Message sent to Season Ticket Holders from Kevin Lowe

[Gusher]

You cannot seriously tell me that Pronger coming off the Stanley Cup finals had less value than Bertuzzi coming off a total crapshoot of a season with only one year left on his contract to boot.

If we really wanted Luongo and Lowe had moved fast enough, he would be an Oiler today. I have very little doubt about that. That's the thing with being a GM, I think we learned the hard way, the day the season is over ... the season is REALLY over. The next day you have to operate like you're starting again from ground zero. While we were stilling thinking about the Cup finals, our rivals, Calgary and Vancouver were already working on deals/targeting players to improve their rosters. And they did just that. I am still wowwed by the fact that Vancouver got Luongo for what they did and Calgary the same for Tanguay. Complete highway robbery.

Florida had just traded away their best player on the day Pronger demanded a trade. I doubt they want to trade away more of the future in a deal trying to land Pronger. They didn't give up Bouwmeester and Horton because they would be left high and dry with anything left on the team for the future. Florida wasn't in the position to trade for a guy like Pronger and expect the team to win the Cup. They would have had to make tons of more moves for them to be Cup contenders. They are still in rebuilding mode.

Bertuzzi having 71 points in 82 games on a mediocre Canucks team last season wasn't exactly a "crapshoot of a season" either.

And again, what makes you think Lowe wanted Luongo? Lowe was confident with Roloson, especially after the display Roloson showed in the Playoffs. Just because you wanted Luongo doesn't mean Lowe did. Even I always wanted Luongo here but just because he's not I don't blame Lowe for him going to Vancouver.

 

[Matts]

Flyers D

They're always talking about how they'd target Timmonen this summer because they also have his brother in the org. But with Hatcher's contract and Hatcher and Pitkanen and Coburn and Picard and Kukkonen...are they really gonna afford to have all those guys or do they want to put that much money into their D?

If they sign Kimmo then I'd imagine they'll deal Joni. I've read what I could about why they possibly might have soured on him and apparently he's a hard guy to deal with in terms of coachability. I can see why the Oilers would like him though because they got a lot out of Janne when they took him from the Flyers and when you see the way Joni passes and how easy he lugs the puck from his own end over the other team's blue, well the Oilers covet that like a bald man covet's Fabio's mane.

 

[alanschu]

It's not even using hindsight - for most, it was a bad deal then. Today the beliefs are just being confirmed.

Oh come on, you had no problems for picking up Lupul and Smid and the draft picks when it happened. IIRC, you commented that it was the best way to go about building the team.

 

[Yanner39]

That's what he's getting paid millions to do - make the tough decisions. Would a Bobby Clarke cave into the players' wants like Pronger did (trade him immediately after the request)? Ottawa model for Yashin?

Lowe showed a lack of guts to challenge Pronger or overvalued the GAB (a term created by Matts)

Meh, Lupul has a solid 30-35 goal season and were not even talking about this. The fact is that if Lowe sits on Pronger too long, in a salary cap environment, he also runs the risk that the other teams will fill their rosters, narrowing the teams that have enough cap space to trade for Pronger. The fact that Pronger was making $6.25 a season doesn't make things easier for Lowe.

I'm not happy with what Lowe has done this season, but he was put in a tight spot with the Pronger situation. I don't know if any other GMs would have handled things differently. See the problem is that we get caught up reading Eklund and what "potentially" Lowe could have gotten for Pronger. Half of these so-called rumours probably were never true.

It's funny you mentioned Yashin. When the Sens traded Yashin, they got potential. They got Redden, Spezza and Muckalt. Muckalt went how many games without scoring? Redden and Spezza were young and they were simply potential. The deal worked out amazingly for Ottawa.

How do we know that Lupul and Spezza won't turn into pretty good players themselves?

 

[PDO]

Meh, Lupul has a solid 30-35 goal season and were not even talking about this. The fact is that if Lowe sits on Pronger too long, in a salary cap environment, he also runs the risk that the other teams will fill their rosters, narrowing the teams that have enough cap space to trade for Pronger. The fact that Pronger was making $6.25 a season doesn't make things easier for Lowe.

