Series Talk: MDSF: (3) Penguins vs. (2) Islanders - Part II

[Empoleon8771]

The frustrating thing about Sullivan taking Johnson out of the lineup for Maatta is that Sullivan probably won't scratch Maatta unless he sucks for numerous games in a row. People can argue that it was the right or wrong decision to make the move for game 1, but I don't criticize Sullivan for making the move regardless. It was an educated move that didn't pay off like you hoped it would, I don't criticize Sullivan for playing his best players. I will, however, criticize the **** out of him if he keeps Maatta in after the performance he put up last night. It's inexcusable to play Maatta in game 2 after the way he played in game 1.

The way Johnson is talking makes me think that he's thinking that he won't be back in for a while, which is absolutely laughable after the performance Maatta had.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah, can’t believe they are scratching Desmith after Murray’s performance last night.

Yeah, because that's exactly what he meant.

 

[KIRK]

The frustrating thing about Sullivan taking Johnson out of the lineup for Maatta is that Sullivan probably won't scratch Maatta unless he sucks for numerous games in a row. People can argue that it was the right or wrong decision to make the move for game 1, but I don't criticize Sullivan for making the move regardless. It was an educated move that didn't pay off like you hoped it would, I don't criticize Sullivan for playing his best players. I will, however, criticize the **** out of him if he keeps Maatta in after the performance he put up last night. It's inexcusable to play Maatta in game 2 after the way he played in game 1.

The way Johnson is talking makes me think that he's thinking that he won't be back in for a while, which is absolutely laughable after the performance Maatta had.

This.

One can justify sitting Johnson for Maatta for game 1.

One couldn't justify sitting Iceburgh for Maatta for game 2.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You guys are nuts if you think Maatta is worse than JJ.

Let me guess, Maatta is better because of fancy stats or something.

Let me know when Johnson gets dangled by a 4th line scrub like Kuhnhackl. Let me know when Johnson gets blown away by an aging Bobby Ryan with a 5 foot handicap.

 

[BHD]

If there is a level worse than Maatta, I'd like to see it. He was a disaster defensively and a non-factor offensively.

 

[BHD]

This.

One can justify sitting Johnson for Maatta for game 1.

One couldn't justify sitting Iceburgh for Maatta for game 2.

Any - ANY - of the guys in the press box would be an improvement over Maatta.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I raised this point in the PGT last night and didn't get a response, what exactly does Maatta do well at this point? He's a terrible skater, he's not physical, he's a non-factor offensively (which shouldn't be the case because he does have some offensive talent), he's bad in 1 on 1 matchups, he's bad with his stick work....what exactly does he do? I consider him really good positionally and a good puck mover, but you'd even have people contesting the "good puck mover" part.

 

[Pancakes]

The frustrating thing about Sullivan taking Johnson out of the lineup for Maatta is that Sullivan probably won't scratch Maatta unless he sucks for numerous games in a row. People can argue that it was the right or wrong decision to make the move for game 1, but I don't criticize Sullivan for making the move regardless. It was an educated move that didn't pay off like you hoped it would, I don't criticize Sullivan for playing his best players. I will, however, criticize the **** out of him if he keeps Maatta in after the performance he put up last night. It's inexcusable to play Maatta in game 2 after the way he played in game 1.

The way Johnson is talking makes me think that he's thinking that he won't be back in for a while, which is absolutely laughable after the performance Maatta had.

Pulling Maatta after one bad performance is foolish. It's not like we have Ray Bourque waiting in the wings. The guy we would replace Olli with is by almost every measurable stat worse. I don't know why you would expect or even dare to hope things would improve by putting in a worse player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pulling Maatta after one bad performance is foolish. It's not like we have Ray Bourque waiting in the wings. The guy we would replace Olli with is by almost every measurable stat worse. I don't know why you would expect or even dare to hope things would improve by putting in a worse player.

Pulling Maatta after one bad performance isn't foolish because Maatta isn't a good defenseman.

