Message sent to Season Ticket Holders from Kevin Lowe

[KlingonHockey]

The return on Pronger was crap then, it's some censored phrase now. The points Rage brings up rang true when the deal was announced.

$6.5 million for one of the best defenseman (Lidstrom, Neidermayer, Pronger are in a class of their own) in the NHL with four years left on his deal. By the fourth year he'll still likely be in the prime of his career, maybe seeing a *bit* of a downswing. He was the best asset available in the NHL. The one you could unquestionably say, "this is going to make my team a helluva lot better." Thirty minutes per game, played in every situation, at the highest caliber you could hope those minutes to be played at.

The conditional 1st round pick really adds insult to injury. That's the best Lowe could negotiate? Reminds me of the incompetent guy in that South Park episode who ends up agreeing to provide missiles, weapons, and eventually a free escape for the kids during their standoff to protect some baby cows from slaughter.

FBI Agent: They're coming out now?
Negotiator: Yes, all we need to do in return is get a cattle transporting semi-truck that will take the boys and the cattle to Denver international airport where we will have a fully gassed airplane waiting to take them all to Mexico... and they want the guy that plays Mr. Worf on Star Trek to drive the truck in full makeup.
Agent: All right, that does it. You are in fact the worst negotiator I have ever seen in action.
Negotiator: All right all right, I'll give you that - but in return I want 3 staples.
Agent: Get out of here!

20 games of an injury prone Forsberg nearly got better return than 4 years of Pronger.

The least we should have gotten was a guy like Phaneuf. Even a guy with that kind of pedigree is only going to be as good as Pronger after he hits UFA. We'll be lucky if Smid is a #2 guy in this league and that'll likely only be a comfortable role for him, and the team he's playing for if they hope to be a contender, when he's 26 anyway.

Lupul? A promising sniper with MANY question marks. Chosen over Getzlaf because of poor judgment and/or nepotism. If Lowe wanted Getzlaf, Burke said no, and Lowe simply acquiesced that doesn't flatter our GM either.

A first round pick, conditional first rounder, 2nd round pick? At least he got those 3 staples.

 

[The Rage]

If he didn't care wouldn't he have signed here?

I was reffering to Smyth. If getting UFAs to sign is such a big deal, maybe we should keep the ones we have.

 

[The Rage]

Thank you for this post. There's been a lot of revisionist history here, conspiracy theories, and accusations.

No need for anything other than the truth. 15 years since we finished better than 6th in the conference. The worst season in 10 years this year. Ryan Smyth gone. No revision necessary.

 

[PDO]

The return on Pronger was crap then, it's some censored phrase now. The points Rage brings up rang true when the deal was announced.

$6.5 million for one of the best defenseman (Lidstrom, Neidermayer, Pronger are in a class of their own) in the NHL with four years left on his deal. By the fourth year he'll still likely be in the prime of his career, maybe seeing a *bit* of a downswing. He was the best asset available in the NHL. The one you could unquestionably say, "this is going to make my team a helluva lot better." Thirty minutes per game, played in every situation, at the highest caliber you could hope those minutes to be played at.

The conditional 1st round pick really adds insult to injury. That's the best Lowe could negotiate? Reminds me of the incompetent guy in that South Park episode who ends up agreeing to provide missiles, weapons, and eventually a free escape for the kids during their standoff to protect some baby cows from slaughter.



20 games of an injury prone Forsberg nearly got better return than 4 years of Pronger.

The least we should have gotten was a guy like Phaneuf. Even a guy with that kind of pedigree is only going to be as good as Pronger after he hits UFA. We'll be lucky if Smid is a #2 guy in this league and that'll likely only be a comfortable role for him, and the team he's playing for if they hope to be a contender, when he's 26 anyway.

Lupul? A promising sniper with MANY question marks. Chosen over Getzlaf because of poor judgment and/or nepotism. If Lowe wanted Getzlaf, Burke said no, and Lowe simply acquiesced that doesn't flatter our GM either.

A first round pick, conditional first rounder, 2nd round pick? At least he got those 3 staples.