I'm not happy with what Lowe has done this season, but he was put in a tight spot with the Pronger situation. I don't know if any other GMs would have handled things differently. See the problem is that we get caught up reading Eklund and what "potentially" Lowe could have gotten for Pronger. Half of these so-called rumours probably were never true.

It's funny you mentioned Yashin. When the Sens traded Yashin, they got potential. They got Redden, Spezza and Muckalt. Muckalt went how many games without scoring? Redden and Spezza were young and they were simply potential. The deal worked out amazingly for Ottawa.

How do we know that Lupul and Spezza won't turn into pretty good players themselves?

I hate to call you out, Yanner, but it was Chara, not Redden, and Spezza had a pedigree that Lupul could only dream of .

As for sitting on Pronger narrowing the gap of teams because of the cap - couldn't the Oilers take salary back in the trade? In fact, shouldn't they have taken salary back in the trade?

 

[hemmingway]

I hate to call you out, Yanner, but it was Chara, not Redden, and Spezza had a pedigree that Lupul could only dream of .

As for sitting on Pronger narrowing the gap of teams because of the cap - couldn't the Oilers take salary back in the trade?

Yes

In fact, shouldn't they have taken salary back in the trade?

Only if it makes the team better. Take a look at the Thorton - Sturm, Stuart, and Primeau deal. The B's took on salary - but losing an impact player like Thorton or Pronger is going to make the team weaker unless an impact player is coming in return.

I'm possibly in the minority here - but IMO the return on the Pronger deal can't be evaluated until Edmonton either drafts, or trades the picks (same with the Smyth deal)

Even if this year is a weak draft year, it's shaping up to be better than 1999, where Havlat went 26th, and Leopold went 44th. There are quality NHL'ers in each draft, and judging by the Oilers recent graduates from prospect status, they're getting better at finding them.

 

[Yanner39]

I hate to call you out, Yanner, but it was Chara, not Redden, and Spezza had a pedigree that Lupul could only dream of .

As for sitting on Pronger narrowing the gap of teams because of the cap - couldn't the Oilers take salary back in the trade? In fact, shouldn't they have taken salary back in the trade?

Ouch! I stand corrected. The Sens got Redden for Berard. Thanks PDO.

Yep that's a good point. But I'll go back to saying that maybe other teams didn't want to move a roster player. Maybe 29 GMs were content to just waiting until Lowe lowered his cost. I know alot of posters don't buy into the "dealing from a position of weakness" situation and that's fine.

But I think after a positive spring, Lowe didn't want this negative to linger all summer.

 

[Nols]

It's not great, but hardly a failure a la the Pronger deal

It's not even using hindsight - for most, it was a bad deal then. Today the beliefs are just being confirmed.

Funny you should say that. I guess everyone's hindsight is 20/20:

I like this deal

A freaking 22 year old who puts up 53 points (28 goals - i.e. sniper) plus a great playoffs (9 goals?). All playing on the 3rd line and only his 2nd NHL season. He was the 7th overall pick guys. He has tremendous upside to him

Smyth Lupul Hemsky is a possible line since he can play C

Smid is a number 9 overall pick, who put up 28 points in the AHL as a 19 year old. Of course AHL doesn't mean much (see Lynch), but he was drafted that high on his defensive play.

1st and 2nd rounder - even if they are high draft picks, there are decent prospects in the bottom 10 (Cogliano, Schremp). Or you can use it as trade bait (Minnesota - Demitra).

I love this deal. Kudos Lowe

Anyways, I still wouldn't write the Pronger trade off yet. It's far from a failure yet. There are still draft picks to be made and a Lupul and a Smid to develop.

 

[Gunner8811]

Something just isnt right when the GM has to send out letters to the ticket holders to explain some of the actions and movements he's made while doing his job. If it's done right there shouldnt be any questions that need answering that he already hasnt answered 100 times in the media. Looks to me like he's fearfull of not selling any tickets next year.
Heres hoping he doesnt have to send out another letter after the summer stating all the offers that he made to UFA's but they just didnt want to come here.

