News Article: Mendes: Senators' problems were bigger than Jason Spezza

[Sens Rule]

Spezza should not have been expected to be a two-way forward. Karlsson should not be expected to be a great shut down defenceman... Nor sacrifice his greatest gift as the best offensive defenceman in the world...bar none.

You have truly great superstar players and you have to work to build around them. Karlsson playing with crap is stupid. Phillips or Boro? Lol even Methot is a poor partner for him.

We give Spezza Greening and Condra as rookies to end a season? Really 3rd or even 4th liners? We give Spezza Mickalek as his best winger for a few years?

Alfie bailed on this team... Because it was horribly mismanaged.

Anyway... You win by recognizing reality. By making your best assets... Your beat assets. Wanting Karlsson to be Ray Bourque... Doesn't make it happen. Wanting Spezza to be Kopitar... Doesn't make it happen.

Fans are just fans. Make Karlsson or Spezza look bad... They will get out their pitchforks.

Karlsson will beg a trade out of here soon if we don't get him a legit partner.

It is hard to get quality in trade or as a UFA. But you can't do it as a bottom cap team... Worried about insignificant money. Make the Hemsky trade a month earlier...maybe we make the playoffs. Would have been possible... But we needed Oilers to eat salary and wait until the least term is left.

This is no longer a proud franchise. It is becoming a joke. Luckily the team has developed quite a few assets wisely. Have a good bunch of prospects. Have made good trades to get Turris and Ryan.

But we need a legit partner for Karlsson... So he can play like he should. So he can win more Norris trophies and get 80 points a year. Stupidly wanting him to change his game is dumb. As a fan, coach or GM. Methot is a poor partner for him... But Boro or Phillips are jokes. And Methot is injured all year and we so nothing???? It is about $$$$. Murray can't do anything useful.

Fans are mad. It should not be at Karlsson. It should be on Melnyk. It is all at his door.

 

[Senateurs]

The team has been wallowing in mediocrity for 6-7 years now. That's more than enough time to replenish the club and draft impact players. And of course, there's the endless parade of coaches, which points to issues well beyond the fan base.

Management has had his share of blame for this 7 years of mediocrity but I think a big part of the blame should be put on ownership. And I'm not talking about the budget but the unwillingness to accept to go to the bottom when we had the chance. We missed it in 09, we trade our way out of the top 4 in 2011 and it sounds like we're about to make another trade to improve in the standings.

Let's accept where we are in our rebuild and draft where we're supposed to.

 

[jbeck5]

I didn't find that article to be that well written or analytical for that matter. First, to start and end the piece by focusing on the fan base is a bit ridiculous. While he did take calls and answer emails, the people who call in or write are a small segment of the fan base. There are clearly rationale fans among those who call in and complain about the most irrelevant things.

Second, Mendes doesn't really address some of the big issues with the organization. For instance, he says the Senators have drafted very well, although I would argue they've only done a decent job at the draft in recent years. While there are NHLers, the team hasn't drafted high-impact players other than Karlsson. Lehner, Zibanejad, Cowen, etc. haven't developed into truly foundational pieces. Whether this is a scouting issue or a one about player development is a question to be asked throughout the organization.

Melnyk's budget restriction is another glaring oversight. I do agree with those that say Murray is limited in what he can do with such a tight budget. At the same, Murray is the one putting the team together. The team's drafting, as mentioned, has been good but not great. There are several players on the roster who are overpaid or whom shouldn't have been re-signed for the deals they received. Can't fault Melnyk for the Greening and Phillips re-signings.

The team has been wallowing in mediocrity for 6-7 years now. That's more than enough time to replenish the club and draft impact players. And of course, there's the endless parade of coaches, which points to issues well beyond the fan base.

Very good points. I don't think Mendez will touch those subjects with a 10 ft pole for fear of losing his sources in the organization.

He never used to say anything bad about the sens. However recently I have noticed him call people out.

 

[dpw]

And i think that was a mistake. They should have just went with three A's and see who emerged as a captain.