Great post, I'd say the only disagreement I could possibly have is that the return was crap in the summer, and now it's steaming crap..

 

[OYLer]

Wow, I get pretty sick of reading all the whiners post their revisionist, hindsight-filled, fact bending ideas. Rage, your arguments are simplistic to say the least. Lets take a look at what you guys are arguing... ?

I was hoping that your second post on the same page would be the Opus part of your Magnus. Regrettably it was Magnus squared (itself times 2).

Some music perhaps to stimulate the cerebral cortex.

 

[The Rage]

How can you write this while at the same time trying to convince us that a) you don't want them to spend money just for the sake of spending money, and b) you want the team to make smart decisions? You very clearly want the team to be at or above the median league payroll, period.

If you see the UFA deals I have suggested, they have been modest. I mean look at Eaton. He isn't Chara. I just want a reasonable effort. Anything more is gravy. Anything less is pathetic.

 

[Gusher]

I was reffering to Smyth. If getting UFAs to sign is such a big deal, maybe we should keep the ones we have.

I know you were referring to Smyth. So was I. It's hard to keep the UFA's you have if they don't take a reasonable contract offer.

 

[The Rage]

I just don't see the Oil core being anywhere near that good.

Who's fault is that anyway? There has to be some rhyme, some reason for what we see now. It's not all fate or circumstance. Somebody messed up somewhere along the line

 

[Gusher]

Rage,

Another thing I don't understand that you mentioned in a post back a page or two. Why is Lupul's contract so ridiculous?

$1.5 million is brutal for a 23-year-old who scored 28 goals last season? Yes, he struggled this season but he'll be an improved player next season. Either way, $1.5 million for a 23-year-old player with great potential isn't all that much in today's NHL.

 

[PDO]

I think several small communist governments should call up EIG for some lessons.

It's shocking how quickly they spun the public opinion of Ryan Smyth being traded.

 

[PDO]

Rage,

Another thing I don't understand that you mentioned in a post back a page or two. Why is Lupul's contract so ridiculous?

$1.5 million is brutal for a 23-year-old who scored 28 goals last season? Yes, he struggled this season but he'll be an improved player next season. Either way, $1.5 million for a 23-year-old player with great potential isn't all that much in today's NHL.

And $2.5 next year and $2.9 the year after for a $2.3 cap hit every year.

Terrible contract for a guy who had accomplished nothing significant in the NHL. Scoring 30 goals with butter minutes and strong linemates is nothing to close to what should warrant that big of a contract.

 

[Gusher]

Who's fault is that anyway? There has to be some rhyme, some reason for what we see now. It's not all fate or circumstance. Somebody messed up somewhere along the line

The core isn't that great because before the lockout Lowe's hands were always tied. He lost guys like Weight and Guerin because of money.

The new CBA comes, Lowe goes out and lands Pronger and Peca. Absolutely great trades at the time. Peca leaves for Free Agency and Pronger demands a trade. Hard to keep any sort of core players when stuff like that happens.

Now, Smyth thinks he's Jarome Iginla-esk and deserves $6million a season and won't sign for $5.4. Hard to keep a guy like that around when he's not worth that kind of cash.

The core has slowly been depelted because of money, because of some mistakes Lowe has made and because of some mistakes some players have made as well. Lowe's mistakes are minimal, IMO, in all this mess.

 

[The Rage]

Rage,

Another thing I don't understand that you mentioned in a post back a page or two. Why is Lupul's contract so ridiculous?

$1.5 million is brutal for a 23-year-old who scored 28 goals last season? Yes, he struggled this season but he'll be an improved player next season. Either way, $1.5 million for a 23-year-old player with great potential isn't all that much in today's NHL.

How many points does he have? What is his +/-? And how much is he being paid next year? Answer those questions and you'll know why he will be one of the most overpaid players in the league next year unless something dramatic happens. Here's to hoping something dramatic happens .

 

[The Rage]

The core isn't that great because before the lockout Lowe's hands were always tied. He lost guys like Weight and Guerin because of money.

