News Article: Mendes: Senators' problems were bigger than Jason Spezza

[Stylizer1]

Mendes has quietly turned into one of the most reliably honest and accurate sources that cover the Senators.

Hard to argue with anything he writes here

Too bad he didn't have this opinion last season when callers where all over Spezza. Anyone with half a brain could see that Spezza value far exceeded his faults.

 

[Stylizer1]

Having a budget is a standard business practice. Let's say Melnyk told Murray he could spend to the cap starting last summer...what moves would/could we have made that would be guaranteed to make the Sens a better team this year?

The team is young and we have to be patient, some of our core guys are still developing. Did anyone expect to be a contender this season?

I fully believe that Melnyk will spend to the cap or near the cap when the time is right.

Nashville says "hey look at me"

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Has the "Beating a dead Horse" emoticon been used in this thread yet? If not, it'll be my pleasure:

 

[Fandlauer]

I feel like we're going to need to address goaltending again. By the time the team is ready to compete Andy won't be around anymore and Lehner is turning out to be a plug.

 

[SlapJack]

I keep hearing people say the only way to build a contender is through the draft, but we havent drafted a first line forward since spezza 14 years ago.

I hear we cant overpay for free agents and that first line players arent available through trade.

So drafting it is...but we've only drafted one first line player in the last decade and a bit.

You keep saying this, but why don't you go over the all the drafts of the last few years and pick out all the amazing, franchise saving players that Ottawa ineptly failed to draft. Then justify why these were inept choices from Ottawa's perspective when that player wasn't picked by any other team for a few rounds.

Don't forget, building through the draft also gives you pieces to move in player acquisition. Without those pieces, there's no Turris or Ryan on this team.

Unfortunately, this team has not sucked hard and/or long enough to land themselves a Crosby/Malkin or Toews/Kane. Sucking that badly doesn't even guarantee you get those players, and this fanbase has trouble dealing with a bad road trip, so 2 or 3 seasons of suck won't go over well at all.

 

[bert]

If you really believe that dumping Gryba and replacing him with a 175, 5' 10" D man solves anything then

If recognizing reality is a key, then I would have thought you would have understood the reality is the Sens are young and inexperienced for the most part at all the skill positions (top six & top two pairings).

Exceptions, MacArthur, Ryan and Methot.

IMO the major problem with this team is inexperience and in real life that isn't fixed by any approach other than patience.

I really do think having a D man that can pass the puck out controlled and not give it away all the time will make the team better yes. Yes I think that. What may I ask about that opinion needs help. Please enlighten me.

The D core is already huge, slow, stupid and lacks skill how many guys do you think a team should dress like that? Its not 1999 its clearly not working in todays NHL.

Id love to see this 6 dress sometime. Only two guys that struggle at moving the puck out of 6 and everyone is on there natural side with a puck mover on each pair. Phillips and Gryba were a mitigated disaster last night, constantly stuck in the zone and momentum killers when they were on the ice.

Methot Karlsson
Cowen Ceci
Borowiecki Wideman

I did recognize the team is inexperienced that's EXACTLY what I am saying. I suggested accumulating top end assets and building towards a time that the core gets more experience and improves. How you had trouble deciphering this from my post is hard for me to understand.

 

[jbeck5]

Hmmm... Hoffman and Zibanejad have no impact? Turris was got with a draft pick essentially, he has no impact? Stone none either?

Sorry, by impact I meant "top line player". Zibanejad has proven to be a good third line center so far. Hopefully he can become a number 1 center.

Hoffman I like. He doesn't even have 30 career points so we don't know for sure if he's a first line winger. He may just be. Well see.

Turris was not drafted by the team so I obviously didn't count him. Even then, he's a good 2nd line center, not a first on a contenter.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I think Zibanejad has shown spurts of being a top line centre and, at age 21, that should be very encouraging

 

[jbeck5]

You keep saying this, but why don't you go over the all the drafts of the last few years and pick out all the amazing, franchise saving players that Ottawa ineptly failed to draft. Then justify why these were inept choices from Ottawa's perspective when that player wasn't picked by any other team for a few rounds.

Don't forget, building through the draft also gives you pieces to move in player acquisition. Without those pieces, there's no Turris or Ryan on this team.

Unfortunately, this team has not sucked hard and/or long enough to land themselves a Crosby/Malkin or Toews/Kane. Sucking that badly doesn't even guarantee you get those players, and this fanbase has trouble dealing with a bad road trip, so 2 or 3 seasons of suck won't go over well at all.

Ottawa senators draft picks that became legit first liners for at least a year or two.