So not naming a captain would have got us into the playoffs last year??

You put way to much meaning into the 'C'

 

[Boud]

So not naming a captain would have got us into the playoffs last year??

You put way to much meaning into the 'C'

This is not related to playoffs but to the team. By naming 3A it gives time to choose the right person to be captain and probably no need to change captain 3 times in 3 years which has made quite the buzz for no reason. Knowing Spezza would leave, why do you give him the C? You need stability in a team and part of the solution is not having different captains every year.

Of course it did not have any impact on wether or not the team makes the playoffs but it was mismanaged. It probably puts more pressure on Spezza and also more pressure by the fan for Spezza to be a leader on the ice and that might've put gas to the fire. Not a big problem but just bad decision.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

why not hate our management for giving us a ****** team without direction. When you have a bad team people get blamed, BM is that person to blame imo.

Not many teams have done better than we have with such limited payroll...

 

[Northern Neighbour]

Management has had his share of blame for this 7 years of mediocrity but I think a big part of the blame should be put on ownership. And I'm not talking about the budget but the unwillingness to accept to go to the bottom when we had the chance. We missed it in 09, we trade our way out of the top 4 in 2011 and it sounds like we're about to make another trade to improve in the standings.

Let's accept where we are in our rebuild and draft where we're supposed to.

We've been told the team has been rebuilding, reloading, whatever for at least 5 years. That's a big part of the issue.

And definitely, ownership has an influence if not a direct hand in all of this. On the one hand, the team is in the midst of "youth movement". On the other hand, it wants to compete for the playoffs. Achieving both is very difficult. If the team is going to commit to a youth movement, it should be fully invested in that direction. The (re-) signings of players like Chris Phillips, David Legwand, Craig Anderson, etc. are examples of the schizophrenic mindset of the team's braintrust.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

I don't think it's at all fair or remotely accurate to equate the criticism Karlsson has faced this season to what happened with Spezza. I haven't heard ANYONE say "trade Karlsson", nor have I personally heard anything in the neighbourhood of "you'll never win with him".

You need to listen to more post-game shows. As predicted, the fans are turning on Karlsson, saying he lacks heart and that he should be traded for someone that plays defence.

Yup, it begins with Melnyk because he committed hundreds of millions to buy this team.

Money is not going to fix the Sens and is far from the only problem we have.

Moving Spezza earlier would have made a huge difference IMO, but hindsight is 20/20.

Also not signing Kovalev, trading Volcehnkov instead of letting him walk and then having the patience to suck for a couple of seasons and collect high draft picks.

Money is a big part of it though. Right now the Sens are in "maintenance mode", just enough money is being spent to keep the contracts afloat and that's it. No money to add a key free agent and no money to add to the budget via trade. It will be near impossible to win a Cup if we have 25-30 million in cap space going unused year after year.

Friend got a good description of the team, AHL + (plus), in other words a bunch of kids with a few elite good pieces, but not anywhere near Cup level.

Spezza should not have been expected to be a two-way forward. Karlsson should not be expected to be a great shut down defenceman... Nor sacrifice his greatest gift as the best offensive defenceman in the world...bar none.

You have truly great superstar players and you have to work to build around them. Karlsson playing with crap is stupid. Phillips or Boro? Lol even Methot is a poor partner for him.

We give Spezza Greening and Condra as rookies to end a season? Really 3rd or even 4th liners? We give Spezza Mickalek as his best winger for a few years?

Alfie bailed on this team... Because it was horribly mismanaged.

Karlsson will beg a trade out of here soon if we don't get him a legit partner.

It is hard to get quality in trade or as a UFA. But you can't do it as a bottom cap team... Worried about insignificant money. Make the Hemsky trade a month earlier...maybe we make the playoffs. Would have been possible... But we needed Oilers to eat salary and wait until the least term is left.

This is no longer a proud franchise. It is becoming a joke. Luckily the team has developed quite a few assets wisely. Have a good bunch of prospects. Have made good trades to get Turris and Ryan.