The new CBA comes, Lowe goes out and lands Pronger and Peca. Absolutely great trades at the time. Peca leaves for Free Agency and Pronger demands a trade. Hard to keep any sort of core players when stuff like that happens.

Now, Smyth thinks he's Jarome Iginla-esk and deserves $6million a season and won't sign for $5.4. Hard to keep a guy like that around when he's not worth that kind of cash.

The core has slowly been depelted because of money, because of some mistakes Lowe has made and because of some mistakes some players have made as well. Lowe's mistakes are minimal, IMO, in all this mess.

Yeah, sucks to be Kevin Lowe. Something is always going against him.

 

[Gusher]

And $2.5 next year and $2.9 the year after for a $2.3 cap hit every year.

Terrible contract for a guy who had accomplished nothing significant in the NHL. Scoring 30 goals with butter minutes and strong linemates is nothing to close to what should warrant that big of a contract.

Next season when he's back to getting 30 goals a season $2.5 will be very reasonable.

He scored all of his goals because of strong linemates and butter minutes? Hmmm, that sounds like someone that the Oilers just traded. What are your thoughts on that I wonder.

 

[PDO]

Next season when he's back to getting 30 goals a season $2.5 will be very reasonable.

He scored all of his goals because of strong linemates and butter minutes? Hmmm, that sounds like someone that the Oilers just traded. What are your thoughts on that I wonder.

1) Ryan Smyth played tough minutes.
2) Ryan Smyth was forced to play with some scrub by the name of Joffrey Lupul for large portions of the season.
3) Ryan Smyth made his linemates better.
4) You just compared Ryan Smyth to Joffrey Lupul.

 

[Gusher]

How many points does he have? What is his +/-? And how much is he being paid next year? Answer those questions and you'll know why he will be one of the most overpaid players in the league next year unless something dramatic happens. Here's to hoping something dramatic happens .

I know how many points he has. I know his +/-. The guy has had a very tough time adjusting to life in his hometown as an Oiler. He'll be better next season.

I'd have a tough time too playing for the Oilers if I was a hometown kid and people expect 50 goals from me at the age of 23. Then rip me apart when I have a rough season. It's brutal how bad some of the fans are getting in this city.

 

[PDO]

I know how many points he has. I know his +/-. The guy has had a very tough time adjusting to life in his hometown as an Oiler. He'll be better next season.

Well I sure hope he can't be worse.

 

[Gusher]

1) Ryan Smyth played tough minutes.
2) Ryan Smyth was forced to play with some scrub by the name of Joffrey Lupul for large portions of the season.
3) Ryan Smyth made his linemates better.
4) You just compared Ryan Smyth to Joffrey Lupul.

No I didn't. I compared you saying Lupul played butter minutes and had strong linemates and that was the reasoning for Lupul getting 28 goals TO Smyth playing butter minutes and playing with strong linemates for getting 90% of the points he gets.

Where did Lupul play for most of the season? Oh right, on the 3rd line. How he's expected to perform there is laughable.

 

[PDO]

No I didn't. I compared you saying Lupul played butter minutes and had strong linemates and that was the reasoning for Lupul getting 28 goals TO Smyth playing butter minutes and playing with strong linemates for getting 90% of the points he gets.

Where did Lupul play for most of the season? Oh right, on the 3rd line. How he's expected to perform there is laughable.

Smyth doesn't play butter minutes. Where the hell are you getting this idea from? Smyth also doesn't play with linemates light years ahead of him like Lupul was able to in Anaheim.

Lupul played on EVERY line. He spent time with 94 and 10? Sucked. What about when he played with 71 and 83? Sucked. Maybe if we tried him with 14 and 16.. wait, he sucked with them to. With 19? Sucked.

He doesn't have any excuses. He played butter minutes and had strong linemates - it didn't matter. He got first unit PP time - didn't matter. He was given every opportunity in the world and never once took the bull by the horns.

How many goals did he score this year on clean shots? With that "amazing" shot of his?

3.

 

[Gunner8811]

Next season when he's back to getting 30 goals a season $2.5 will be very reasonable.

