Series Talk: MDSF: (3) Penguins vs. (2) Islanders - Part II

[KIRK]

So he's better for reasons that come from a spreadsheet. Gotcha.



And Maatta gets abused physically and skates like he is in quicksand. Considering they're playing the Islanders, I'd 100% take the faster physical D over the slow as **** puck mover.



So you swap out "being dangled by 4th liners" or "being out-skated by bad skaters" for "being a bad puck mover". Again, I'd rather have that.



Implying that Maatta is even remotely an offensive risk at this point. He passes the puck well, that's literally all he does. He's a nothing threat offensively.

I ******* hate Jack Johnson.

I was one of the kool aid drinkers years ago comparing Maatta to a young Teppo Numminen.

I know how much better Maatta is at moving the puck.

But, Maatta got killed so badly below the circles.

He was charmin soft. He was slow (and looked even slower). And even his decision making with the puck . . . yeah, he'd make a nice outlet if he had all day, but there were so many times he didn't and you'd see a Isles player take the puck from him as he was going through the motions of doing something.

I just don't see how you give him game 2, especially when you can't protect him because it's their building.

 

[KIRK]

Michel Therrien needs to come in and tell Maatta how soff he's played .

Michel Therrien would need to come up with a new speech for whatever Maatta was last night.

Sorry, @Empoleon8771 and I are gonna bicker over you like you're our child and we're having a divorce .

But surely you're not mad enough to want JJ in over Maatta.

I mean christ guys I'd put in Ruhwedel before doing that. At least Ruhwedel's analytics aren't straight trash and I can occasionally remember him making a breakout pass successfully.

No, I'm actually that disgusted by what I saw from Maatta last night. Hell, @ColePens, someone who may have hated the Johnson signing even more than I did, is in the same dark place.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

get ready. Olli is back for game 2.
Jack Johnson reacts to being a healthy scratch: 'It's real hard'

Mike Sullivan would rather lose this game and let his stubbornness win than admit Olli was a bad choice and will probably pray someone plays even worse than him so he can stick it to the media with an I told you so.

Fantastic.

An idiotic coach would target Maatta when he's on the ice.

Trotz is a smart coach, he's going to feast on that f***ing match-up like its a fat juicy slab of Wagyu.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What other evidence would you like me to present? Isolating on one occasion where he got beaten by Kuhnhackl is also ignoring the other 59 minutes of the game where we are exiting our zone cleaner because we have Maatta on the ice rather than JJ.

Yes, all of those clean exits that had Maatta shooting the puck down the ice for an icing.

JJ is also slower than hell. Maybe not quite as slow as Maatta, but he's definitely pylon levels of slow. If you think Maatta's speed is a problem, then JJ isn't going to address that.

Johnson is a dramatically better skater than Maatta is just because of how bad of a skater Maatta is. Johnson's speed and skating overall is fine, it's not a problem area of his. You're comparing someone with a 5 or 6 out of 10 on the skating scale to someone with a 1 or 2 on the skating scale. There's a massive difference there.

Physically JJ is definitely more imposing. I'd also contend Maatta has a much better stick and better defensive awareness in general. Much less likely to be out of position defensively.

The idea that Maatta has a better stick than Johnson is pure crazy talk. Johnson doesn't get dangled by Tom ****ing Kuhnhackl because of bad stick work. Johnson's stick work is one of his strongest attributes overall, you really think Maatta has a "much better stick" when he gets dangled by no skilled scrubs?

Passing the puck is a pretty huge part of being a defenseman, dude. We know Maatta does that well, and JJ certainly does not. This is a hell of a thing to gloss over and act like it's no big deal.

As is not being dangled by **** players, which we know Maatta does and Johnson doesn't do.

 

[Pancakes]

I just don't see how you give him game 2, especially when you can't protect him because it's their building.

I'm sorry. I just don't see how the solution to "Olli Maatta might have another bad game" is "Replace him with an even worse player".

You guys are giving me lottery ticket logic here.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Michel Therrien would need to come up with a new speech for whatever Maatta was last night.



No, I'm actually that disgusted by what I saw from Maatta last night. Hell, @ColePens, someone who may have hated the Johnson signing even more than I did, is in the same dark place.

