Rumor: McKenzie says Wings shopping Ouellet

[jkutswings]

If I thought this was part of a top-to-bottom evaluation of any and all players that could be dealt, to thoroughly do their homework (and that they'd be just as diligent in looking at guys that would actually return something), I'd be totally cool with this. SHOPPING a guy - any guy - hurts nothing, assuming they're willing to do more than kick tires, if there's a deal to be had.

But they've yet to actually move anybody outside the 'depth and spare parts' category. So if this translates into just moving Green and XO, for uninspiring results, it'll be yet another head scratcher.

Fingers crossed...

 

[TheOtherOne]

Have to see the return but i won't be too sad to lose him.

It used to be a compliment to say "our #6 defenseman is invisible. I guess he must be doing his job." But when every single defenseman outside Green is invisible at best, it starts to get a little old. Kinda makes me miss Smith- at least you noticed when he was playing.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I agree with adding picks to a rebuilding club, but the quality of those picks factored against the age and contract of player traded away during a rebuild ACTUALLY matters.

You want high picks and to dump old expensive vets(Not all of them)

Otherwise don't bother at all

 

[Redder Winger]

A rebuilding team should be trading old players for draft picks.
Not Ouellet.
Not Sheahan.
Not even Jurco.

This is f***ed.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

A rebuilding team should be trading old players for draft picks.
Not Ouellet.
Not Sheahan.
Not even Jurco.

This is ****ed.

Agreed

You trade away helm, Nielsen, Green, dekeyser, Howard

 

[Run the Jewels]

A rebuilding team should be trading old players for draft picks.
Not Ouellet.
Not Sheahan.
Not even Jurco.

This is ****ed.

I disagree with this. I mean I’m fine with trading Green, Nyquist, etc. However Sheehan, Ouellet and Jurco were all given opportunities and they are what they are. We haven’t missed any of these guys and will not miss XO. These guys have little value to the roster and have little trade value.

 

[Pavels Dog]

A rebuilding team should be trading old players for draft picks.
Not Ouellet.
Not Sheahan.
Not even Jurco.

This is ****ed.

Stop obsessing over age. You are reaching joke-poster levels of thinking there's only 1 factor that determines value of a player.

Agreed

You trade away helm, Nielsen, Green, dekeyser, Howard

No. You trade away players that aren't part of your future (next ~5 years). There's a much, much better chance all those players you mention are actually part of the team once we're competitive again than there is that XO is.

You think XO keeps a job when Cholowski, Hronek, Saarijarvi, Sambrook, Holway, Kotkansalo, Lindstrom, Hicketts etc. come pushing? That's not even including likely possibilities like a top 10 drafted D this year. In comparison, we have a lot less coming up on the forward side in the near future.

 

[Redder Winger]

I disagree with this. I mean I’m fine with trading Green, Nyquist, etc. However Sheehan, Ouellet and Jurco were all given opportunities and they are what they are. We haven’t missed any of these guys and will not miss XO. These guys have little value to the roster and have little trade value.

Jurco was given f*** all. He spent most of his last 3 years here on a line with Glendening and Miller - that's not how you develop a top 6/9 forward.
Sheahan is doing fairly well as 3C for the Penguins and outproducing Nielsen (at 5 on 5).
XO is statistically better at 24 years old than many of the veterans on this team who'll keep their job here when Detroit trades XO for a draft pick that has a 20 to 30 percent of becoming an NHL player,

 

[SirloinUB]

A rebuilding team should be trading old players for draft picks.
Not Ouellet.
Not Sheahan.
Not even Jurco.

This is ****ed.

These guys are all mediocre and replaceable.

Holland gonna holland? More like HF Gonna HF. Why does this community have to freak out any time a player under 25 gets anything other than the silver platter treatment?

Tomas Jurco??? He hasn't even played a game lol. I actually needed a good laugh to pick me up this morning. Thanks

 

[ShelbyZ]

It's more about the roster spot going forward imo. Think they expect one of the young guys to be on the team full time next year

I agree with the first part. However, the second part doesn't jive with the Wings FO at all. If Holland is truly shopping Ouellet, it's probably because he wants the $1.25M in cap space and open roster spot to sign *multiple* UFA Dmen this summer.

I will say that if they don't think Ouellet has a real bright future here, I'd rather they get something now rather than rotate him in and out of the #7 spot or coaches doghouse for 4/5 seasons like they did with Smith and Kindl, lose him on waivers for nothing like they did Marchenko, or have him give half a season worth of good play followed by a 4year extension where he regresses back into the #7 spot and doghouse also like Kindl...