 

[McJadeddog]

Anyways, I still wouldn't write the Pronger trade off yet. It's far from a failure yet. There are still draft picks to be made and a Lupul and a Smid to develop.

yeah we're still 2-3 years away at the earliest from being able to tell if we did well on the pronger trade.... smid might become a poor mans timonen one day, but that day is a long, long way off.... lupul might become a consistant 25 goal scorer, but thats probably 2-3 years away as well.... and the draft picks are likely 4-6 years away from being legit members of this team (if they ever pan out that is)

i think smid is going to be a pretty darn good player one day, might have a career similar to brewers..... lupul im not so sure about, was last year in anaheim just a fluke? or was this year the anomaly? i suppose we might find out next year.... as for the picks, i dont expect too much from them at all, given that they will be such late picks

 

[Replacement*]

Something just isnt right when the GM has to send out letters to the ticket holders to explain some of the actions and movements he's made while doing his job. If it's done right there shouldnt be any questions that need answering that he already hasnt answered 100 times in the media. Looks to me like he's fearfull of not selling any tickets next year.
Heres hoping he doesnt have to send out another letter after the summer stating all the offers that he made to UFA's but they just didnt want to come here.

Yep, Theres something in it thats unexplainable. Inexplicable.

When you've spent years telling your fan base:

"Thank you for suffering through these trying years, things will be different post CBA, we promise, we will be in a position to bid for and retain the services of our star players"

...

and this is promptly followed by an exodus of post CBA departures including stars. It becomes hard to explain in any carefully scripted message and lacks sincerity or credibility.

It rings empty, hollow.

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Schitzo]

Has anyone pointed out yet that last summer, Luongo was a year from being a UFA, and there were major concerns about getting him signed? He was feuding with management in Florida and seemed like he was going to be hard to deal with.

What would the outcry look like if we landed Luongo and couldn't come to terms with him? By the end of this season, we'd be no Pronger, no Luongo, no starting goalie at all (since Roli would go elsewhere).

 

[OYLer]

Getting so tired of not being able to find a fine thing to wear...

It's an interesting game of chicken. I know my roommate and I were on the season ticket waiting list, and if they become available, there's a good chance we'll get them. If fans wait to hold back on renewals, they may lose their spot. As with most things, it's a gamble. If you wait, and Lowe makes fantastic moves in the offseason, then you are suddenly at the end of the season ticket waiting list, rather than getting preemptive access to things like playoff tickets and next year's season tickets.

Oh, I'm thinking it's not the diehard fans with their twenty years of senority that will be giving up the good seats. Who then might take a disappearing powder? Those that have gobs of disposable income will probably hang-in taking a wait-and-see posture. It's those Jane & Johnny come-lately fans who like to be associated with winners, and/or who liked supporting recognizable and likeable players, they will be the ones to back-away from ticket increases of 28% over just 2 years. Paying the eighth hishest ticket price in the NHL is fine if your supporting a winner with players you identify with but draft picks and discount plan gums the oil.

Says what you will but Georges Laraque and Ryan Smith as players other teams value more, they were two of the biggest fan favourites in E-Town. Once so very popular, but now if I own one of their jerseys do I feel comfortable continuing to wear them to Oilers' games. What with the recent negativity and those two going head to hin in the eastern conference?

Much less, can I sport, my Chimera coat of arms, that once proud hometown squire's tunic purchased when an Oilers' young lion, sadly then traded as a goat, but recently vilified to serpent status by MacT's hissing. As well, alas, my Dopita collectors silks must remain deeply mothballed. Some ever vigilant usher might suggest I am inciting, the Jock Supporters of MacT and/or Klowe towards Mayhem, by displaying these controversial jerseys. (of course, hem... by May the Oilers' brass will be working on their Coppertone tans, beached at some resort, as de-stressing as need be.

Comrie's polyester, with nylons to go, I just did the discreet, name & number rip & strip and then just re-teased-in the frayed ends. And it's a good thing I just did the velco conversion to the Cleary crest disclaimers. Next I tried the Adam Oates sew-on using that same now threadbare sweater. A darn good thing I did too. Even used expensive golden thread , middle-fingering those time-consuming cross-stitches, but just didn't have enough energy to finish. Even as we speak, the last of the fancy detailed hand-to-eye needlework is being completed.

