McDavid vs. arrival of Chiarelli/McLellan

[Philly85*]

Chia said he would have come to Edmonton even if the Oilers hadn't won the lottery. I heard it with my own two ears.

you hear what you want to hear. Sure he may have considered it, but McDavid was the deciding factor clearly... anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. Not that it matters either cuz what's done is done, but don't think the organization was on the up and up without McDavid, and that the job was some sort of hot commodity before hand.

Things were a complete and utter disaster. Quite frankly things are still completely questionable even with the new coach and GM. Still a long road to hoe. And yes, MacT and Lowe (the stench) continue to linger around, along with Howson, which is disappointing. These bums should be banished forever.

 

[McShogun99]

you hear what you want to hear. Sure he may have considered it, but McDavid was the deciding factor clearly... anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. Not that it matters either cuz what's done is done, but don't think the organization was on the up and up without McDavid, and that the job was some sort of hot commodity before hand.

Things were a complete and utter disaster. Quite frankly things are still completely questionable even with the new coach and GM. Still a long road to hoe. And yes, MacT and Lowe (the stench) continue to linger around, along with Howson, which is disappointing. These bums should be banished forever.

Maybe Chia would have came here without Mcdavid but the second the Oiler's won the lottery Chia probably would have signed any offer the Oilers gave him. I doubt we sign Mcllelan or Sekera without Mcdavid.

 

[rboomercat90]

Chia said he would have come to Edmonton even if the Oilers hadn't won the lottery. I heard it with my own two ears.

Do you really think he would of said anything different when he was asked that question? Both Lowe and Mactavish are still here. If it wasn't Macdavid, then what was the draw?

 

[The Human Torch]

That would be true if they really got rid of them.

You honestly think someone as experienced as Chiarelli really came here to be a mouthpiece for Lowe and MacT's moves in the background instead of sitting at home and getting paid by Boston to do nothing? If we'd hired another fomer Oiler as a rookie GM (Boston, I'm looking in your direction) then I'd believe it, but otherwise that's a big bucket of nope.

 

[Soundwave]

McDavid is the greatest thing to happen to the franchise (and maybe even the city) since May of 1990, well probably actually more like May of 1988. And yes that includes Pronger and the 2006 Cinderella run.

Everyone else should just consider themselves lucky to have a ticket on the train if they're involved in the organization. To me it's really that simple.

 

[Hoogaar23]

you hear what you want to hear. Sure he may have considered it, but McDavid was the deciding factor clearly... anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. Not that it matters either cuz what's done is done, but don't think the organization was on the up and up without McDavid, and that the job was some sort of hot commodity before hand.

I'm with you. It's all just conjecture at this point, but I firmly believe that if someone else wins the lottery, MacT is still GM, Nelson would be the coach, and Sekera would not have signed here.

MacT looked pretty comfortable when he let us know next year was another development year.

 

[MinimaMoralia]

I tend to believe that things would have unfolded much as they have this past off-season, even without that golden card. At the end of last season, there was more than the bitter disappointment that usually follows an Oiler season, there was palpable anger in the city.
Change was in the air. Media both local and abroad were viciously and unrelentingly ripping apart our management. And then MacT had to say two of the of the most regrettable words he has ever uttered, 'developmental year.' Those two magic words galvanized his detractors and infuriated Oiler fans everywhere. You can't have your general manager come out and very publicly say he expects to lose a whole lot more, when it is specifically his job to prevent that from happening.
So, I say things would have progressed much as they have, though with Noah Hanifin instead of The Saviour.
I believe Chia would still have become our new GM. He was on the outs with Boston, and saw a good opportunity in rebuilding Edmonton. And, in return, Nicholson saw a good fit in Chia. We had the pieces and needed someone to put them together, Chia has proven he can do that.
I still contend we would have landed McLellan or Babcock. Even without Connor, having a line-up with tantalizing, enigmatic young players like Hall, RNH, Yak and Nurse is appealing for any NHL coach.
I even think there was a strong possibility we would have had a chance at Sekera. Though, we almost undoubtedly would have had to pay much more than we did.

 

[Dorian2]

They are still around.

And pulling strings in the background.

When are you guys taking off the bags?

I think you can at this point, but you will probably wait till what?

The playoffs.

I think one of you may have mentioned that at some point anyways.

 

[Up the Irons]

That would be true if they really got rid of them.

hey man, do you have to rain on my parade with facts?

seriously, tho, while having those idiots still on the payroll is not ideal, I do believe they are out of harm's why. Mact and Howson are glorified scouts. I wouldn't be surprised if both are gone once their contracts expire. And Lowe has Laforge's old job.

But, yes, ideally, they'd completely out of the organization.

 

[McGoMcD]

The thing is next year Mclellan and Chia might together win more games than McDavid, but in the long run it will always be McDavid. You just can't compare coaches and GM's to a talent like McD on the ice.

I actually have faith this team would have turned it around next year even with out any of the above and eventually made the playoffs. However the rebuild clearly wasn't going to be a huge success, McDavid, Chia and McLellan will make it a home run success in the next few years.