1992-yashin
1993-demitra
1994-alfredsson,bonk
1995-berard
1996-none
1997-hossa
1998-none
1999-havlat
2000-none
2001-spezza
2002-none
2003-none
2004-none
2005-none
2006-none
2007-none
2008-karlsson
2009-none
2010-none

Honorable mentions: daigle(1993), phillips(1996), salo(1996), dackell(1996), arvedson(1997), fisher(1998), vermette (2000), volchenkov(2000), laich(2001), emery(2001), meszaros(2004), foligno (2006).

 

[Stylizer1]

Ottawa senators draft picks that became legit first liners for at least a year or two.

1992-yashin
1993-demitra
1994-alfredsson,bonk
1995-berard
1996-none
1997-hossa
1998-none
1999-havlat
2000-none
2001-spezza
2002-none
2003-none
2004-none
2005-none
2006-none
2007-none
2008-karlsson
2009-none
2010-none

Honorable mentions: daigle(1993), phillips(1996), salo(1996), dackell(1996), arvedson(1997), fisher(1998), vermette (2000), volchenkov(2000), laich(2001), emery(2001), meszaros(2004), foligno (2006).

Those elite years are hurting us now.

 

[supsens]

Foligno, all star team captain and having a hell of a year, he was one of my faves. if your gonna have bonk on your list you might as well have Foligno

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Foligno wasn't a top line player for us and the only reason he is having a great year is because of Johansen

He's not that good, he's pretty good

 

[SlapJack]

Ottawa senators draft picks that became legit first liners for at least a year or two.

1992-yashin
1993-demitra
1994-alfredsson,bonk
1995-berard
1996-none
1997-hossa
1998-none
1999-havlat
2000-none
2001-spezza
2002-none
2003-none
2004-none
2005-none
2006-none
2007-none
2008-karlsson
2009-none
2010-none

Honorable mentions: daigle(1993), phillips(1996), salo(1996), dackell(1996), arvedson(1997), fisher(1998), vermette (2000), volchenkov(2000), laich(2001), emery(2001), meszaros(2004), foligno (2006).

This list is not only wrong but completely without context. How does this show Ottawa in comparison to other teams? What does anything prior to 2007 have to do with Murray? And if Dackell and Arvedson get honorable mentions, there's about 10 other guys that belong in there.

Not that it matters because the point is about what have they done lately under Murray. It's well known the Muckler years were garbage and is frankly irrelevant now.

 

[jbeck5]

This list is not only wrong but completely without context. How does this show Ottawa in comparison to other teams? What does anything prior to 2007 have to do with Murray? And if Dackell and Arvedson get honorable mentions, there's about 10 other guys that belong in there.

Not that it matters because the point is about what have they done lately under Murray. It's well known the Muckler years were garbage and is frankly irrelevant now.

It doesn't show a comparison to other teams. That's not the point.

Nothing prior to 2007 has nothing to do with Murray. I never mentioned murray.

I mentioned dackell and arvedson because they played on the top lines for a year or two. Dackell with yashin and mceachern, and arvedson with bonk and hossa.

The list is not wrong.

It shows how we can't get first liners through the draft anymore. It doesn't say why, just simply shows that it hasn't been done in a while.

It is in response to the people that say "trades and signing Ufa's is not the way to build a winner, we have yo build it through the draft"... But the draft method can also not work at all.

Most teams that won cups recently were built with some high draft picks. Were not getting those.

The rare team that won without sucking before, like Boston, got lucky with guys like thomas, or went out and signed the best ufa available in chara.

Even Detroit was known for going after impact veteran Ufa's every summer when they were winning cups.

You either have to suck to acquire top picks, or go heavy after the good Ufa's.(yes, there's a chance you're unlucky and become an Edmonton or new York rangers with these 2 strategies).

 

[jbeck5]

Foligno, all star team captain and having a hell of a year, he was one of my faves. if your gonna have bonk on your list you might as well have Foligno

Another year and foligno is on that list. Its just bonk has 60 and 70 point seasons under his belt. Foligno doesn't. That's why.

 

[SlapJack]

It doesn't show a comparison to other teams. That's not the point.

Nothing prior to 2007 has nothing to do with Murray. I never mentioned murray.

I mentioned dackell and arvedson because they played on the top lines for a year or two. Dackell with yashin and mceachern, and arvedson with bonk and hossa.

The list is not wrong.

It shows how we can't get first liners through the draft anymore. It doesn't say why, just simply shows that it hasn't been done in a while.

It is in response to the people that say "trades and signing Ufa's is not the way to build a winner, we have yo build it through the draft"... But the draft method can also not work at all.

Most teams that won cups recently were built with some high draft picks. Were not getting those.

The rare team that won without sucking before, like Boston, got lucky with guys like thomas, or went out and signed the best ufa available in charge.

Even Detroit was known for going after impact veteran Ufa's every summer when they were winning cups.