 

[The Zermanator]

I don't care if they trade Ouellet or keep him. He is mediocre and his return will be mediocre.

I'm more concerned with the fact that Holland still seems to be figuring out ways to re-arrange the deck chairs on the SS Winged Wheel. Green, Tatar, Nyquist, Howard/Mrazek, etc. These are the names we should be hearing about in trade rumours. But apparently Holland still thinks 4th line/3rd pairing tweaks are the priority.

I have some hope that he continues to be very conservative, even when all the available evidence suggests a serious shakeup is needed, because he actually will be stepping down as GM after this season. But it's impossible to tell since this has been his MO for a long time.

 

[Redder Winger]

Stop obsessing over age. You are reaching joke-poster levels of thinking there's only 1 factor that determines value of a player.


No. You trade away players that aren't part of your future (next ~5 years). There's a much, much better chance all those players you mention are actually part of the team once we're competitive again than there is that XO is.

You think XO keeps a job when Cholowski, Hronek, Saarijarvi, Sambrook, Holway, Kotkansalo, Lindstrom, Hicketts etc. come pushing? That's not even including likely possibilities like a top 10 drafted D this year. In comparison, we have a lot less coming up on the forward side in the near future.

I don't know.
Do you know?
It sounds an awful lot like the people who said: We're going to have XO, Sproul, Backman, Marchenko, Jensen, Nedomlel and Fournier pushing.

Trading XO right now is stupid

Trade Green right now.
Trade Witkowski.
Ask Kronwall if he wants to finish his career with a contender..
See if there's any appetite for Jonathan Ericsson on the trade market.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Jurco was given **** all. He spent most of his last 3 years here on a line with Glendening and Miller - that's not how you develop a top 6/9 forward.

Pretty much complete BS that is extremely easy to refute. Dude got plenty of chances with guys like Datsyuk, Babcock was actually pretty stubborn about wanting Jurco to turn things around and even gave him over 70 PP minutes despite complete garbage performance (Eric Cole had more PP points in about 1/3rd the PP TOI, Helm had 350% Jurco's points in about 50% more icetime, Glendening had 50% of Jurco's points in 1/7th the PP TOI etc etc etc).

If you're going to make claims that garbage players that are no longer in the AHL were mistreated in Detroit you should back it up with evidence.

I don't know.
Do you know?
It sounds an awful lot like the people who said: We're going to have XO, Sproul, Backman, Marchenko, Jensen, Nedomlel and Fournier pushing.

Remind me: how many of those were 1st/2nd rounders? How many were actually in the AHL doing well like Hicketts/Hronek/Saarijarvi? Was that when we were a bottom 5-10 team and drafting 10+ times each year and getting top 10 picks?

And maybe most importantly, were people talking about replacing a bottom pairing d-man? Or are you drawing a false equivalence to some people thinking our D prospects would be able to replace the losses of Lidstrom/Rafalski/Stuart to the argument that we now have enough in our system to replace a guy like XO?

 

[Redder Winger]

Pretty much complete BS that is extremely easy to refute. Dude got plenty of chances with guys like Datsyuk, Babcock was actually pretty stubborn about wanting Jurco to turn things around and even gave him over 70 PP minutes despite complete garbage performance (Eric Cole had more PP points in about 1/3rd the PP TOI, Helm had 350% Jurco's points in about 50% more icetime, Glendening had 50% of Jurco's points in 1/7th the PP TOI etc etc etc).

If you're going to make claims that garbage players that are no longer in the AHL were mistreated in Detroit you should back it up with evidence.

Easy to refute?

Here are the facts:
Season 1 267 minutes with Sheahan 227 minutes with Tatar. No other forward with more than 100 minutes.
Season 2 196 minutes with Miller, 195 minutes with Sheahan, 175 minutes with Glendening, 148 minutes with Tatar, 109 minutes with Helm. No other forward with 100 minutes.
Season 3 247 minutes with Glendening, no other forward with 100 minutes.
Season 4 - No players with 100 minutes. But 68 minutes with Glendening led the way.

