Mcdavids or Crosby, first 3 seasons

[VainGretzky]

Does this include a breakdown of their ES vs. PP points in the playoffs?

Regualr season lol back to Playoffs all Pens fans have go ahead add those into it as well and McDavid still dominates lol

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Crosby's 2nd season gives him the edge for me.

Crosby's rookie year was better than McDavid's (whether you want to argue actual points or due to being healthy enough to reach those points). McDavid's third year was better for the same reason as above.

Crosby's second year of 120 points trumps McDavid's 100.

Plus, of the two, Crosby's the only one that put up great playoff stats by that point of their respective careers, with his 27 points in the playoffs in Year 3.

 

[authentic]

I predict that that won’t matter 30 years from now, even though I admit that it should.

Also, how do you read my post and still get triggered by that miniscule part of it? Some people are just rabid.

I'm not triggered, I'm informing you that what you said didn't make any sense. Over text I guess you could take it like I was mad or something, guess I could've worded it a bit friendlier? Lol.

What does 30 years from now have to do with this poll though? In 30 years no one will care who had the better first 3 seasons because both of their careers will be over and done with, but people will consider how they did relative to their peers and not just raw point totals, especially 30 years from now.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby put up 27 points in 20 games leading the playoffs on route to game 6 of the finals. If Crosby doesn't injury his ankle he likely wins b2b as well

 

[authentic]

Crosby's 2nd season gives him the edge for me.

Crosby's rookie year was better than McDavid's (whether you want to argue actual points or due to being healthy enough to reach those points). McDavid's third year was better for the same reason as above.

Crosby's second year of 120 points trumps McDavid's 100.

Plus, of the two, Crosby's the only one that put up great playoff stats by that point of their respective careers, with his 27 points in the playoffs in Year 3.

McDavid had a bigger lead over 2nd place (Crosby) than Crosby had over Thornton though.

 

[snipes]

For a such a defensive player, he sure was horrifyingly horrendous last night in the defensive zone. He seemed to be cheating more for offense than anything, and he was bleeding goals against. I believe 3 even strength if I'm not mistaken? Your oiler friends have also mentioned such observations in the PGT thread. His offense game is on point, but his defensive side leaves much to be desired. And please don't link me +-, such a useless stat

Edit: Here we go:

So conclusions based on one game?

What about leading the league in takeaways and dominating HDSCF and SCF metrics? You know over a whole season vs one game.

 

[daver]

McDavid had a bigger lead over 2nd place (Crosby) than Crosby had over Thornton though. Why would Crosby get the edge for a season that was arguably not even better, when McDavid is 3rd in points in his first 3 seasons compared to 16th for Crosby while playing even more games?

What are you talking about? Crosby was 3rd in points after his first 3 seasons.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

McDavid is 3rd in points in his first 3 seasons and Crosby is 16th though, despite Crosby playing in more games even if McDavid plays every remaining game.

Go ahead and take the guy who's gonna miss the playoffs over the guy whom at a younger age dominated the playoffs while leading his team to the finals. Don't be a gm though

 

[BrendanGallagher11]

Crosby
Crosby
Crosby

 

[daver]

McDavid is 3rd in points in his first 3 seasons and Crosby is 16th though, despite Crosby playing in more games even if McDavid plays every remaining game.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

McDavid had a bigger lead over 2nd place (Crosby) than Crosby had over Thornton though. Why would Crosby get the edge for a season that was arguably not even better, when McDavid is 3rd in points in his first 3 seasons compared to 16th for Crosby while playing even more games?

Why does point gap matter more than actual points?

If McDavid ends up with 110 points this year (at the rate he's going), but Kucherov ends up with 105, it's only a 5 point gap. Are you going to argue McDavid's 100 point season is more impressive than his 110 point year, all because the gap in points was smaller this year even though McDavid set career highs?

That's beyond idiotic. You're no longer actually basing it on the player's production. You're now basing "who was best" on how good the rest of the league was.

That would be like back when Lemieux got 199 points, people arguing someone who gets 140 points in a season no one got more than 110 is as or even more impressive than Lemieux's 199 season because Gretzky got 168, and Yzerman was at 155.

 

[BrendanGallagher11]

Look at there playoffs stats first 3 years and you get the answer

 

[bobholly39]

Crosby for playoffs. 2008 was huge for him

Regular season is a wash. Maybe even slightly in McDavids favor. But playoffs is a big plus for Crosby

 

[authentic]

NHL.com - Stats

Yeah I admit I messed up, I don't know where I got 16th from, must've had a typo looking it up at hockeyreference. McDavid still has the better points per game relative to his peers though and will have 2 scoring titles.