Michel Therrien's speech would earn him a suspension if he had to react to the play of Olli Maatta.

I'm with you and @ColePens with JJ, but holy f***, I hate Olli Maatta so much on this team.

PS: I was also there with you on the Teppo comparison on Olli, I was right there with you...it feels like such a f***ing long time ago.

 

[Gurglesons]

I ******* hate Jack Johnson.

I was one of the kool aid drinkers years ago comparing Maatta to a young Teppo Numminen.

I know how much better Maatta is at moving the puck.

But, Maatta got killed so badly below the circles.

He was charmin soft. He was slow (and looked even slower). And even his decision making with the puck . . . yeah, he'd make a nice outlet if he had all day, but there were so many times he didn't and you'd see a Isles player take the puck from him as he was going through the motions of doing something.

I just don't see how you give him game 2, especially when you can't protect him because it's their building.

Because Justin Schultz looked like Justin Schultz again. And Dumo not being down for the 1st and Gudbranson not being down for the 3rd effects things.

 

[United]

I am not a fan of JJ but he is a level above OM. I genuinely think that Olli Maatta is one of the worst defencemen in the league.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I'm sorry. I just don't see how the solution to "Olli Maatta might have another bad game" is "Replace him with an even worse player".

You guys are giving me lottery ticket logic here.

The problem with this is he wasn't playing worse. He was playing much much better then what you seen of him earlier in the year . He stepped it up when games mattered .

 

[KIRK]

I'm sorry. I just don't see how the solution to "Olli Maatta might have another bad game" is "Replace him with an even worse player".

You guys are giving me lottery ticket logic here.

That wasn't a bad game.

Letang had a bad game.

Dumo had a bad game.

Sid had a bad game.

Jake had a bad game.

Maatta was bottom of the barrel god awful, as in worse in his own zone than putrid Jack Johnson mode.

That's no 'lottery logic' to say replace that garbage play with someone who may be pretty bad.

It's just acceptance of what Maatta is right now and of the reality that for as bad as Johnson can be, what Maatta is right now was next level bad compared to EVEN THAT.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hello HF Pens! I'm a Sens fan who was drafted to the Pens bandwagon on the main boards. Excited to join yinz on the Cup run. I feel like, in my position as a relative outsider, what I saw last night reminded me a lot of some of the series the Sens and Pens played. The biggest reason why Pittsburgh is so damn hard to play against in the playoffs is that the coaching staff makes adjustments that are hard to keep up with. I admittedly haven't followed the Pens all that much this year – is that still the case? Or at least, the hope? The Islanders looked good last night. But not invincible. Even Superman had his kryptonite.

Run...run you sweet naive Sens fan.

RUN as far as you can from this place, it's where hopes and dreams come to die.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I honestly don't know what game people are watching if they're saying things like Maatta has better stickwork than Johnson or Johnson is just as slow as Maatta is. There are 3 major criticisms with Johnson: he's an incredibly dumb player, he's a bad puck mover and he's a non-existent threat offensively. Anything beyond those 3 are just making stuff up to complain about him. His 1 on 1 work is downright fantastic, because of his strength, how strong he is along the boards and his stickwork. If Maatta had as good of stickwork as Johnson, he wouldn't get dangled by players like Kuhnhackl.

 

[Gurglesons]

Run...run you sweet naive Sens fan.

RUN as far as you can from this place, it's where hopes and dreams come to die.

You realize you are talking to someone that hasn’t seen a cup final since we’ve seen four and three cups right?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Run...run you sweet naive Sens fan.

RUN as far as you can from this place, it's where hopes and dreams come to die.

Heh. Implying I have hopes and dreams left to kill.

 

[Pancakes]

JJ and Maatta talk

If we're just going to ignore the stats I don't know where to go with this conversation. We can argue circles all day about my opinion on a player's physical attributes/playing style versus what your opinion is.

I don't think we will win or lose this series based on Maatta or JJ playing anyways. I don't feel like these teams are so closely matched that one player would tip the balance one way or the other. We're enough better than them that we should be able to win either player in the lineup. So ultimately...whatever. I'm not going to complain if they ultimately do go with JJ, though I can't say I'd agree with the decision either.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Heh. Implying I have hopes and dreams left to kill.