Why are you pretending that Maatta is somehow good statistically and Johnson is somehow a "worse player"? Even if you want to judge Maatta vs Johnson purely analytically, Maatta has just as bad possession stats as Johnson has.

 

[KIRK]

If there is a level worse than Maatta, I'd like to see it. He was a disaster defensively and a non-factor offensively.

I wrote last night 'end of career Scuderi', but after I thought about it, I decided that was pretty insulting . . .

To end of career Scuderi.

 

[Trade]

Bold prediction: the Pens either tie up the series after next game or go down two games to none.

Nubstradamus? Has a good ring to it.

 

[Pancakes]

Let me guess, Maatta is better because of fancy stats or something.

Let me know when Johnson gets dangled by a 4th line scrub like Kuhnhackl. Let me know when Johnson gets blown away by an aging Bobby Ryan with a 5 foot handicap.

Yes, Maatta is indeed better because of those reasons.

You're focusing on a few isolated situations and ignoring the other parts of the game where Maatta is leading to more exits of our zone and cleaner exits of our zone than JJ would.

If we put JJ in the Islanders will generate more shots and more puck possession and our offensive players will be smothered because JJ can't move the puck. I am sure @KIRK is eager to see Malkin become a non factor again because JJ is playing behind him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I raised this point in the PGT last night and didn't get a response, what exactly does Maatta do well at this point? He's a terrible skater, he's not physical, he's a non-factor offensively (which shouldn't be the case because he does have some offensive talent), he's bad in 1 on 1 matchups, he's bad with his stick work....what exactly does he do? I consider him really good positionally and a good puck mover, but you'd even have people contesting the "good puck mover" part.

There's nothing left to justify ever playing Olli Maatta. His shot share was something like 13-10. The WORST on the team and he was directly responsible for 2 goals against. The guy is just terrible on this team. I have no issue knowing he will be a better player in the West or off of this team, but on this team, he's an abomination. I don't care if he has 500 playoff games under his belt, he's just a terrible hockey player for us.

 

[TNT87]

If there is a level worse than Maatta, I'd like to see it. He was a disaster defensively and a non-factor offensively.

He was pretty good at icing the puck with no one near him which eventually led to the third goal though. Ben Lovejoy would have been proud.

 

[Pancakes]

Pulling Maatta after one bad performance isn't foolish because Maatta isn't a good defenseman.

Why are you pretending that Maatta is somehow good statistically and Johnson is somehow a "worse player"? Even if you want to judge Maatta vs Johnson purely analytically, Maatta has just as bad possession stats as Johnson has.

He doesn't though. He edges him in both 5v5 Corsi and Corsi-Rel and this despite getting more defensive zone starts than JJ does. His XGF% is also over 50% this year while JJ's is substantially below that.

I'm not pretending Maatta is great statistically. But he is much better than JJ. I don't even see how that's debatable. If you put JJ in you're hoping JJ can be a short term shot in the arm and outperform what he has done all season. It does happen on occasion, but it would be a big leap of faith.

 

[KIRK]

Yes, Maatta is indeed better because of those reasons.

You're focusing on a few isolated situations and ignoring the other parts of the game where Maatta is leading to more exits of our zone and cleaner exits of our zone than JJ would.

If we put JJ in the Islanders will generate more shots and more puck possession and our offensive players will be smothered because JJ can't move the puck. I am sure @KIRK is eager to see Malkin become a non factor again because JJ is playing behind him.

Don't bring me into this.

BTW, Maatta also is doing more than anyone to keep the puck in our zone, from his awful skating, to slow decisions with the puck, to charmin soft play along the boards.

 

[Dinfire]

After digesting last night's game it's hard to see the team making a deep run. No switch was flipped. They played just like they have for the last month or so. That's probably not good enough to make it much past the first round. Maatta had a bad game, but so did Crosby. They won't make it past the first round if he doesn't play better than that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes, Maatta is indeed better because of those reasons.

So he's better for reasons that come from a spreadsheet. Gotcha.

