McDavid and Draisaitl are best duo in league? (Gretzky compares them to Gretzky-Messier)

McNurse

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Sep 2, 2015
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Gretzky is annoying humble at this point. Sometimes you wonder if he’s being sarcastic. Not so much this specific time but in the past. Even this is pretty far fetch though
He always says so and so are the best players ever or the best in the league, I always take what he says with a grain of salt lmao always seems like praises everybody
 

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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The day they traded Coffey was the end of Gretzkys' dominance.
Actually, no. In fact, 1988-89 is the only season between 1984 and 1991 in which Lemieux had any dominance over Gretzky... and Gretzky was in his first year with a new club. Coffey was traded in 1987. The season Coffey was traded (and didn't play for Edmonton at all), Gretzky had a higher PPG than Lemieux. Two seasons later, they were about even (Gretzky led the first three months, Lemieux caught up and surpassed Wayne eventually, Wayne won the scoring title), and in 1990-91 Gretzky had a higher PPG as well.

Nice revisionism attempt, though.
 
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The Panther

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They are now first in the league with an abysmal lineup.
The Oilers do not have an abysmal line-up. I would rate the following players as at or above NHL-average level (given their respective roles):
- McDavid
- Draisaitl
- Neal
- Klefbom
- Nugent-Hopkins
- Kassian
- Nurse
- Bear
- K. Russell
- Chaission
- Persson
- Koskinen
- Smith

Hell, even the fans' favorite whipping-boy, Matt Benning, has looked quite good this year, but it's too early for me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Every team in the League would find room for all of those guys, I suspect.
 

GodPucker

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Sep 27, 2017
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Holland will shore up that bottom 6. I would rather have the bottom 6 as an issue than not have superstars. Plus Nurse and Bear are really emerging on D. Larsson has been out since game 1. I expect some moves quickly this season if they present themselves.

Best line tonight was line #2. Hopkins was great.
 

DJN21

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Aug 8, 2011
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The Oilers do not have an abysmal line-up. I would rate the following players as at or above NHL-average level (given their respective roles):
- McDavid
- Draisaitl
- Neal
- Klefbom
- Nugent-Hopkins
- Kassian
- Nurse
- Bear
- K. Russell
- Chaission
- Persson
- Koskinen
- Smith

Hell, even the fans' favorite whipping-boy, Matt Benning, has looked quite good this year, but it's too early for me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Every team in the League would find room for all of those guys, I suspect.
I'll give props to a fan being able to name their own line-up top to bottom...
 

ThePhoenixx

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Aug 7, 2005
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Actually, no. In fact, 1988-89 is the only season between 1984 and 1991 in which Lemieux had any dominance over Gretzky... and Gretzky was in his first year with a new club. Coffey was traded in 1987. The season Coffey was traded (and didn't play for Edmonton at all), Gretzky had a higher PPG than Lemieux. Two seasons later, they were about even (Gretzky led the first three months, Lemieux caught up and surpassed Wayne eventually, Wayne won the scoring title), and in 1990-91 Gretzky had a higher PPG as well.

Nice revisionism attempt, though.

So you don't really read a sentence, glance at a stat, and then think you know it all. Then you throw some shade. Bemusing.

Here is some real history for you.

Coffey was traded in 87' because he didn't want to own an apartment building.

He only played 50 games that year as well as the next in Pittsburgh.

From 81 to 87 the two put up amazing numbers. 300+ points between the two of them. 200+ point seasons from Gretzky.

In 87' Coffey played less (50 games) and Gretzkys points dipped. He would never reach those Coffey heights again because he was gone.

In 88' Coffey played the same 50 games with Pittsburgh. Lemieux went from 110 points to 170 points. The next year Coffey was healthy and ran Lemieux up to 199 points.

Revisionist indeed. As I said before, the day they traded Coffey was the end of Gretzkys' dominance. It was a short sentence. It didn't take long to read. Your post says as much except for its conclusion and picked over facts.

People really underestimate the effect of a Paul Coffey. Especially those who never saw him play.
 