But we need a legit partner for Karlsson... So he can play like he should. So he can win more Norris trophies and get 80 points a year. Stupidly wanting him to change his game is dumb. As a fan, coach or GM. Methot is a poor partner for him... But Boro or Phillips are jokes. And Methot is injured all year and we so nothing???? It is about $$$$. Murray can't do anything useful.

Fans are mad. It should not be at Karlsson. It should be on Melnyk. It is all at his door.

Best post in a long time! This team has been mired in mediocrity, from the GM who considers average an accomplishment to the owner that won't invest in his own team to keeping bad players at the end of the line instead of allowing young hungry players to take their place.

One can only hope that in 2016-2017...like Ian said (and a user here said 2-3 years from being 2-3 years away....) Melnyk puts his money where his mouth is!

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Spezza should not have been expected to be a two-way forward. Karlsson should not be expected to be a great shut down defenceman... Nor sacrifice his greatest gift as the best offensive defenceman in the world...bar none.

You have truly great superstar players and you have to work to build around them. Karlsson playing with crap is stupid. Phillips or Boro? Lol even Methot is a poor partner for him.

We give Spezza Greening and Condra as rookies to end a season? Really 3rd or even 4th liners? We give Spezza Mickalek as his best winger for a few years?

Alfie bailed on this team... Because it was horribly mismanaged.

Anyway... You win by recognizing reality. By making your best assets... Your beat assets. Wanting Karlsson to be Ray Bourque... Doesn't make it happen. Wanting Spezza to be Kopitar... Doesn't make it happen.

Fans are just fans. Make Karlsson or Spezza look bad... They will get out their pitchforks.

Karlsson will beg a trade out of here soon if we don't get him a legit partner.

It is hard to get quality in trade or as a UFA. But you can't do it as a bottom cap team... Worried about insignificant money. Make the Hemsky trade a month earlier...maybe we make the playoffs. Would have been possible... But we needed Oilers to eat salary and wait until the least term is left.

This is no longer a proud franchise. It is becoming a joke. Luckily the team has developed quite a few assets wisely. Have a good bunch of prospects. Have made good trades to get Turris and Ryan.

But we need a legit partner for Karlsson... So he can play like he should. So he can win more Norris trophies and get 80 points a year. Stupidly wanting him to change his game is dumb. As a fan, coach or GM. Methot is a poor partner for him... But Boro or Phillips are jokes. And Methot is injured all year and we so nothing???? It is about $$$$. Murray can't do anything useful.

Fans are mad. It should not be at Karlsson. It should be on Melnyk. It is all at his door.

Why doesnt it happen? Because you say it or because the players can't do it? The way i see is his like trying to reign in a wild horse. You're going to take away the horse's fierce nature that you respect but hey guess what now you can actually ride the horse.

We can have karlsson playing a risky game but hey guess what were not going to win with him being a number one d because nearly all great dmen for the most part excelled at defense and offense was only a bonus. If karlsson can't look good without a great partner hes not a number one dman hes a number 2. Number 1 defender make their pairing they dont need someone else to make it for them. Most great dmen have good partners because they turned their partner into a better player then they were. I dont disagree with trying to find someone to help karl because he clearly needs it but i dont think we should expect all his problems to go away if he does.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Doughty makes a ton of defensive mistakes for being too gung-ho offensively

Thing is, the system he plays in helps minimize the repercussions and Quick also helps a lot

 

[bert]

You need to listen to more post-game shows. As predicted, the fans are turning on Karlsson, saying he lacks heart and that he should be traded for someone that plays defence.




Money is a big part of it though. Right now the Sens are in "maintenance mode", just enough money is being spent to keep the contracts afloat and that's it. No money to add a key free agent and no money to add to the budget via trade. It will be near impossible to win a Cup if we have 25-30 million in cap space going unused year after year.

Friend got a good description of the team, AHL + (plus), in other words a bunch of kids with a few elite good pieces, but not anywhere near Cup level.