How to f*** up your high 2nd round draft pick, 101, taught by Mike Babcock and Jeff Blashill.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Jurco was given **** all. He spent most of his last 3 years here on a line with Glendening and Miller - that's not how you develop a top 6/9 forward.
Sheahan is doing fairly well as 3C for the Penguins and outproducing Nielsen (at 5 on 5).
XO is statistically better at 24 years old than many of the veterans on this team who'll keep their job here when Detroit trades XO for a draft pick that has a 20 to 30 percent of becoming an NHL player,

Hey, I was pushing for Jurco to be on the team back when we had Cleary, Sammy and Bert. You know, back when Holland made his “men’s league” comment. Jurco hasn’t done anything here or in Chicago. He’s not some young prospect anymore. The odds are he’ll never be a consistent roster player, let alone point producer. I’m a bit shocked there are people suggesting Holland moved on too quickly from one of his drafted players, it’s almost entirely been the opposite and we have Howie, E, DD, Abby and Helm signed to lifetime deals.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Pretty much complete BS that is extremely easy to refute. Dude got plenty of chances with guys like Datsyuk, Babcock was actually pretty stubborn about wanting Jurco to turn things around and even gave him over 70 PP minutes despite complete garbage performance (Eric Cole had more PP points in about 1/3rd the PP TOI, Helm had 350% Jurco's points in about 50% more icetime, Glendening had 50% of Jurco's points in 1/7th the PP TOI etc etc etc).

If you're going to make claims that garbage players that are no longer in the AHL were mistreated in Detroit you should back it up with evidence.


Remind me: how many of those were 1st/2nd rounders? How many were actually in the AHL doing well like Hicketts/Hronek/Saarijarvi? Was that when we were a bottom 5-10 team and drafting 10+ times each year and getting top 10 picks?

And maybe most importantly, were people talking about replacing a bottom pairing d-man? Or are you drawing a false equivalence to some people thinking our D prospects would be able to replace the losses of Lidstrom/Rafalski/Stuart to the argument that we now have enough in our system to replace a guy like XO?

Jurco's top five most frequent line combinations for the 2013-2014 season;

45.45%	EV	JURCO,TOMAS - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
5.62%	EV	BERTUZZI,TODD - JURCO,TOMAS - SHEAHAN,RILEY
4.63%	EV	ALFREDSSON,DANIEL - HELM,DARREN - JURCO,TOMAS
4.53%	EV	ALFREDSSON,DANIEL - DATSYUK,PAVEL - JURCO,TOMAS
4.01%	EV	BERTUZZI,TODD - DATSYUK,PAVEL - JURCO,TOMAS

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jurco's top five most frequent line combinations for the 2014-2015 season;

21.15%	EV	GLENDENING,LUKE - JURCO,TOMAS - MILLER,ANDREW
13.21%	EV	JURCO,TOMAS - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
6.74%	EV	JURCO,TOMAS - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK
6.09%	EV	ANDERSSON,JOAKIM - JURCO,TOMAS - MILLER,ANDREW
4.45%	EV	CLEARY,DANIEL - HELM,DARREN - JURCO,TOMAS

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jurco's top five most frequent line combinations for the 2015-2016 season;

12.89%	EV	ANDERSSON,JOAKIM - GLENDENING,LUKE - JURCO,TOMAS
9.13%	EV	GLENDENING,LUKE - HELM,DARREN - JURCO,TOMAS
8.26%	EV	JURCO,TOMAS - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
7.52%	EV	ATHANASIOU,ANDREAS - JURCO,TOMAS - NYQUIST,GUSTAV
4.43%	EV	DATSYUK,PAVEL - JURCO,TOMAS - RICHARDS,BRAD

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I personally thought Jurco was garbage, but the guy didn't get a lot of time playing with quality players.

 

[Redder Winger]

Here's the other thing.
Jurco CF with various players
13-14
Sheahan 56.33
Tatar 59.3
Alfredsson 68.75
Datsyk 57.2
Helm 62
14-15
Miller - 44.88
Sheahan 59.39
Glendening 44.93
Tatar 60.62
Helm 60.2
Zetterberg 56.5
Andersosn 50.6
Datsyuk 63,7
2015-16
Glendening 47.33
Andersson 51.89
Sheahan 56.9
Athanasiou 50.6
Tatar 64.44
RIchards 58.7
Helm 46
Nyquist 48.7
Datsyuk 60.3

A quick run through the numbers shows that in 15-16, Jurco had a positive impact on the CF of many skill players.
But that putting guys like Glendening and Jurco together wasn't just bad for Jurco, it was bad for Glendening too.

