McDavid and Draisaitl are best duo in league? (Gretzky compares them to Gretzky-Messier)

[bobholly39]

They're really a great duo.
Still not sure they're better than Crosby/Malkin though. But I have a thing for experience, and i still believe that Malkin at his best can go toe to toe with anyone in this league. And - i still believe Crosby > McDavid if i have to pick one for one game, or one series, etc. So - it's with conditions. In a vacuum, Drai/McDavid are simply playing better and producing more more often, easily so.

I always knew McDavid was great - i'm starting to really wonder how good Drai is though. I have to say - he's turning out better than I thought he was. I don't think he'll ever be as good as Malkin (not today, i mean peak/prime Malkin) - but it looks like he may come a lot closer than i ever thought.

Crosby/Malkin may be the greatest duo in hockey's history because they were 1A/1B. Gretzky/Messier was never 1A/1B, it was always 1/2. I never really believed McDavid/Drai could be 1A/1B, it's more a clear 1/2. But if they can become 1A/1B and if Drai is better than i thought - i think this could mean long-term success for that team.

 

[iCanada]

It is Messier's meanstreak that should be "respected", it was of another world, not comparable.

You have to compare it to what else is around the league though.

In Messier's days you had guys like Semenko and Probert playing 20 minutes a night on any given club in the league with a few other enforcers on both clubs dressed. You had guys knocking eachother down and proceeding to start a lawn mower on a dudes face on the ice. You had games with multiple line brawls...



You dont have any of that today. So relative to the rest of the league today, Drai has a Messierian meanstreak. Certainly more of a meanstreak than Kurri.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I stand by everything I wrote in my post above. You have convinced me of nothing.

I am a big Coffey fan, by the way, and I watched him regularly from the mid-1980s to the late 1990s.

As to your funny math, you are kind of overlooking a few obvious points:

-- Gretzky in 1981 had the highest-scoring season in NHL history (164 points, still eligible for Junior hockey) when Coffey was a 32-point rookie. Are you arguing it was Coffey who helped Gretzky jump from 137 to 164 points?

-- In 1983, Gretzky "declined" from 212 points to 196, while Coffey improved from 89 to 96. Where's the correlation?

-- You mention 1987 as if it was a sub-par Gretzky season, simply because he didn't score 200 points. In fact, that season he won the scoring title by the largest percentage of his entire career. He then had a 7 point game in the playoffs when Coffey was injured. (There is a Sports Illustrated article -- you can Google it -- where the writer argues that 1987 was Gretzky's greatest-ever season.) Also, Gretzky had basically rested up and floated through the final 5 games of that season, getting ready for the playoffs and trying to overcome fatigue. (He scored 2 points and went -8 in the last five games.) Before those final five games of relaxing, Gretzky was pacing for 196 points, exactly the same as in 1983 when Coffey was healthy all year.

-- Most obviously: You're overlooking the rather huge fact that Gretzky's PPG improved the first season after Coffey in Edmonton (1987-88). Even with Coffey playing 50-odd games in Pittsburgh, Gretzky would have won the scoring title without him.

Here were Wayne and Mario's numbers after 38 games each (when Gretzky went down to injury):
1. Gretzky 86
2. Lemieux 80
(That was after Mario had played maybe a dozen games with Coffey.)

Here were Wayne and Mario's numbers in each player's final 24 games:
1. Gretzky 56
2. Lemieux 56
(Lemieux played all his games with Coffey.)

So... care to revise your Thesis?


Look, Coffey was an amazing talent who clearly boosted the offence of all teams he played for in his prime. But it is simply not the case that a fully functioning Coffey was required for Gretzky or Lemieux to post huge seasons. Before Coffey cracked 90 points, Gretzky scored 212. And after Coffey was traded from Pittsburgh, Lemieux had his biggest per-game season (1992-93). And Gretzky's PPG improved the season after Coffey was traded.

Not sure why I'm pointing this out, as you'll no doubt willfully ignore these facts.

Ya. Gretzky was obviously dominating Lemieux. Blowing him away by at least 40 points.

Carry on.

Edit: Just so we are clear.

79

62

121

183

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

63

54

53

107

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That is domination.

78

54

114

168

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

76

85

114

199

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That is not. That is called losing the scoring race.