Pronger's ninth month still birth, in the Oilers' Away Whites, I wish I could have had it Signed, Sealed, (and) Delivered before he was yours, Ducks' fans. Must have left steady Stevie to Wonder what hair-undershirt Mrs. Pronger packed for Chrisy to do penance in for their timely Mexican Get-a-way.

I could try to Crazy Glue, a minus operations symbol, on the front of my most favoured number 94 Home Jersey to make it a trendy "-94" until I'm ushered out into the cold. Ah! to Hell with it, I'll summon from the depth of that damnable fiery closet of my despair, that cursed old Satan de-Vestment!

 

[Replacement*]

Oh, I'm thinking it's not the diehard fans with their twenty senority that will giving up the good seats. Those that have gobs of disposable income will probably hang-in taking a wait-and-see posture. It's those Jane & Johnny come-lately fans who like to be associated with winners and/or who liked supporting recognizable and likeable players.

Says what you will but Georges Laraque and Ryan Smith as players other teams value, they were two of the big fan favourites. Once so very popular, but if I own one of their jerseys do I feel comfortable continuing to wear those jerseys. What with the recent negativity?

Much less, can I sport, my Chimera coat of arms, that once proud hometown squire's tunic purchased when an Oilers' young lion, sadly then traded as a goat, but recently vilified to serpent status by MacT's hissing. As well, alas, my Dopita collectors silks must remain deeply mothballed. Some ever vigilant usher might suggest I am inciting, the Jock Supporters or MacT or Klowe towards Mayhem, by displaying these controversial jerseys. (of course, hem... by May the Oilers' brass will be working on their Coppertone tans, beached at some resort, as de-stressing as need be.

Comrie's polyester, with nylons to go, I just did the discreet, name & number rip & strip and then just re-teased-in the frayed ends. And it's a good thing I just did the velco conversion to the Cleary crest disclaimers. Next I tried the Adam Oates sew-on using that same now threadbare sweater. A darn good thing I did too. Even used expensive golden thread and used those time-consuming cross-stitches, but just didn't have enough energy to finish. Even as we speak, the last of the fancy detailed hand-to-eye needlework is being completed.

Pronger's ninth month still birth, in the Oilers' Away Whites, I wish I could have had it Signed, Sealed, (and) Delivered before he was yours, Ducks' fans. Must have left steady Stevie to Wonder what hair-undershirt Mrs. Pronger packed for Chrisy for their Mexican Get-a-way.

I could try to Crazy Glue a minus operations symbol in front of my most favoured number 94 Home Jersey to make it a trendy "-94" until I'm ushered out. Ah! to Hell with it, I'll summon from the depth of that damnable fiery closet of despair my Satan de-Vestment!

Enjoyed that.

I think my non-name du jour, REPLACEMENT with a question mark where the # is would at this point elicit some chuckles and save your threadbare fingers and knuckles further pained stitching.

REPLACEMENT

_____ ? _____

Theres a method to my madness.

 

[Soundwave]

Luongo's problems in Florida was that they weren't committed to building a winner.

He certainly would have accepted a trade to a team that just made the Stanley Cup finals.

I've also heard his favorite team growing up in the late 80s/early 90s was the Edmonton Oilers to boot. What's done is done though, still I can't say I'm happy with missing out on that gravy train.

We'll see what Lowe does this summer.

 

[Magnus]

Wow, I get pretty sick of reading all the whiners post their revisionist, hindsight-filled, fact bending ideas. Rage, your arguments are simplistic to say the least. Lets take a look at what you guys are arguing.

To begin with, Lowe had a long drawn out affair once already with the Comrie fiasco. Comrie was demanding more money as a RFA, and Lowe chose to play hardball with him seeing as how Comrie had held the team ransom on his first contract. Comrie pouted and so it became clear he would not play for the team again. Lowe showed more than enough patience and guts in letting Comrie rot for as long as need be in order for him to get the best deal possible. After months of waiting however, it was pretty clear that Comrie's value wasn't increasing the longer he sat out. In fact, it probably went down. And that's why, after months of trying to get the best deal possible, the best other teams were offering were draft picks and prospects. Clearly, we did not get full value on Comrie. A 1st, 3rd and Woywitka were not an equal return for a young player who had already scored 30 goals, but it was the best deal available. No one was offering a similarly talented youngster in return. Add to this that Lowe had a lot of pressure on him to deal Comrie and get a return for him.