 

[bathdog]

Why does point gap matter more than actual points?

That's beyond idiotic. You're no longer actually basing it on the player's production. You're now basing "who was best" on how good the rest of the league was.

Seriously?

Pens fans push this narrative beyond hard in any other discussion.

 

[daver]

Yeah I admit I messed up, I don't know where I got 16th from, must've had a typo looking it up at hockeyreference. McDavid still has the better points per game relative to his peers though and will have 2 scoring titles.

Not fair to compare the two given Crosby had more games as rookie at a lower PPG than McDavid while McDavid had more games in his 3rd year at a higher PPG. Looking at their 2nd and 3rd seasons only, Crosby has the more impressive PPG vs. his peers.

It's obviously very close but Crosby's playoff resume gives him the edge.

 

[Dominance]

I'm not triggered, I'm informing you that what you said didn't make any sense. Over text I guess you could take it like I was mad or something, guess I could've worded it a bit friendlier? Lol.

What does 30 years from now have to do with this poll though? In 30 years no one will care who had the better first 3 seasons because both of their careers will be over and done with, but people will consider how they did relative to their peers and not just raw point totals, especially 30 years from now.

Ah, I see. One can only hope about the latter part of your statement, I guess. For the sake of discussion, is it not possible and even likely that Crosby’s peers were superior to McDavid’s?

 

[authentic]

Ah, I see. One can only hope about the latter part of your statement, I guess. For the sake of discussion, is it not possible and even likely that Crosby’s peers were superior to McDavid’s?

I would say no, it's possible but one of McDavid's peers is literally Crosby. Add Malkin still putting up basically equal numbers and the rest of the young emerging talent in the league it is more likely IMO that McDavid's competition is better. There is no clear edge there for either one though.

 

[daver]

Slightly off-topic, here is how I would rate Crosby, McDavid, Malkin and OV for their first three years.

After their Rookie season
OV
Crosby
McDavid/Malkin

After their 2nd Seasons
Crosby
McDavid/OV
Malkin

After their 3rd seasons
Crosby
OV/McDavid/Malkin

 

[daver]

I would say no, it's possible but one of McDavid's peers is literally Crosby. Add Malkin still putting up basically equal numbers and the rest of the young emerging talent in the league it is more likely IMO that McDavid's competition is better. There is no clear edge there for either one though.

Take a large enough peer group of the next Top 20 scorers and this is irrelevant.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

McDavid had a bigger lead over 2nd place (Crosby) than Crosby had over Thornton though.

That has to do with missed games from Crosby both times.

 

[Regal]

For a such a defensive player, he sure was horrifyingly horrendous last night in the defensive zone. He seemed to be cheating more for offense than anything, and he was bleeding goals against. I believe 3 even strength if I'm not mistaken? Your oiler friends have also mentioned such observations in the PGT thread. His offense game is on point, but his defensive side leaves much to be desired. And please don't link me +-, such a useless stat

Edit: Here we go:

Plus minus is a poor stat but in general a player's affect on goal differential is one of the biggest points of value. McDavid's actual in-zone defensive game might not be great. Like Crosby he will cheat a bit, though he's a good backchecker and good with his stick. But in terms of tilting the ice for his team, hes better at even strength than Crosby was his first three years.

 

[Regal]

Crosby's 2nd season gives him the edge for me.

Crosby's rookie year was better than McDavid's (whether you want to argue actual points or due to being healthy enough to reach those points). McDavid's third year was better for the same reason as above.

Crosby's second year of 120 points trumps McDavid's 100.

Plus, of the two, Crosby's the only one that put up great playoff stats by that point of their respective careers, with his 27 points in the playoffs in Year 3.

Crosby was a little more productive relative to the league in '07, but it's not close to a 120 to 100 point difference

 

[Thenameless]

Neutral fan here that likes both. From the above arguments, it really seems pretty close.

Try to imagine McDavid on those Penguins teams, and then do the same for Crosby on today's Oilers teams and you'd probably envision similar results either way.

McDavid, if he stays healthy, has a chance to open up a bit of a regular season gap in the coming years, as Crosby hits his injury-riddled seasons. Crosby winning the Cup in 09 with his great performance should help his side of the argument if Edmonton keeps having trouble as a team.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Crosby was a little more productive relative to the league in '07, but it's not close to a 120 to 100 point difference

More than just a little. Scoring was only 5.5% higher in 06-07 than 16-17.