You're focusing on a few isolated situations and ignoring the other parts of the game where Maatta is leading to more exits of our zone and cleaner exits of our zone than JJ would.

And Maatta gets abused physically and skates like he is in quicksand. Considering they're playing the Islanders, I'd 100% take the faster physical D over the slow as **** puck mover.

If we put JJ in the Islanders will generate more shots and more puck possession and our offensive players will be smothered because JJ can't move the puck.

So you swap out "being dangled by 4th liners" or "being out-skated by bad skaters" for "being a bad puck mover". Again, I'd rather have that.

I am sure @KIRK is eager to see Malkin become a non factor again because JJ is playing behind him.

Implying that Maatta is even remotely an offensive risk at this point. He passes the puck well, that's literally all he does. He's a nothing threat offensively.

 

[Pancakes]

Don't bring me into this.

BTW, Maatta also is doing more than anyone to keep the puck in our zone, from his awful skating, to slow decisions with the puck, to charmin soft play along the boards.

Sorry, @Empoleon8771 and I are gonna bicker over you like you're our child and we're having a divorce .

But surely you're not mad enough to want JJ in over Maatta.

I mean christ guys I'd put in Ruhwedel before doing that. At least Ruhwedel's analytics aren't straight trash and I can occasionally remember him making a breakout pass successfully.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

*Replays in my head of Maatta getting walked.

Make it stop

 

[Pancakes]

So he's better for reasons that come from a spreadsheet. Gotcha.

What other evidence would you like me to present? Isolating on one occasion where he got beaten by Kuhnhackl is also ignoring the other 59 minutes of the game where we are exiting our zone cleaner because we have Maatta on the ice rather than JJ.

And Maatta gets abused physically and skates like he is in quicksand. Considering they're playing the Islanders, I'd 100% take the faster physical D over the slow as **** puck mover.

JJ is also slower than hell. Maybe not quite as slow as Maatta, but he's definitely pylon levels of slow. If you think Maatta's speed is a problem, then JJ isn't going to address that.

Physically JJ is definitely more imposing. I'd also contend Maatta has a much better stick and better defensive awareness in general. Much less likely to be out of position defensively.

Implying that Maatta is even remotely an offensive risk at this point. He passes the puck well, that's literally all he does. He's a nothing threat offensively

Passing the puck is a pretty huge part of being a defenseman, dude. We know Maatta does that well, and JJ certainly does not. This is a hell of a thing to gloss over and act like it's no big deal.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

@Pancakes JJ has the benefit of not playing a single playoff game for us. So he's a clean slate. Whereas Olli has played quite a few and maybe we've forgotten how mediocre he was and that maybe his partners propped him up far more than we give any credit for.

At least JJ can skate and he hits, I don't really care if he is supposedly worse than Olli offensively, he really shouldn't be and his playoff numbers show he elevates his game during the playoffs.

I dislike JJ as much as the next guy, but I hate Olli that much more.

JJ isn't slow, he maybe looks that way because his brain is doing that computer clicking noise that it would do in the early 90's when it was stalling with his thought process, but I think partnering him with Justin Schultz makes his game a little more simple and make Schultz more free to play a puck movers role.

 

[vikingGoalie]

This.

One can justify sitting Johnson for Maatta for game 1.

One couldn't justify sitting Iceburgh for Maatta for game 2.

get ready. Olli is back for game 2.
Jack Johnson reacts to being a healthy scratch: 'It's real hard'

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Michel Therrien needs to come in and tell Maatta how soff he's played .

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Hello HF Pens! I'm a Sens fan who was drafted to the Pens bandwagon on the main boards. Excited to join yinz on the Cup run. I feel like, in my position as a relative outsider, what I saw last night reminded me a lot of some of the series the Sens and Pens played. The biggest reason why Pittsburgh is so damn hard to play against in the playoffs is that the coaching staff makes adjustments that are hard to keep up with. I admittedly haven't followed the Pens all that much this year – is that still the case? Or at least, the hope? The Islanders looked good last night. But not invincible. Even Superman had his kryptonite.