Best post in a long time! This team has been mired in mediocrity, from the GM who considers average an accomplishment to the owner that won't invest in his own team to keeping bad players at the end of the line instead of allowing young hungry players to take their place.

One can only hope that in 2016-2017...like Ian said (and a user here said 2-3 years from being 2-3 years away....) Melnyk puts his money where his mouth is!

Mendes makes good points about where the team is at.

Its funny how everyone can see it except management, but if we were in Bryans shoes could you see it any other way? I think its a very difficult reality Bryan has to face... For obvious reasons.

Sens Rule hit the nail on the head when he said

' Anyway... You win by recognizing reality. By making your best assets... Your best assets. Wanting Karlsson to be Ray Bourque... Doesn't make it happen. Wanting Spezza to be Kopitar... Doesn't make it happen.'

Retaining assets and managing them the best way possible is how elite teams are built.

Recognizing reality is something that has to happen or this organization maybe doomed for failure ala our neighbours down the 401. This is the worst possible position for a team to be in. Sometimes you have to get worse to get better.

I think signing Methot has to be a priority and getting a more mobile d core that can move the puck is this teams biggest issue. I just don't see how moving forward with Gryba, Cowen, Phillips and Boro all on the roster works in todays NHL. The team has invested a lot into Cowen so he isn't going anywhere and Boro is on a great contract and brings a real physical edge only Neil has.

Time to dump Gryba I think a team would give up a late round pick for him. Phillips is almost done time to let him go. Id really like to see what Wideman can do, this is a big D core outside of Karlsson who is obviously an impact player. Why not try Wideman out?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It's a truth in life

You win by playing to your strenghts, not by fearing your weaknesses

Alas, since hockey is "cool" we also get a lot of tools following the team like those abject morons who call TSN1200 to complain after a loss

 

[Burrowsaurus]

That is kinda the X factor in all of this. Bryan Murray's situation. I'm sure he wants to get in the playoffs and witness his team go through the battle one last time. And I do respect that.

But he's also shown a habit of not letting the team go in the past. (Post cup final run). I dono. It's all very tough.

 

[Stuzchuk]

not quite sure when hockey fans will accept the fact that theres a transition phase, and every teams have to go through it...

We were bottom 6 3 years ago... our fanbase should be patient

 

[Burrowsaurus]

not quite sure when hockey fans will accept the fact that theres a transition phase, and every teams have to go through it...

We were bottom 6 3 years ago... our fanbase should be patient

I am personally not that upset with where we currently are. You're right we were bottom (5 actually New Jersey won the lottery and bumped us to sixth) and we made the playoffs 2 times since then. But it's where I see us going (through my own take on things) that has me and I'm sure some others, worried

 

[jbeck5]

not quite sure when hockey fans will accept the fact that theres a transition phase, and every teams have to go through it...

We were bottom 6 3 years ago... our fanbase should be patient

you're math is off.

We played the rangers in the playoffs 3 years ago.

Last year we missed the playoffs.

2 years ago we beat montreal and lost to pittsburgh.

 

[TeamRenzo]

No, Melnyk is the person to blame.

Melnyk is the one who is making the gm have a strict budget. Melnyk is most likely the one who is making Murray make moves to try to get into the playoffs because he wants playoff revenue.

This all begins and ends with Melnyk.

Having a budget is a standard business practice. Let's say Melnyk told Murray he could spend to the cap starting last summer...what moves would/could we have made that would be guaranteed to make the Sens a better team this year?

The team is young and we have to be patient, some of our core guys are still developing. Did anyone expect to be a contender this season?

I fully believe that Melnyk will spend to the cap or near the cap when the time is right.

 

[Busboy]

I am personally not that upset with where we currently are. You're right we were bottom (5 actually New Jersey won the lottery and bumped us to sixth) and we made the playoffs 2 times since then. But it's where I see us going (through my own take on things) that has me and I'm sure some others, worried

I'm not upset with where we're at. I'm also glad management didn't make any big moves before this season because I was wanting this season to be used as somewhat of an evaluation year and a chance for players like Zib, Stone, Hoffman, Cowen and Chiasson to show us if they're ready to step things up.