You either have to suck to acquire top picks, or go heavy after the good Ufa's.(yes, there's a chance you're unlucky and become an Edmonton or new York rangers with these 2 strategies).

All Cup teams or good teams in general have built the nucleus through the draft. UFA's are only helpful when they add to that core, you cannot build a team through free agent acquisition. Trades are also essentially dependent on what kind of assets you have to offer to get something good in return; good prospects from the draft give you the ability to make those moves. Having good depth in the organization also allows you to trade a good asset when you have decent personnel to replace them.

Boston didn't get lucky, unless you're referring to them drafting Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Milan Lucic, and Brad Marchand outside the 1st round. They also had Tyler Seguin from the Kessel deal.

 

[jbeck5]

All Cup teams or good teams in general have built the nucleus through the draft. UFA's are only helpful when they add to that core, you cannot build a team through free agent acquisition. Trades are also essentially dependent on what kind of assets you have to offer to get something good in return; good prospects from the draft give you the ability to make those moves. Having good depth in the organization also allows you to trade a good asset when you have decent personnel to replace them.

Boston didn't get lucky, unless you're referring to them drafting Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Milan Lucic, and Brad Marchand outside the 1st round. They also had Tyler Seguin from the Kessel deal.

No, I'm referring to guys like chara and Thomas who had more to do with that cup win.

 

[BrawlFan]

Blaming the captain for a loss and stating he lacks intensity and the leadership qualities you would find in an ideal captain are separate things. This is like saying if we were winning I cant critique the captain for not being a good leader.

For example: Andrew Ladd to me represents someone with good leadership qualities and a solid player who leads by example. This is someone I would call a good captain however he has not been able to lead the Jets to a playoff spot. The reason Karlsson is being blamed is because he plays half the game and for the most part he's a lazy player

 

[Sens Rule]

Ottawa senators draft picks that became legit first liners for at least a year or two.

1992-yashin
1993-demitra
1994-alfredsson,bonk
1995-berard
1996-none
1997-hossa
1998-none
1999-havlat
2000-none
2001-spezza
2002-none
2003-none
2004-none
2005-none
2006-none
2007-none
2008-karlsson
2009-none
2010-none

Honorable mentions: daigle(1993), phillips(1996), salo(1996), dackell(1996), arvedson(1997), fisher(1998), vermette (2000), volchenkov(2000), laich(2001), emery(2001), meszaros(2004), foligno (2006).

Phillips and Volchenkov were the #1 pairing on very, very good teams. They got most of the playing time with the Pizza line. Of course they qualify in your "1st line" scenario. Foligno is a first liner now and Captain of the All-star team. Emery was the starter on a team that went to the finals. Fisher was a first liner on Nashville.

But hey... You have an agenda...

 

[Busboy]

Phillips and Volchenkov were the #1 pairing on very, very good teams. They got most of the playing time with the Pizza line. Of course they qualify in your "1st line" scenario. Foligno is a first liner now and Captain of the All-star team. Emery was the starter on a team that went to the finals. Fisher was a first liner on Nashville.

But hey... You have an agenda...

This is a bit misleading. Phillips and Volchenkov became a pairing after Chara left and were the second pairing behind Reden - Meszaros.

The team went into a serious decline when Volchenkov and Phillips became our first pairing. Both were legitimate top 4 guys, I would say above average for second pairing but not quite top pair calibre at any point in their careers.

 

[jbeck5]

Phillips and Volchenkov were the #1 pairing on very, very good teams. They got most of the playing time with the Pizza line. Of course they qualify in your "1st line" scenario. Foligno is a first liner now and Captain of the All-star team. Emery was the starter on a team that went to the finals. Fisher was a first liner on Nashville.

But hey... You have an agenda...

I have an agenda? Mind telling me what it is.

 

[SlapJack]

No, I'm referring to guys like chara and Thomas who had more to do with that cup win.

They ain't winning the cup that year without the other guys to build around. Chara and Thomas were key, but it's those type of players that get added to only enhance the team you've built.

 

[jbeck5]

They ain't winning the cup that year without the other guys to build around. Chara and Thomas were key, but it's those type of players that get added to only enhance the team you've built.

I just feel like a Norris caliber d and vezina caliber goalie were bigger, more important pieces. Neither drafted by the bruins.

 

[aragorn]

Draft Position: In the early yrs we drafted higher, we drafted a number of 1st overalls & in the top 10 almost annually. Right around 2000 we started drafting much lower because the team was playing so well, remember we were in the playoffs for a decade in a row. But we have also had some breaks with some late picks that are looking good this yr in Hoffman & Stone & a few others as well.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

Best stat for this year -

9-16 when scoring first. A .360 win percentage
Only three teams have <0.500 when scoring first and we are significantly below the other two.