That is true, I saw the many people that rejected the job for the Senators...yikes man.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You realize you are talking to someone that hasn’t seen a cup final since we’ve seen four and three cups right?

I don't know man. Sometimes I think it's better to not know how it feels to know your team's capabilities and see it completely squander it 2yrs in a row.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't know man. Sometimes I think it's better to not know how it feels to know your team's capabilities and see it completely squander it 2yrs in a row.

Wow.

 

[Gurglesons]

I honestly don't know what game people are watching if they're saying things like Maatta has better stickwork than Johnson or Johnson is just as slow as Maatta is. There are 3 major criticisms with Johnson: he's an incredibly dumb player, he's a bad puck mover and he's a non-existent threat offensively. Anything beyond those 3 are just making stuff up to complain about him. His 1 on 1 work is downright fantastic, because of his strength, how strong he is along the boards and his stickwork. If Maatta had as good of stickwork as Johnson, he wouldn't get dangled by players like Kuhnhackl.

Jack Johnson is downright fantastic 1 on 1.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

That is true, I saw the many people that rejected the job for the Senators...yikes man.

Yup. All the more reason why I'm happy to be able to cheer for a team playing meaningful hockey! Though, I see you have some defensive woes. Almost like when Olli's on the ice, nothing else Maattas.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Something about all of this reminds me of 2013.

When a certain coach didn't want to play Tyler Kennedy vs an Islanders team that was beating us with speed and absolutely ruining us in match-ups, even though the series was tied 2-2, it didn't look good for us pulling out a win. Then a stubborn af coach swallowed his pride and made the correct line-up changes and we won 4-2 and then the next series, then reverted back to stupid in the ECF.

 

[Pancakes]

That's no 'lottery logic' to say replace that garbage play with someone who may be pretty bad.

It's just acceptance of what Maatta is right now and of the reality that for as bad as Johnson can be, what Maatta is right now was on another level from that.

What's more likely? That a player who is worse than Maatta comes in and outperforms him, or that Maatta plays more in line with what his normal level of performance is?

Like, Brian Dumoulin had almost as bad metrics analytically last night as Maatta did. But we're not going to scratch him. Nor should we, obviously.

I don't think one bad game should dictate Sullivan's decisions. If Maatta is awful in game 2, then I'd consider changes, or else use last change at home to keep him away from whatever matchup is punishing him. Or I'd probably just play Ruhwedel since he's better than JJ anyways but we know Sullivan won't go there. It will be JJ or Maatta.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yup. All the more reason why I'm happy to be able to cheer for a team playing meaningful hockey! Though, I see you have some defensive woes. Almost like when Olli's on the ice, nothing else Maattas.

Just ditch the Sens for good and join us.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Wow.

I know what you're thinking, it's not that.

I am not a fan of how this team still has the stars calling shots crap with some things, a coach that is capable of so much f***ing more but there's no one to reign in the stupid that comes along with that brilliance, and then there's the window of Sid & Geno, the older they get the more support they need and they can't even f***ing figure that out without bending over backwards to cater to them and that catering doesn't always work.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Something about all of this reminds me of 2013.

When a certain coach didn't want to play Tyler Kennedy vs an Islanders team that was beating us with speed and absolutely ruining us in match-ups, even though the series was tied 2-2, it didn't look good for us pulling out a win. Then a stubborn af coach swallowed his pride and made the correct line-up changes and we won 4-2 and then the next series, then reverted back to stupid in the ECF.

I think you're overrating this team if you think it's like 2013 tbh, although a part of that is due to the Penguins having an incredibly easy path to the ECF in 2013. I can't see the Penguins getting anywhere significant in the playoffs this year. The 2013 team also had Vokoun pulling rabbits out of his ass, I don't think Murray this year will likely do that.

This team does remind me of the 2014 team if the Penguins were playing the Rangers in the 1st round, though. A struggling Crosby, a shaky Fleury, defensive miscues due to a struggling Letang and Martin, depth that isn't productive....I can see it.