 

[Mr Positive]

Do you really think he would of said anything different when he was asked that question? Both Lowe and Mactavish are still here. If it wasn't Macdavid, then what was the draw?

Nicholson cleaned house precisely because the team wasn't happy about where the OBC was leading the team. Our team had appeal in that a guy like Chiarelli can come in and take complete control away from them. Not many other teams out there could offer him to be both GM and President, and that was by far the biggest issue for Chia. He was frustrated by the meddling of his president in Boston.

Also, every year knowledgeable people remark about the great young talent on the Oilers. We have been an awful team, but there's a lot of great raw material for a GM to work with here, even without McDavid. A team with players like Hall, RNH, Yak, Klefbom, Schultz, and Eberle should be able to be a perrenial playoff team with the right support.

 

[Philly85*]

They haven't "cleaned house" though. Be more accurate in what you're saying. They've shuffled the deck of chairs and a few guys have taken different roles within the organization.

 

[Mr Positive]

They haven't "cleaned house" though. Be more accurate in what you're saying. They've shuffled the deck of chairs and a few guys have taken different roles within the organization.

Eakins has been fired, likely from the direct input from Nicholson

Lowe is not in charge of any hockey decisions any more and is focused on business stuff now.

MacT is an assistant GM, only here because Chiarelli wishes it.

So you are technically right that he didn't clean house, but the effect is the same. This is pretty much the most aggressively Nicholson could have done this considering that the people removed from power were important parts of our team's history. A lot of fans might have wanted them to be publicly fired and banished completely, but in the long run it wouldn't look good on us.

 

[Stoneman89]

you hear what you want to hear. Sure he may have considered it, but McDavid was the deciding factor clearly... anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. Not that it matters either cuz what's done is done, but don't think the organization was on the up and up without McDavid, and that the job was some sort of hot commodity before hand.

Things were a complete and utter disaster. Quite frankly things are still completely questionable even with the new coach and GM. Still a long road to hoe. And yes, MacT and Lowe (the stench) continue to linger around, along with Howson, which is disappointing. These bums should be banished forever.

Not giving the other poster you were quoting any credit, but, we all hear what we want to hear, no matter how different. The fact is, I doubt we'll ever really know what the intentions were, before or after. I'm just glad both things happened.

 

[Stoneman89]

Eakins has been fired, likely from the direct input from Nicholson

Lowe is not in charge of any hockey decisions any more and is focused on business stuff now.

MacT is an assistant GM, only here because Chiarelli wishes it.

So you are technically right that he didn't clean house, but the effect is the same. This is pretty much the most aggressively Nicholson could have done this considering that the people removed from power were important parts of our team's history. A lot of fans might have wanted them to be publicly fired and banished completely, but in the long run it wouldn't look good on us.

Pure speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if Chia wanted MacT's arse out of here, but Katz sent down word that he wanted Curly to be let down easy. Move him out of a position of any authority, but keep him around doing something that he thinks is actually meaningful, and try to pretend you're listening to his advice. Eventually he'll probably get tired of being a symbolic showpiece and move on of his own accord.

The one that scares me is Bucky, lingering and perculating down south as an assistant, ready to pounce. The virtual cat with nine lives.

 

[K1984]

Eakins has been fired, likely from the direct input from Nicholson

Lowe is not in charge of any hockey decisions any more and is focused on business stuff now.

MacT is an assistant GM, only here because Chiarelli wishes it.

So you are technically right that he didn't clean house, but the effect is the same. This is pretty much the most aggressively Nicholson could have done this considering that the people removed from power were important parts of our team's history. A lot of fans might have wanted them to be publicly fired and banished completely, but in the long run it wouldn't look good on us.

And he cleaned out the scouts, which didn't appear like it was going to happen with MacT. He seemed comfortable making the classic Oiler move of not firing anyone, but simply creating a position above them.

Dumping a useless relic like Semenko (love him as a player, not a scout) was a clear indication to me that OBC is over and Chia is running the show. There isn't a chance in hell that he would have been fired by MacT or Lowe.

 

[Tw0Shoes]

Chia said he would have come to Edmonton even if the Oilers hadn't won the lottery. I heard it with my own two ears.

Yep. And they were also talking about Mclellan taking over the Oilers bench before they got McDavid, on account of MacT and Mclellan's kids playing together.

 

[Narnia]

Yep. And they were also talking about Mclellan taking over the Oilers bench before they got McDavid, on account of MacT and Mclellan's kids playing together.

Apparently MacT had talked to McLellan shortly after he left SJ so there was the chance of McLellan coming to Edmonton to coach prior to the Oilers winning the lottery.

 

[McGoMcD]

People vastly overstate how bad Lowe and MacT were. Ya I said it. The thing is the rebuild was planned, planned by Lowe. It took longer than expected and had some twists and turns a long the way. I think Nicholson more than anything realized that Chia was there and could get the rebuild done quickly. There is no distrust of Lowe or MacT and their shouldn't be. People are just being impatient. Rebuilds take time, thats basically the bottom line.