 

[Kevs Security]

Yeah but the thing is, much like Gretzky, McDavid too is a system qb. Without a great coach he will never win a championship.

 

[Paralyzer]

Yeah but the thing is, much like Gretzky, McDavid too is a system qb. Without a great coach he will never win a championship.

Well thankfully, Tippett has been great for him and he's showing it with a 7-1 record currently. Early, I know, but you can see that the Oilers are actually playing as a TEAM and not always relying on McDavid and Draisaitl to do the work (ie. Defensive side of things and keeping the forecheck going even if they are not scoring). If the team was being hemmed in all the time and they had to win 3-4 goal games, I wouldn't be saying this. But you can clearly see they are a much better team than people are giving them credit this time around.

 

[Blender]

Definitely one of the best duos in the league.

I don't know why anyone takes Gretzky's comments seriously or posts them though.

 

[McDNicks17]

I haven't watched any Oil hockey but if they 1C and 2C then 1-2 punch might have been a better thread title

Gretz might want to see a playoff series win before he gets to giddy

They don't play for the Leafs.

 

[mouz135]

Those two are gonna be burnt out by New Years playing this many minutes. As usual. Coach is an idiot, but alas he has no other options because Chia screwed the pooch.
Oilers play will fall off soon enough

 

[Trap Jesus]

Did Wayne just compare Mcdavid to Brent Gretzky!? He's at it again...

How hilarious would it be if all these times people got on Gretzky for false modesty for saying someone was the next Gretzky, he was actually trying to be a douchebag and compare them to Brent.

 

[Jtown]

Lets see them play apart before ranking them ahead of some of the better duos in the league.

 

[Austerlitz]

They're really a great duo.
Still not sure they're better than Crosby/Malkin though. But I have a thing for experience, and i still believe that Malkin at his best can go toe to toe with anyone in this league. And - i still believe Crosby > McDavid if i have to pick one for one game, or one series, etc. So - it's with conditions. In a vacuum, Drai/McDavid are simply playing better and producing more more often, easily so.

I always knew McDavid was great - i'm starting to really wonder how good Drai is though. I have to say - he's turning out better than I thought he was. I don't think he'll ever be as good as Malkin (not today, i mean peak/prime Malkin) - but it looks like he may come a lot closer than i ever thought.

Crosby/Malkin may be the greatest duo in hockey's history because they were 1A/1B. Gretzky/Messier was never 1A/1B, it was always 1/2. I never really believed McDavid/Drai could be 1A/1B, it's more a clear 1/2. But if they can become 1A/1B and if Drai is better than i thought - i think this could mean long-term success for that team.

I think you are right that Crosby/Malkin is the best duo ever (if only in terms of longevity. Messier only played center fulltime for a handful of seasons before Gretzky was traded).

But what I liked about 99 and 11 was the change-up aspect of it. Gretzky was a slippery, offensive wizard and Byng candidate. Messier was a raging bull on skates, big, strong, fast, dirty as hell and 200-foot monster. How do you defend those different looks shift-after-shift?

 

[Snauen]

You have to compare it to what else is around the league though.

In Messier's days you had guys like Semenko and Probert playing 20 minutes a night on any given club in the league with a few other enforcers on both clubs dressed. You had guys knocking eachother down and proceeding to start a lawn mower on a dudes face on the ice. You had games with multiple line brawls...



You dont have any of that today. So relative to the rest of the league today, Drai has a Messierian meanstreak. Certainly more of a meanstreak than Kurri.

Thanks for the old clip. Still disagree whit you. There where more hockeyplayer-thugs thoose days for sure, Messier was still a very noticable and meaner thug than many of them. Draisaitl has zero penalty mins. so far this season, whitin a league that is cracking down hard on cheapshots, something Messier was a specialist in. Kurri is more comparable to Draisaitl, end of discussion.

 

[HugginThePost]

You have to compare it to what else is around the league though.

In Messier's days you had guys like Semenko and Probert playing 20 minutes a night on any given club in the league with a few other enforcers on both clubs dressed. You had guys knocking eachother down and proceeding to start a lawn mower on a dudes face on the ice. You had games with multiple line brawls...



You dont have any of that today. So relative to the rest of the league today, Drai has a Messierian meanstreak. Certainly more of a meanstreak than Kurri.

You can't be serious......