Fast forward 3 years later, and Pronger, the guy Lowe was planning on building a team around that would challenge for the cup starts saying that he might not be happy in Edmonton. Lowe hopes that the cup run will change his mind and they agree to discuss it in the offseason. Days after losing to Carolina, Lowe and Pronger briefly bring up the situation, and again Pronger agrees to discuss the matter with Lowe later. Pronger then leaves with his family on holiday and leaks to the media that he wishes to leave Edmonton. This comes as a shock to Lowe, as during their last discussion Pronger had not revealed he had come to such an absolute decision. On this same day, Florida trades Luongo to Vancouver for Bertuzzi. Now, where some you st*pid f***s get off thinking that somewhere in there, Lowe should have traded for Luongo I have no idea. Was he supposed to have traded Pronger before even having discussed what his decision was going to be? Was Lowe somehow supposed to have known that Pronger was going to be an ass and leak his decision to the media, thereby lowering his trade value? I suppose this is where PunjabiOil and his mystical eastern powers of knowing the future would have come in handy.

I suppose had Luongo not been traded that same day, and Lowe had had some time to work with, trading for him could have been a possibility. But now he was left with having to move a guy who made it publicly known he wasn't going to return. Already at a disadvantage because of Pronger's move, he decided that he didn't want a Comrie situation all over again. I don't know why some of you think that Pronger would have played next season. I don't think he would have shown up in Edmonton. True, he had a contract, but that didn't stop Yashin from doing the same thing a few years prior. There was also the possibility of his hold-out lowering his value even more, such as in the Comrie case. Even if he did show up, it would have been a big distraction to the team and it could have affected Pronger's performance, also leading to lower value.

Lowe also felt it would be best to trade him sooner than later, as those teams that were looking for a top defenceman would soon be signing UFAs, and that pool of interested teams would shrink. Unfortunately, (and this is the part Rage seems unable to comprehend) no one was offering a superstar in trade for Pronger. Hell, no one was even offering a star. It was widely reported that Florida was not willing to part with Horton and Bouwmeester. Likewise, Toronto felt Steen and Kaberle were too steep a price. Is that information getting through Rage? Kaberle and Steen. There were no teams offering Hossa or any of the other stars you mentioned. And nobody really cares what you "think" may have been offered, since its all speculation and clearly not true. If any teams had offered a player of Hossa-like quality, rest assured Lowe would have been interested. And really, you can't blame teams for this. Defencemen like Chara and Jovanovski were going to be available as UFAs shortly. And while they may have ended up costing more money-wise, you didn't need to give up any players to acquire them.

Thus Lowe was asking teams for a good young forward and defenceman. Anaheim undoubtedly offered the best package as Lowe finalized they trade with them, despite the fact that they were in the same conference. Lowe undoubtedly would have preferred moving him to the east. Finally, in response to dumb remarks like Lowe traded Pronger for "scrubs" because he didn't want to spend money... then why would he offer Chara $7 million? Obviously, Chara chose to sign with Boston in the end, but if you don't want to spend, then why even offer that money? What if Chara had agreed? Was Lowe going to say "oops, I didn't mean it"? I guess you can cue the idiot conspiracy theorists now. And yes, Lowe chose to not sign McKee, Kubina or whoever else was available for the money that they eventually did for the same reason he chose not to offer Smyth more. They simply aren't worth that much. If the team is going to pay that much for someone, then its going to be someone who will make a large impact on the team. As for Mark Eaton... is it even necessary to comment on that?

 

[PunjabiOil*]

Oh come on, you had no problems for picking up Lupul and Smid and the draft picks when it happened. If I recall correctly, you commented that it was the best way to go about building the team.

Yeah, but back then I didn't really have a clue about outscoring, PPP/hr, tough minutes, young players being able to contribute to winning games, etc. I also underestimated the value of Pronger.