 

[rboomercat90]

People vastly overstate how bad Lowe and MacT were. Ya I said it. The thing is the rebuild was planned, planned by Lowe. It took longer than expected and had some twists and turns a long the way. I think Nicholson more than anything realized that Chia was there and could get the rebuild done quickly. There is no distrust of Lowe or MacT and their shouldn't be. People are just being impatient. Rebuilds take time, thats basically the bottom line.

I suppose you can use the rebuild to excuse Lowe's performance as an executive if you really want to. I personally don't buy it because his string of awful hires is impossible for me to ignore. There is no over stating how bad Mactavish was though. According to both Lowe and Mactavish, this team was ready to turn the corner when Mactavish was hired as GM. Not only did they not do that, they went backwards under Mactavish.

The real smoking gun to Mac T's brutal performance is that Nicholson had to step in back in December to prevent him from doing who knows what he was planning and get some order back into the team. There were all kinds of rumors floating around that weekend and Nicholson put an end to them. Don't know how much more proof that Mactavish was off the rails than that and that he was about to do something stupid that the guys above him wouldn't stand for.

 

[Up the Irons]

People vastly overstate how bad Lowe and MacT were. Ya I said it. The thing is the rebuild was planned, planned by Lowe. It took longer than expected and had some twists and turns a long the way. I think Nicholson more than anything realized that Chia was there and could get the rebuild done quickly. There is no distrust of Lowe or MacT and their shouldn't be. People are just being impatient. Rebuilds take time, thats basically the bottom line.

Calgary says hi.

Lowe took the lazy hire at every opportunity. He's not an exec. In fact, most ex-players are not execs, hence, we are seeing more lawyers and agents getting jobs, and players are assistants or consultants.

Lowe's managment style was 10 or 20 years behind the times. Not all decisions were debilitating (ie. insisting Bucky and Smith stay on as assistants), but one was crushing (lazily handing the team to Mact)

 

[Cizin]

Calgary says hi.

Lowe took the lazy hire at every opportunity. He's not an exec. In fact, most ex-players are not execs, hence, we are seeing more lawyers and agents getting jobs, and players are assistants or consultants.

Lowe's managment style was 10 or 20 years behind the times. Not all decisions were debilitating (ie. insisting Bucky and Smith stay on as assistants), but one was crushing (lazily handing the team to Mact)

Plus the scouting and drafting performance has been abysmal, especially considering their draft position. Nine years in rebuild mode is not something anyone plans on purpose.

 

[McShogun99]

Calgary says hi.

Lowe took the lazy hire at every opportunity. He's not an exec. In fact, most ex-players are not execs, hence, we are seeing more lawyers and agents getting jobs, and players are assistants or consultants.

Lowe's managment style was 10 or 20 years behind the times. Not all decisions were debilitating (ie. insisting Bucky and Smith stay on as assistants), but one was crushing (lazily handing the team to Mact)

Buffalo went scorched earth rebuild and it looks like it will only be a 2, maybe 3 year max rebuild. We're at 9 years and counting, 5 years if you ask Lowe.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

People vastly overstate how bad Lowe and MacT were. Ya I said it. The thing is the rebuild was planned, planned by Lowe. It took longer than expected and had some twists and turns a long the way. I think Nicholson more than anything realized that Chia was there and could get the rebuild done quickly. There is no distrust of Lowe or MacT and their shouldn't be. People are just being impatient. Rebuilds take time, thats basically the bottom line.

Lowe has the worst record of futility as an executive in NHL history.

Let that sink in.

9 years without playoffs IS the record for a single executive to remain unemployed in any organization in NHL history.


It's not hyperbole, and it's not exaggeration.


Statistically, he was the worst executive in NHL history.

Nothing you say will remove that as a fact.

 

[McIce Whole]

Calgary says hi.

Lowe took the lazy hire at every opportunity. He's not an exec. In fact, most ex-players are not execs, hence, we are seeing more lawyers and agents getting jobs, and players are assistants or consultants.

Lowe's managment style was 10 or 20 years behind the times. Not all decisions were debilitating (ie. insisting Bucky and Smith stay on as assistants), but one was crushing (lazily handing the team to Mact)

Calgary didn't rebuild. They retooled. They tried to make the playoffs, couldn't do it. Drafted high a couple of times (Monahan and Bennett) and went back for the playoffs. If you look at their team, they aren't full of young players or anything compared to Edmonton. Monahan, Bennett and Guadreau are all under 23 that will be on their starting roster. They acquired Hamilton who is 22. Arguably their 2 best players last season, Gio and Hudler are 31. Wideman had a great season offensively...he's 32. Hiller is 33. They got a lot of production from their vets. The Oilers have Hall, RNH, Yak, Mcdavid, Klef (maybe Drai and Nurse) that will be on the starting roster and are 23 or younger. We don't have the vet support that Calgary does.

I'm not trying to bash the Flames. I respect them for what they did last season and the acquisition of Hamilton was solid but to say they did a rebuild is incorrect IMO.