 

[Redder Winger]

Jurco's top five most frequent line combinations for the 2013-2014 season;

45.45%	EV	JURCO,TOMAS - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
5.62%	EV	BERTUZZI,TODD - JURCO,TOMAS - SHEAHAN,RILEY
4.63%	EV	ALFREDSSON,DANIEL - HELM,DARREN - JURCO,TOMAS
4.53%	EV	ALFREDSSON,DANIEL - DATSYUK,PAVEL - JURCO,TOMAS
4.01%	EV	BERTUZZI,TODD - DATSYUK,PAVEL - JURCO,TOMAS

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jurco's top five most frequent line combinations for the 2014-2015 season;

21.15%	EV	GLENDENING,LUKE - JURCO,TOMAS - MILLER,ANDREW
13.21%	EV	JURCO,TOMAS - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
6.74%	EV	JURCO,TOMAS - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK
6.09%	EV	ANDERSSON,JOAKIM - JURCO,TOMAS - MILLER,ANDREW
4.45%	EV	CLEARY,DANIEL - HELM,DARREN - JURCO,TOMAS

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jurco's top five most frequent line combinations for the 2015-2016 season;

12.89%	EV	ANDERSSON,JOAKIM - GLENDENING,LUKE - JURCO,TOMAS
9.13%	EV	GLENDENING,LUKE - HELM,DARREN - JURCO,TOMAS
8.26%	EV	JURCO,TOMAS - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
7.52%	EV	ATHANASIOU,ANDREAS - JURCO,TOMAS - NYQUIST,GUSTAV
4.43%	EV	DATSYUK,PAVEL - JURCO,TOMAS - RICHARDS,BRAD

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I personally thought Jurco was garbage, but the guy didn't get a lot of time playing with quality players.

He wasn't garbage when he started.
But he was run into the f***ing ground.

 

[Frk It]

Spent a 2nd rounder on Jurco. Got a 3rd rounder back from him. He's played 36/37 games in the AHL this year at 25 years old.

Why do we have to waste time talking about irrelevant stuff that is in the past?

 

[The Flying Octopus]

Kid is 24.
He's cheap.
Virtually every stat he has is solid and among the best on the D.
So of course we trade him.

Not saying much with this current D-core. They are below average at best, most wouldnt see top 4 minutes on a playoff team, with the exception of Green, maybe.

He's 24 and bottom pairing.
He should continue, as most defensemen do, to get better with age.

He's got the highest shots/60.
The best CF%
He's fairly physical.
He plays a lot of dzone faceoffs and still has good possession.

Tonight was more of the same from XO.

5 defensive zone faceoffs.
2 neutral zone faceoffs
1 Ozone faceoff.

He's +2

um, ya, but he's not. His upside is maxed. He's been given 2+ seasons to prove himself, and he hasn't. Does this mean he can improve, sure, but not likely. He is what he is, bottom pair D-man, on a average team.

As for being physical, are you serious? Not one person on that backend is even close to physical. They have to be one of the softest D-teams in the league.

+2

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Spent a 2nd rounder on Jurco. Got a 3rd rounder back from him. He's played 36/37 games in the AHL this year at 25 years old.

Why do we have to waste time talking about irrelevant stuff that is in the past?

Dude, did you see his youtube highlight video when he was drafted?

 

[newfy]

I'm not gonna hate seeing him go but hopefully if he is traded they get an OK return. I think he'll end up playing some pretty solid, bottom pairing minutes on another team in the league. He's a better player than Sheahan and now Sheahan is on pace for 30 points, playing special teams for the Penguins.

A 24 year old dman is jus stepping into his prime in thenext couple years, Ouellet looked good in the past and bad on this shit show team. I think he'll have a solid, long career.

 

[SirloinUB]

Good players don't disappear just because they have to play with Glendening, Miller or Booth.

Case and point: Larkin, Tatar, AA have all had success playing with "4th liners"

Simply put, you're not a good player if you can only perform when you're playing with "good" players.

You're not a good player If you can't adapt to different roles, line-mates and still find success. I'm sick of all these excuses for guys who aren't very good.

Say what you will about their contracts but Abby, DK, Helm are better players than XO, Jurco and Sheehan. It's disappointing but it is what it is.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Never really liked XO, mainly because of his skating. I don't mind traded him just for the fact it will open up a spot for someone else.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Easy to refute?

Here are the facts:
Season 1 267 minutes with Sheahan 227 minutes with Tatar. No other forward with more than 100 minutes.
Season 2 196 minutes with Miller, 195 minutes with Sheahan, 175 minutes with Glendening, 148 minutes with Tatar, 109 minutes with Helm. No other forward with 100 minutes.
Season 3 247 minutes with Glendening, no other forward with 100 minutes.
Season 4 - No players with 100 minutes. But 68 minutes with Glendening led the way.

How to **** up your high 2nd round draft pick, 101, taught by Mike Babcock and Jeff Blashill.

So I see you're following your usual MO of ignoring facts and going with your made up logic of icetime being handed out in a complete vacuum detached from actual performance.