Plus, I was a big personal fan of Lupul.

My personal feelings (as a fan) are irrelevant at the end of the day. I don't think getting Lupul was a mistake - he still is young and may get better.....but his contract was a mistake, especially when you see Horton getting only 1.1M.

Lowe made a choice to rebuild with the trade....so the right thing would have been to do it properly.

 

[Magnus]

Wow, I get pretty sick of reading all the whiners post their revisionist, hindsight-filled, fact bending ideas. Rage, your arguments are simplistic to say the least. Lets take a look at what you guys are arguing.

To begin with, Lowe had a long drawn out affair once already with the Comrie fiasco. Comrie was demanding more money as a RFA, and Lowe chose to play hardball with him seeing as how Comrie had held the team ransom on his first contract. Comrie pouted and so it became clear he would not play for the team again. Lowe showed more than enough patience and guts in letting Comrie rot for as long as need be in order for him to get the best deal possible. After months of waiting however, it was pretty clear that Comrie's value wasn't increasing the longer he sat out. In fact, it probably went down. And that's why, after months of trying to get the best deal possible, the best other teams were offering were draft picks and prospects. Clearly, we did not get full value on Comrie. A 1st, 3rd and Woywitka were not an equal return for a young player who had already scored 30 goals, but it was the best deal available. No one was offering a similarly talented youngster in return. Add to this that Lowe had a lot of pressure on him to deal Comrie and get a return for him.

Fast forward 3 years later, and Pronger, the guy Lowe was planning on building a team around that would challenge for the cup starts saying that he might not be happy in Edmonton. Lowe hopes that the cup run will change his mind and they agree to discuss it in the offseason. Days after losing to Carolina, Lowe and Pronger briefly bring up the situation, and again Pronger agrees to discuss the matter with Lowe later. Pronger then leaves with his family on holiday and leaks to the media that he wishes to leave Edmonton. This comes as a shock to Lowe, as during their last discussion Pronger had not revealed he had come to such an absolute decision. On this same day, Florida trades Luongo to Vancouver for Bertuzzi. Now, where some you st*pid f***s get off thinking that somewhere in there, Lowe should have traded for Luongo I have no idea. Was he supposed to have traded Pronger before even having discussed what his decision was going to be? Was Lowe somehow supposed to have known that Pronger was going to be an ass and leak his decision to the media, thereby lowering his trade value? I suppose this is where PunjabiOil and his mystical eastern powers of knowing the future would have come in handy.

I suppose had Luongo not been traded that same day, and Lowe had had some time to work with, trading for him could have been a possibility. But now he was left with having to move a guy who made it publicly known he wasn't going to return. Already at a disadvantage because of Pronger's move, he decided that he didn't want a Comrie situation all over again. I don't know why some of you think that Pronger would have played next season. I don't think he would have shown up in Edmonton. True, he had a contract, but that didn't stop Yashin from doing the same thing a few years prior. There was also the possibility of his hold-out lowering his value even more, such as in the Comrie case. Even if he did show up, it would have been a big distraction to the team and it could have affected Pronger's performance, also leading to lower value.

Lowe also felt it would be best to trade him sooner than later, as those teams that were looking for a top defenceman would soon be signing UFAs, and that pool of interested teams would shrink. Unfortunately, (and this is the part Rage seems unable to comprehend) no one was offering a superstar in trade for Pronger. Hell, no one was even offering a star. It was widely reported that Florida was not willing to part with Horton and Bouwmeester. Likewise, Toronto felt Steen and Kaberle were too steep a price. Is that information getting through Rage? Kaberle and Steen. There were no teams offering Hossa or any of the other stars you mentioned. And nobody really cares what you "think" may have been offered, since its all speculation and clearly not true. If any teams had offered a player of Hossa-like quality, rest assured Lowe would have been interested. And really, you can't blame teams for this. Defencemen like Chara and Jovanovski were going to be available as UFAs shortly. And while they may have ended up costing more money-wise, you didn't need to give up any players to acquire them.

