McKenzie's rankings aka polling 10 scouts: Top 15 pre-lottery edition

[MessierII]

Hughes is easily the best draft eligible defender after Dahlin.

Maybe but IMO he also has the highest bust potential.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Everyone is aware of this. Your point is that scouts make mistakes?

And here we are talking about evaluating potential and future perfornance which is voodoo anyway.

 

[Orca Smash]

There is no such thing as a "mistake" in McKenzie's lists. He publishes a list that reflects how the scouts that he polls ranks the players. He is not trying to predict the draft. Nor are the scouts trying to predict the draft, each of them are simply ranking the players in their opinion.

I think i clearly pointed that out that he polls scouts, everyone knows that, not sure where you got the idea i thought bob or the 15 scouts were trying to predict the draft.... I dont like or often dont agree with the rankings or player evaluations based on the scouts he polls as i mentioned prior.

Just a personal opinion... Its interesting, I am glad he does it, but i dont agree with his lists quite often (which of course are based on the scouts he asks, whoever they are every year) and I think they miss the mark on a number of players each year. Its no different whenever any publication posts rankings people either like the lists or they dont agree with it, in my case i dont often like his (Or the scouts he polls rather) and I dont think reviewing past ones they hold up to well compared to any other publication. Again just a personal opinion.

 

[Boxscore]

Maybe but IMO he also has the highest bust potential.

There's no way Hughes has as much bust potential as Ryan Merkley.

 

[Ola]

https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

I think this ranking is pretty Canadian heavy, after the top four, 7 of 11 kids are Canadians... Recon most of those scouts are NA based, which isn’t strange. Always an interesting read.

 

[ijuka]

Finally! Rasmus Kupari out of the top 15.

Watching the u-18s, it's amazing how completely ineffective he manages to be with those hands and that skating. Just has zero hockey sense and feel for the game.

 

[thrillhous]

I think i clearly pointed that out that he polls scouts, everyone knows that, not sure where you got the idea i thought bob or the 15 scouts were trying to predict the draft.... I dont like or often dont agree with the rankings or player evaluations based on the scouts he polls as i mentioned prior.

Just a personal opinion... Its interesting, I am glad he does it, but i dont agree with his lists quite often (which of course are based on the scouts he asks, whoever they are every year) and I think they miss the mark on a number of players each year. Its no different whenever any publication posts rankings people either like the lists or they dont agree with it, in my case i dont often like his (Or the scouts he polls rather) and I dont think reviewing past ones they hold up to well compared to any other publication. Again just a personal opinion.

Genuinely curious as to which publications you think hold up better.

 

[boredmale]

I think i clearly pointed that out that he polls scouts, everyone knows that, not sure where you got the idea i thought bob or the 15 scouts were trying to predict the draft.... I dont like or often dont agree with the rankings or player evaluations based on the scouts he polls as i mentioned prior.

Thing I like about Bob's list is on average he seems to get 25 first round picks right(and the 5 he doesn't get they usually picked very early in the 2nd). I think the worst he has ever done was 23 and best was 27

 

[57special]

I don't get the Denisenko love either. I would take several Russians in this class ahead of him.

Care to share?

 

[MessierII]

There's no way Hughes has as much bust potential as Ryan Merkley.

I’m talking out of the top end guys. Dobson, Bouchard, Boqvist. I don’t think Merkley is in that category. He’s more of mid to late 1st round guy not a top 10.

 

[Zaddy]

I wonder if scouts are sleeping on Kaut, or if they don't want to put him on the list they send to McKenzie because they might be thinking about taking him earlier than consensus.

 

[Castle8130]

Care to share?

The reason theres a lot of dislike on denisenko is because he doesn't always have the best positioning and uses his speed at the wrong times. He also kind of gives me yakupov vibes. He has great potential though with sick hands and blazing speed.

 

[boredmale]

I wonder if scouts are sleeping on Kaut, or if they don't want to put him on the list they send to McKenzie because they might be thinking about taking him earlier than consensus.

I have to believe the scouts giving McKenzie their lists are basing it more on what they believe the consensus is then what they think personally. I have to believe their is a few players each of these scouts rate lower then they believe they should be(once you get past the top 10-15 guys)

 

[Orca Smash]

Genuinely curious as to which publications you think hold up better.

I dont know why your taking it so personal I dont care for bob's list his scouts put together, its almost as if because its bob some cant fathom that I dont like his consensus rankings those scouts give him. I like cam robinsons list the best this year although i think i liked his rankings slightly better a few months ago but i still like his list the best, the last couple seasons I have also liked buttons better then bobs scout rankings, hockeyprospectus had the best rankings last season as far as how players are trending imo and 2016. I am not always a fan of his rankings either but 2014 i think pronmans list hold up the best although bob's scouts had an alright list that year.

Which ones do you like or just bob's?

Thing I like about Bob's list is on average he seems to get 25 first round picks right(and the 5 he doesn't get they usually picked very early in the 2nd). I think the worst he has ever done was 23 and best was 27

Again thats not what we were discussing, I am not discussing if he picks the draft order accurately, the guy i quoted even was trying to make that a point again when he quoted me. In that respect it is fairly accurate (teams do frequently have players ranked where bob's scouts do), but as far as how those rankings pan out as players and my agreement with the rankings every year, I just dont like his list the scouts he polls put together.