He scored all of his goals because of strong linemates and butter minutes? Hmmm, that sounds like someone that the Oilers just traded. What are your thoughts on that I wonder.

Butter minutes for Smyth? youve got to be joking he went against the top line and top Dman pairing every night. You have no idea what your talking about here.

 

[Gusher]

Smyth doesn't play butter minutes. Where the hell are you getting this idea from? Smyth also doesn't play with linemates light years ahead of him like Lupul was able to in Anaheim.

Lupul played on EVERY line. He spent time with 94 and 10? Sucked. What about when he played with 71 and 83? Sucked. Maybe if we tried him with 14 and 16.. wait, he sucked with them to. With 19? Sucked.

He doesn't have any excuses. He played butter minutes and had strong linemates - it didn't matter. He got first unit PP time - didn't matter. He was given every opportunity in the world and never once took the bull by the horns.

How many goals did he score this year on clean shots? With that "amazing" shot of his?

3.

He's having a rough season, tons of players go through this when they are still learning the game. Specially when going to a new team at a young age.

Smyth played "butter minutes". He played lots on the PowerPlay which would be classified as "butter minutes". I think "butter minutes" is a bad term. Can't we just say easy minutes? Anyways, Smyth has benefitted from playing lots of minutes on the PowerPlay and playing with guys like Hemsky and Horcoff over the past couple seasons.

 

[Gunner8811]

No I didn't. I compared you saying Lupul played butter minutes and had strong linemates and that was the reasoning for Lupul getting 28 goals TO Smyth playing butter minutes and playing with strong linemates for getting 90% of the points he gets.

Where did Lupul play for most of the season? Oh right, on the 3rd line. How he's expected to perform there is laughable.

Lupul wa given every chance to succeed here. He played with every line and was on the 1st PP unit from time to time. He showed nothing. A rough year yes.

 

[Gusher]

Butter minutes for Smyth? youve got to be joking he went against the top line and top Dman pairing every night. You have no idea what your talking about here.

I'm not saying all the minutes Smyth played were easy minutes. I'm saying lots of them were. All the PowerPlay time are easy minutes and that's where he gets lots of his points from.

I'm not a fool, I think I know what kind of player Smyth is and what situations he plays in. I'm just saying that Smyth was rewarded for some of his linemates and minutes he played. Just like Lupul was said to have been rewarded with in Anaheim.

 

[Replacement*]

Wow, I get pretty sick of reading all the whiners post their revisionist, hindsight-filled, fact bending ideas. Rage, your arguments are simplistic to say the least. Lets take a look at what you guys are arguing.

So does a post like this prefaced like this signal your omniscient objectivity or that you're just being reactive? Your call.

To begin with, Lowe had a long drawn out affair once already with the Comrie fiasco. Comrie was demanding more money as a RFA, and Lowe chose to play hardball with him seeing as how Comrie had held the team ransom on his first contract. Comrie pouted and so it became clear he would not play for the team again. Lowe showed more than enough patience and guts in letting Comrie rot for as long as need be in order for him to get the best deal possible. After months of waiting however, it was pretty clear that Comrie's value wasn't increasing the longer he sat out. In fact, it probably went down. And that's why, after months of trying to get the best deal possible, the best other teams were offering were draft picks and prospects. Clearly, we did not get full value on Comrie. A 1st, 3rd and Woywitka were not an equal return for a young player who had already scored 30 goals, but it was the best deal available. No one was offering a similarly talented youngster in return. Add to this that Lowe had a lot of pressure on him to deal Comrie and get a return for him.

You forget to mention that the club, and Lowe had singled out Comrie for a subpar effort in a series they stated they should have won. Not only did that publically aired statement steam Comrie but it deflated value if he later needed to be dealt. Lowe then much later introduced an unprecedented gambit of his own spurious making that Comrie would have to pay out of his contract if he wanted to be traded citing that he couldn't get fair value in trade.... Consider how this move shot across the NHLPA bow.