Thus Lowe was asking teams for a good young forward and defenceman. Anaheim undoubtedly offered the best package as Lowe finalized they trade with them, despite the fact that they were in the same conference. Lowe undoubtedly would have preferred moving him to the east. Finally, in response to dumb remarks like Lowe traded Pronger for "scrubs" because he didn't want to spend money... then why would he offer Chara $7 million? Obviously, Chara chose to sign with Boston in the end, but if you don't want to spend, then why even offer that money? What if Chara had agreed? Was Lowe going to say "oops, I didn't mean it"? I guess you can cue the idiot conspiracy theorists now. And yes, Lowe chose to not sign McKee, Kubina or whoever else was available for the money that they eventually did for the same reason he chose not to offer Smyth more. They simply aren't worth that much. If the team is going to pay that much for someone, then its going to be someone who will make a large impact on the team. As for Mark Eaton... is it even necessary to comment on that?

 

[Oilfan2]

Luongo's problems in Florida was that they weren't committed to building a winner.

He certainly would have accepted a trade to a team that just made the Stanley Cup finals.

I've also heard his favorite team growing up in the late 80s/early 90s was the Edmonton Oilers to boot. What's done is done though, still I can't say I'm happy with missing out on that gravy train.

We'll see what Lowe does this summer.

Yeah, we're told he has a plan. Did he come up with it after he offered Smyth $5.4 and he didn't accept or did he have more than one plan?? Hmmm, in Lowe we trust???? Uh Oh..

 

[The Rage]

The CAP went up lots after last season. Pronger was signed in the summer of '05. Pronger was signed at one of the higher rates at the time. Those you mentioned were signed in the summer of '06. Had Pronger been signed in '06 after the run he had in the Playoffs, he would have been getting $7.5 - 8million. The markets were in two different places at the times of the Pronger vs. Chara/Lidstrom/Richards deals.

That's why you can't really compare the two.

Of course. He was underpaid when we needed to trade him, and that made him an attractive option because that same summer guys were signing for a lot more money.

 

[OYLer]

Enjoyed that.

I think my non-name du jour, REPLACEMENT with a question mark where the # is would at this point elicit some chuckles and save your threadbare fingers and knuckles further pained stitching.

REPLACEMENT

_____ ? _____

Theres a method to my madness.

Sorry my edits weren't all done before you read the post.

 

[The Rage]

And if the Oilers would have traded for Crosby, Fleury, Ovechkin and Neidermayer we would win the Cup. NOT every player traded in the NHL had a chance to come to the Oilers first. Get real.

Luongo WAS traded. All the players I mentioned as potential trades were either traded in another deal or had less value than Pronger. Pronger is a superstar signed at a great price. He had huge trade value.

 

[The Rage]

Maybe he should have tried for Crosby? How about Ovechkin?

When other GMs know they have you by the balls, your job just got ten times tougher.

How do they have you by the balls? They have to compete with each other. Enough with this "Why didn't we trade for Crosby" sarcasm. I'm not saying we could have traded scrubs for a superstar. I'm saying we could have traded an undepaid superstar for a regular superstar. Is that really in the realm of fantasy?

 

[GSC]

I'm not sure where the "Lowe is to cheap to win" stuff comes from.

Would trading Pronger and Smyth for current players have made the team better this year? Yes.

Better than 7th or 8th? Maybe, depending on the players.

Is that what you're looking for? Barely making the playoffs, so that a team can get a playoff gate or two, but never winning it all?

Sounds like you should be a Boston fan.

Wow, you terribly underestimate what we could've gotten in return for both of those skaters...

Although you have a point, we can bring in talent but idiots like MacTavish can't coach them worth a ****.

 

[rec28]

Wow, I get pretty sick of reading all the whiners post their revisionist, hindsight-filled, fact bending ideas. Rage, your arguments are simplistic to say the least. Lets take a look at what you guys are arguing.