 

[57special]

The reason theres a lot of dislike on denisenko is because he doesn't always have the best positioning and uses his speed at the wrong times. He also kind of gives me yakupov vibes. He has great potential though with sick hands and blazing speed.

Ah, thanks. Sort of a Klostin(sic) vibe? Raw?

 

[thrillhous]

I dont know why your taking it so personal I dont care for bob's list his scouts put together, its almost as if because its bob some cant fathom that I dont like his consensus rankings those scouts give him. I like cam robinsons list the best this year although i think i liked his rankings slightly better a few months ago but i still like his list the best, the last couple seasons I have also liked buttons better then bobs scout rankings, hockeyprospectus had the best rankings last season as far as how players are trending imo and 2016. I am not always a fan of his rankings either but 2014 i think pronmans list hold up the best although bob's scouts had an alright list that year.

Which ones do you like or just bob's?

I am not taking anything personal in the slightest and I'm not a Bob defender if that's what you're suggesting. What I don't like is that people read a list and say "I don't like his lists" or "lots of mistakes here" or "so and so should be higher". As though anyone reading that post should care.

A list is a list, it's just information. One person's views or one group's views. I read all of the significant publications every year and they all have their biases and a certain level of willingness to stick their neck out (some have a hard time with it, some of them it's not even believable, it's as though they are ranking players just to be controversial for the sake of it).

 

[Castle8130]

Ah, thanks. Sort of a Klostin(sic) vibe? Raw?

Kostins more of an inconsistent player while densienko just doesn't have a lot of hockey sense (although he does have very good vision). Kostin is a heavy set dude and that's why I think he is inconsistent. It takes a lot out of him to use his energy, so you see it in small bursts. But yes, they are both raw.

 

[Fantomas]

The reason theres a lot of dislike on denisenko is because he doesn't always have the best positioning and uses his speed at the wrong times. He also kind of gives me yakupov vibes. He has great potential though with sick hands and blazing speed.

There is also a very plain reason: he had simply a bad season in the MHL. I agree with your assessment; extremely talented but where is the fit and finish? Lack of discipline and bad penalties doesn't impress either.

Among forwards I like Kravtsov, Morozov, Shafigullin more. A healthy Khovanov too.

 

[Orca Smash]

I am not taking anything personal in the slightest and I'm not a Bob defender if that's what you're suggesting. What I don't like is that people read a list and say "I don't like his lists" or "lots of mistakes here" or "so and so should be higher". As though anyone reading that post should care.

A list is a list, it's just information. One person's views or one group's views. I read all of the significant publications every year and they all have their biases and a certain level of willingness to stick their neck out (some have a hard time with it, some of them it's not even believable, it's as though they are ranking players just to be controversial for the sake of it).

But dont you think it is fair to analyze lists and have differing opinions on them, otherwise whats the point of this forum and discussing various rankings, why would i go back and look at past lists? Yes its information but its not overly useful if you just take each one at face value, i put more stock in certain lists i feel have been better at identifying certain players not on my radar or identifying flaws with a player (button is actually really good in this regard). Some people dont agree with my opinions or rankings either, its not a big deal, but when you put comments out and discuss it on a message board people are free to agree and even point out if you got it wrong on a player or disagree with your rankings of players and have differing opinions.

To your point I also disagree when reading posts on here that anyone reading it should care, some posters on here put alot of effort in and have a good track record of analyzing players with quite a bit of information. Feebster on the canucks forum for instance puts alot of effort watching games, putting together shift by shift videos. Lawson crouse for instance quite a few on here had it right when they ripped the rankings. I dont have an attitude that because they are on hfboards they know less, imo that is not always the case. Cam robinson of dobber even posts on here. Some good information is provided if you know what to look for.

Agree with the last part specifically pronmans list typically, but i did like his 2014 rankings.

 

[L13]

Tkachuk at 4 is why the Golden Knights are in the playoffs in their first season.

 

[Boxscore]

The reason theres a lot of dislike on denisenko is because he doesn't always have the best positioning and uses his speed at the wrong times. He also kind of gives me yakupov vibes. He has great potential though with sick hands and blazing speed.

Denisenko reminds me of Sergei Samsonov.

 

[Cizin]

Never heard of a guy thats a defenseman, has the point/game ratio that he does, and his size that has busted. (Evan Bouchard)

Bryan Fogarty is one, although the reasons for busting weren't due to lack of talent.

 

[lanky]

David Rundblad had outstanding SHL numbers, and good size. He also happened to be a RD with average or below average skating.

 

[VictorLustig]

David Rundblad had outstanding SHL numbers, and good size. He also happened to be a RD with average or below average skating.

He was also 20 years old

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Your opinion vs the opinion of the 10 scouts he surveyed.

Hmmm Denisenko ahead of Kravstov?

Based on the article and the list the two of them are tied meaning neither is "ahead" of the other, I'm a bit disappointed in this board seeing people comment on this without anyone pointing this simple fact out.