A lot of people are upset that management didn't add a piece but they're also upset that Murray wants to add a piece now.

The reality is that there was no chance we were going to compete for a cup this year. That was obvious and it it's more obvious now. No one or two pieces was going to change this.

 

[jbeck5]

Having a budget is a standard business practice. Let's say Melnyk told Murray he could spend to the cap starting last summer...what moves would/could we have made that would be guaranteed to make the Sens a better team this year?

The team is young and we have to be patient, some of our core guys are still developing. Did anyone expect to be a contender this season?

I fully believe that Melnyk will spend to the cap or near the cap when the time is right.

There is no way to know if there were moves to be made. only the GM knows. Now your stance is "its possible no moves were available" but you dont know that. It can just as likely be "there were several available moves" and we wouldn't know.

The point is other GMs are making moves that improve their team significantly and ours isnt one of them.

Having a budget is standard business practice, yes. But if you're budget is smaller than the rest of your competition you're at a great disadvantage.

 

[jbeck5]

I'm not upset with where we're at. I'm also glad management didn't make any big moves before this season because I was wanting this season to be used as somewhat of an evaluation year and a chance for players like Zib, Stone, Hoffman, Cowen and Chiasson to show us if they're ready to step things up.

A lot of people are upset that management didn't add a piece but they're also upset that Murray wants to add a piece now.

The reality is that there was no chance we were going to compete for a cup this year. That was obvious and it it's more obvious now. No one or two pieces was going to change this.

I think people want to add pieces in the summer that are young and can grow with the team . Not give up youth for an old fart at the deadline when were out of the playoffs.

Theres a big difference.

We're too quick to add someone at the end of the year when its all over.
We're too slow to add someone before the year starts to give us a better roster from the beginning.

All because of $$$$$$

We go into the season refusing to spend money on our holes(#2 d, #1c, #1w) but then when said holes cause us to be out of the playoffs mid season, we hear about how management is scrambling to add a pieces to fill a hole.

^^Thats not how you build a successful franchise...yet that's our strategy.

 

[Busboy]

There is no way to know if there were moves to be made. only the GM knows. Now your stance is "its possible no moves were available" but you dont know that. It can just as likely be "there were several available moves" and we wouldn't know.

The point is other GMs are making moves that improve their team significantly and ours isnt one of them.

Having a budget is standard business practice, yes. But if you're budget is smaller than the rest of your competition you're at a great disadvantage.

We don't know for sure but we can definitely make an educated guess and apply critical thinking skills instead of simply playing what if games.

Look around the league and do some research to see how many top 4 defenders or top 6 forwards have either been signed by teams or moved via trade.

With a little research you will see that impact players rarely get moved. Look further and you will see that when they do, they often have trade clauses and dictate where they want to go according to random variables like where they grew up (Kesler, Spezza for trade examples, Suter and Clarkson for UFA examples).

Then you can apply some further critical thinking and see that when impact players are available, there are likely 28 other teams interested in their services in some capacity.

So while you can say "we don't know who is available," we can also say that there is plenty of evidence that:

A) Impact players are rarely available

B) Impact players often have the ability to dictate where they will go and will receive fair compensation wherever they go

C) it is typically costly to acquire impact players either in therms of assets or dollars

And with that evidence we can conclude that:

It is unlikely an impact player was available to the Senators, and if one was it is likely that it would have required the team to take a significant risk by either giving up great assets or committing to large and long contracts.

We can then go even further to find evidence that the Sens are willing to make moves to acquire impact players when they are available:

A) we reportedly made a significant offer for Rick Nash

B) We offered Clarkson a large contract

C) We acquired Bobby Ryan

D) We signed Ryan to a large contract

But if you want to be upset that management hasn't hit a home run or found a needle in a haystack then go ahead.