To begin with, Lowe had a long drawn out affair once already with the Comrie fiasco. Comrie was demanding more money as a RFA, and Lowe chose to play hardball with him seeing as how Comrie had held the team ransom on his first contract. Comrie pouted and so it became clear he would not play for the team again. Lowe showed more than enough patience and guts in letting Comrie rot for as long as need be in order for him to get the best deal possible. After months of waiting however, it was pretty clear that Comrie's value wasn't increasing the longer he sat out. In fact, it probably went down. And that's why, after months of trying to get the best deal possible, the best other teams were offering were draft picks and prospects. Clearly, we did not get full value on Comrie. A 1st, 3rd and Woywitka were not an equal return for a young player who had already scored 30 goals, but it was the best deal available. No one was offering a similarly talented youngster in return. Add to this that Lowe had a lot of pressure on him to deal Comrie and get a return for him.

Fast forward 3 years later, and Pronger, the guy Lowe was planning on building a team around that would challenge for the cup starts saying that he might not be happy in Edmonton. Lowe hopes that the cup run will change his mind and they agree to discuss it in the offseason. Days after losing to Carolina, Lowe and Pronger briefly bring up the situation, and again Pronger agrees to discuss the matter with Lowe later. Pronger then leaves with his family on holiday and leaks to the media that he wishes to leave Edmonton. This comes as a shock to Lowe, as during their last discussion Pronger had not revealed he had come to such an absolute decision. On this same day, Florida trades Luongo to Vancouver for Bertuzzi. Now, where some you st*pid f***s get off thinking that somewhere in there, Lowe should have traded for Luongo I have no idea. Was he supposed to have traded Pronger before even having discussed what his decision was going to be? Was Lowe somehow supposed to have known that Pronger was going to be an ass and leak his decision to the media, thereby lowering his trade value? I suppose this is where PunjabiOil and his mystical eastern powers of knowing the future would have come in handy.

I suppose had Luongo not been traded that same day, and Lowe had had some time to work with, trading for him could have been a possibility. But now he was left with having to move a guy who made it publicly known he wasn't going to return. Already at a disadvantage because of Pronger's move, he decided that he didn't want a Comrie situation all over again. I don't know why some of you think that Pronger would have played next season. I don't think he would have shown up in Edmonton. True, he had a contract, but that didn't stop Yashin from doing the same thing a few years prior. There was also the possibility of his hold-out lowering his value even more, such as in the Comrie case. Even if he did show up, it would have been a big distraction to the team and it could have affected Pronger's performance, also leading to lower value.

Lowe also felt it would be best to trade him sooner than later, as those teams that were looking for a top defenceman would soon be signing UFAs, and that pool of interested teams would shrink. Unfortunately, (and this is the part Rage seems unable to comprehend) no one was offering a superstar in trade for Pronger. Hell, no one was even offering a star. It was widely reported that Florida was not willing to part with Horton and Bouwmeester. Likewise, Toronto felt Steen and Kaberle were too steep a price. Is that information getting through Rage? Kaberle and Steen. There were no teams offering Hossa or any of the other stars you mentioned. And nobody really cares what you "think" may have been offered, since its all speculation and clearly not true. If any teams had offered a player of Hossa-like quality, rest assured Lowe would have been interested. And really, you can't blame teams for this. Defencemen like Chara and Jovanovski were going to be available as UFAs shortly. And while they may have ended up costing more money-wise, you didn't need to give up any players to acquire them.

Thus Lowe was asking teams for a good young forward and defenceman. Anaheim undoubtedly offered the best package as Lowe finalized they trade with them, despite the fact that they were in the same conference. Lowe undoubtedly would have preferred moving him to the east. Finally, in response to dumb remarks like Lowe traded Pronger for "scrubs" because he didn't want to spend money... then why would he offer Chara $7 million? Obviously, Chara chose to sign with Boston in the end, but if you don't want to spend, then why even offer that money? What if Chara had agreed? Was Lowe going to say "oops, I didn't mean it"? I guess you can cue the idiot conspiracy theorists now. And yes, Lowe chose to not sign McKee, Kubina or whoever else was available for the money that they eventually did for the same reason he chose not to offer Smyth more. They simply aren't worth that much. If the team is going to pay that much for someone, then its going to be someone who will make a large impact on the team. As for Mark Eaton... is it even necessary to comment on that?

Spectacular post. Thank you - I have started on posts like this several times, only to decide that it wasn't worth the time or effort.