Fast forward 3 years later, and Pronger, the guy Lowe was planning on building a team around that would challenge for the cup starts saying that he might not be happy in Edmonton. Lowe hopes that the cup run will change his mind and they agree to discuss it in the offseason. Days after losing to Carolina, Lowe and Pronger briefly bring up the situation, and again Pronger agrees to discuss the matter with Lowe later. Pronger then leaves with his family on holiday and leaks to the media that he wishes to leave Edmonton. This comes as a shock to Lowe, as during their last discussion Pronger had not revealed he had come to such an absolute decision. On this same day, Florida trades Luongo to Vancouver for Bertuzzi. Now, where some you st*pid f***s get off thinking that somewhere in there, Lowe should have traded for Luongo I have no idea. Was he supposed to have traded Pronger before even having discussed what his decision was going to be? Was Lowe somehow supposed to have known that Pronger was going to be an ass and leak his decision to the media, thereby lowering his trade value? I suppose this is where PunjabiOil and his mystical eastern powers of knowing the future would have come in handy.

It did happen on the same day. But Lowe didn't believe it and downplayed it.

http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/story.html?id=dc45c90a-d924-42d8-8b2e-e6572e19d7e0&k=97685

Had Lowe had the proper conversations with his prime asset in advance (who he had known had considered wanting out of his contract for much of the season) and picked up the phone and called Florida that day you don't think Luongo was available? That Florida would RATHER have Prongs than BERT? Not saying we should have gone for Luongo, just belaboring the point.

I suppose had Luongo not been traded that same day, and Lowe had had some time to work with, trading for him could have been a possibility. But now he was left with having to move a guy who made it publicly known he wasn't going to return. Already at a disadvantage because of Pronger's move, he decided that he didn't want a Comrie situation all over again. I don't know why some of you think that Pronger would have played next season. I don't think he would have shown up in Edmonton. True, he had a contract, but that didn't stop Yashin from doing the same thing a few years prior. There was also the possibility of his hold-out lowering his value even more, such as in the Comrie case. Even if he did show up, it would have been a big distraction to the team and it could have affected Pronger's performance, also leading to lower value.

Prongers value was NOT going to erode like Comries and theres no comparing the too. Pronger was the best asset known to be on the block and for excellent price.

Heres a game.

What longterm contracted player all summer represented better value in the capped environment? Anybody better? Anybody close?

Lowe also felt it would be best to trade him sooner than later, as those teams that were looking for a top defenceman would soon be signing UFAs, and that pool of interested teams would shrink. Unfortunately, (and this is the part Rage seems unable to comprehend) no one was offering a superstar in trade for Pronger. Hell, no one was even offering a star.

This part is called being played.

It was widely reported that Florida was not willing to part with Horton and Bouwmeester. Likewise, Toronto felt Steen and Kaberle were too steep a price. Is that information getting through Rage? Kaberle and Steen. There were no teams offering Hossa or any of the other stars you mentioned. And nobody really cares what you "think" may have been offered, since its all speculation and clearly not true. If any teams had offered a player of Hossa-like quality, rest assured Lowe would have been interested.

So do teams in your mind just offer their best assets on a platter or is this the START point of playing off teams against each other in SERIOUS negotiation. Klowe had the best current asset in the league, one that had undisputedly taken us to game 7 of the finals and by rights was arguably playoff MVP. The proverbial ace in the deck. Yet this bargaining never got anywhere close to endgame. You don't believe he could've hard bargained to better effect?

And really, you can't blame teams for this. Defencemen like Chara and Jovanovski were going to be available as UFAs shortly. And while they may have ended up costing more money-wise, you didn't need to give up any players to acquire them.

But Chara cost more capspace for significantly less value.

Thus Lowe was asking teams for a good young forward and defenceman. Anaheim undoubtedly offered the best package as Lowe finalized they trade with them, despite the fact that they were in the same conference. Lowe undoubtedly would have preferred moving him to the east. Finally, in response to dumb remarks like Lowe traded Pronger for "scrubs" because he didn't want to spend money... then why would he offer Chara $7 million?

AFAIRC this is unconfirmed.