The same Drai that wouldn't even answer the bell with Matthew "The Coward" Tkachuk?

Sure he's a big guy, but he certainly doesn't use it....I mean he averages 0.5 hits a game over his career.

He is absolutely nothing like Messier. If he was even half as scary as Mess was, he'd be terrorizing this league.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Meh McDavid is the best player in the league. You could replace Drais with any of the other top 30-50 wingers in the league and the result would be the same. Drais is great, dont get me wrong, but lets not pretend they're both pulling equal weight here. its all McDavid.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

They probably are. Gretzky and Messier didn't play on the same line though.

 

[Smartguy]

They're really a great duo.
Still not sure they're better than Crosby/Malkin though. But I have a thing for experience, and i still believe that Malkin at his best can go toe to toe with anyone in this league. And - i still believe Crosby > McDavid if i have to pick one for one game, or one series, etc. So - it's with conditions. In a vacuum, Drai/McDavid are simply playing better and producing more more often, easily so.

I always knew McDavid was great - i'm starting to really wonder how good Drai is though. I have to say - he's turning out better than I thought he was. I don't think he'll ever be as good as Malkin (not today, i mean peak/prime Malkin) - but it looks like he may come a lot closer than i ever thought.

Crosby/Malkin may be the greatest duo in hockey's history because they were 1A/1B. Gretzky/Messier was never 1A/1B, it was always 1/2. I never really believed McDavid/Drai could be 1A/1B, it's more a clear 1/2. But if they can become 1A/1B and if Drai is better than i thought - i think this could mean long-term success for that team.

They may not be better then Malkin/Crosby because those 2 are not overly a duo, but more 2 great individual players who compliment each other well. The sedins are the last players that I can think of that liked to be together and can completely control the game together. Mcdavid and Draisaitl are both great individual players, but together they not only put up points they completely control the game when they are on the ice. Literally all the Oilers need to do to compete is just keep the puck out of your net when they are not on the ice.

 

[HugginThePost]

To answer the question......they are a great duo. Hell, fantastic even.

Are they benefiting from playing crazy minutes and a butter soft start to the schedule, of course.

There are three forwards in the top 50 ice time leaders.....McDavid and Drai are two of them.

The teams they have played so far this season have an average win% of 0.40.

Let's wait until they actually play some "good" teams over the course of the year.

Can we call them the next Gretzky/Messier....hell no. The only thing that is comparable between that group of players is the sweater they put on.

We may just want to hold off on all this "he's as dominant as Gretzky" talk as well. I mean as good as McDavid is, and we all know he is, he's currently tied in points with a defenseman. Yet everyone is talking about him tearing the league a new asshole this year.

The fact is he's never going to dominate the points race like Gretz and Mario did. There is always going to be someone in the "hunt' along with him.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Meh McDavid is the best player in the league. You could replace Drais with any of the other top 30-50 wingers in the league and the result would be the same. Drais is great, dont get me wrong, but lets not pretend they're both pulling equal weight here. its all McDavid.

let’s not pretend that this post has a clue what’s going on. What a bad take.

 

[sr edler]

Gretzky praise is 1.50 reasonable praise.

Draisaitl is fantastic though.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Meh McDavid is the best player in the league. You could replace Drais with any of the other top 30-50 wingers in the league and the result would be the same. Drais is great, dont get me wrong, but lets not pretend they're both pulling equal weight here. its all McDavid.

Ooooof. It must be tough being that wrong.

Drai has been the best player on the Oilers this year.

 

[Kranix]

Wayne also said the 40 year old guy learning to skate on the outdoor rink was a better one-two punch than himself and Messier.

 

[McFlash97]

Meh McDavid is the best player in the league. You could replace Drais with any of the other top 30-50 wingers in the league and the result would be the same. Drais is great, dont get me wrong, but lets not pretend they're both pulling equal weight here. its all McDavid.

Then comes " that guy" that claims skittles falls out of the sky...

 

[snipes]

Meh McDavid is the best player in the league. You could replace Drais with any of the other top 30-50 wingers in the league and the result would be the same. Drais is great, dont get me wrong, but lets not pretend they're both pulling equal weight here. its all McDavid.

Doesn’t watch the Oilers confirmed.

 

[Jeti]

Messier actually played center though

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Off night, but we’re still the best players on the ice.