 

[jbeck5]

We don't know for sure but we can definitely make an educated guess and apply critical thinking skills instead of simply playing what if games.

Look around the league and do some research to see how many top 4 defenders or top 6 forwards have either been signed by teams or moved via trade.

With a little research you will see that impact players rarely get moved. Look further and you will see that when they do, they often have trade clauses and dictate where they want to go according to random variables like where they grew up (Kesler, Spezza for trade examples, Suter and Clarkson for UFA examples).

Then you can apply some further critical thinking and see that when impact players are available, there are likely 28 other teams interested in their services in some capacity.

So while you can say "we don't know who is available," we can also say that there is plenty of evidence that:

A) Impact players are rarely available

B) Impact players often have the ability to dictate where they will go and will receive fair compensation wherever they go

C) it is typically costly to acquire impact players either in therms of assets or dollars

And with that evidence we can conclude that:

It is unlikely an impact player was available to the Senators, and if one was it is likely that it would have required the team to take a significant risk by either giving up great assets or committing to large and long contracts.

We can then go even further to find evidence that the Sens are willing to make moves to acquire impact players when they are available:

A) we reportedly made a significant offer for Rick Nash

B) We offered Clarkson a large contract

C) We acquired Bobby Ryan

D) We signed Ryan to a large contract

But if you want to be upset that management hasn't hit a home run or found a needle in a haystack then go ahead.

Im upset because management hasnt found ways to improve the team. thats basically it.

 

[SlapJack]

Mendes doesn't really address some of the big issues with the organization. For instance, he says the Senators have drafted very well, although I would argue they've only done a decent job at the draft in recent years. While there are NHLers, the team hasn't drafted high-impact players other than Karlsson. Lehner, Zibanejad, Cowen, etc. haven't developed into truly foundational pieces. Whether this is a scouting issue or a one about player development is a question to be asked throughout the organization.

Ottawa has drafted very well compared to the rest of the league. When have they been in a position to grab these "high-impact" players? They haven't had a top 5 pick since the Yashin trade nabbed Spezza.

Since 2008 with Murray at the helm, he has been building from the back end out and that takes longer than picking up defensemen via trades/free agency, then scooping up young forwards in the draft. There's a strong nucleus that's still young with Lehner in goal, and Karlsson, Cowen, and Ceci on D. They've found some hidden gems in Stone and Hoffman up front, and Lazar and Zibanejad are good NHL players already with much more potential.

I don't know what else could make people happy as far as the draft goes. You look at the teams that have the high-impact players and 95% of those guys were gone before we stepped up to the podium to call out our first pick. The Islanders have had a top 5 pick for what seems like every year. Same with Florida and Edmonton. Then there's Teams like Tampa and Colorado who were fortunate enough to pick top 3 three times during that span. Hell, I think the only impact player that Ottawa missed out on that didn't get passed over by every other team after the fact for at least a round was Tarasenko. And he ended up becoming Turris. I don't even think this team is better with Tarasenko over Turris even though Tarasenko is far more dangerous.

The drafting has been amongst the best in the league during Murray's tenure.

 

[Busboy]

Im upset because management hasnt found ways to improve the team. thats basically it.

Nobody is happy with where the team is in the standings. But let's be realistic about why the team is here and recognize that the budget is not the main factor keeping us low in the standings.

An inexperienced core lacking high end talent is the biggest issue facing this team. We can't fix this issue through trades or UFA. We are not one or two pieces away from being a cup contender, at least not this season or the past few seasons.

 

[jbeck5]

Nobody is happy with where the team is in the standings. But let's be realistic about why the team is here and recognize that the budget is not the main factor keeping us low in the standings.

An inexperienced core lacking high end talent is the biggest issue facing this team. We can't fix this issue through trades or UFA. We are not one or two pieces away from being a cup contender, at least not this season or the past few seasons.

So we cant fix it through trades or UFA and we cant fix it through draft because we never finish low enough. great.

How many 20 goal scoring forwards have we drafted in the last decade?

You're basically saying its hopeless?