GodPucker

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Sep 27, 2017
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Something that people also forget. The Oilers need more secondary scoring, but they are getting it from the D compared to this time last year. They have 10+ more points from their D right now compared to last year after 8 games.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
81,475
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Redmond, WA
I know this isn't a comment on them as individual players, but Gretzky comparing McDavid and Draisaitl to himself and Messier is laughable with the lack of team success the Oilers have had. I think McDavid and Draisaitl is an phenomenal duo, but regardless of whether it's fair, people should laugh at that comparison until the Oilers actually have some success as a team with McDavid and Draisaitl.
 

GodPucker

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Sep 27, 2017
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I know this isn't a comment on them as individual players, but Gretzky comparing McDavid and Draisaitl to himself and Messier is laughable with the lack of team success the Oilers have had. I think McDavid and Draisaitl is an phenomenal duo, but regardless of whether it's fair, people should laugh at that comparison until the Oilers actually have some success as a team with McDavid and Draisaitl.
Nobody in their right mind thinks that. Media liked to say it. It was more Gretzky-Kurri too
 

Daz28

Registered User
Nov 1, 2010
12,674
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I haven't watched any Oil hockey but if they 1C and 2C then 1-2 punch might have been a better thread title

Gretz might want to see a playoff series win before he gets to giddy
 

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
19,253
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So you don't really read a sentence, glance at a stat, and then think you know it all. Then you throw some shade. Bemusing.

Here is some real history for you.

Coffey was traded in 87' because he didn't want to own an apartment building.

He only played 50 games that year as well as the next in Pittsburgh.

From 81 to 87 the two put up amazing numbers. 300+ points between the two of them. 200+ point seasons from Gretzky.

In 87' Coffey played less (50 games) and Gretzkys points dipped. He would never reach those Coffey heights again because he was gone.

In 88' Coffey played the same 50 games with Pittsburgh. Lemieux went from 110 points to 170 points. The next year Coffey was healthy and ran Lemieux up to 199 points.

Revisionist indeed. As I said before, the day they traded Coffey was the end of Gretzkys' dominance. It was a short sentence. It didn't take long to read. Your post says as much except for its conclusion and picked over facts.

People really underestimate the effect of a Paul Coffey. Especially those who never saw him play.
I stand by everything I wrote in my post above. You have convinced me of nothing.

I am a big Coffey fan, by the way, and I watched him regularly from the mid-1980s to the late 1990s.

As to your funny math, you are kind of overlooking a few obvious points:

-- Gretzky in 1981 had the highest-scoring season in NHL history (164 points, still eligible for Junior hockey) when Coffey was a 32-point rookie. Are you arguing it was Coffey who helped Gretzky jump from 137 to 164 points?

-- In 1983, Gretzky "declined" from 212 points to 196, while Coffey improved from 89 to 96. Where's the correlation?

-- You mention 1987 as if it was a sub-par Gretzky season, simply because he didn't score 200 points. In fact, that season he won the scoring title by the largest percentage of his entire career. He then had a 7 point game in the playoffs when Coffey was injured. (There is a Sports Illustrated article -- you can Google it -- where the writer argues that 1987 was Gretzky's greatest-ever season.) Also, Gretzky had basically rested up and floated through the final 5 games of that season, getting ready for the playoffs and trying to overcome fatigue. (He scored 2 points and went -8 in the last five games.) Before those final five games of relaxing, Gretzky was pacing for 196 points, exactly the same as in 1983 when Coffey was healthy all year.

-- Most obviously: You're overlooking the rather huge fact that Gretzky's PPG improved the first season after Coffey in Edmonton (1987-88). Even with Coffey playing 50-odd games in Pittsburgh, Gretzky would have won the scoring title without him.

Here were Wayne and Mario's numbers after 38 games each (when Gretzky went down to injury):
1. Gretzky 86
2. Lemieux 80
(That was after Mario had played maybe a dozen games with Coffey.)

Here were Wayne and Mario's numbers in each player's final 24 games:
1. Gretzky 56
2. Lemieux 56
(Lemieux played all his games with Coffey.)

So... care to revise your Thesis?


Look, Coffey was an amazing talent who clearly boosted the offence of all teams he played for in his prime. But it is simply not the case that a fully functioning Coffey was required for Gretzky or Lemieux to post huge seasons. Before Coffey cracked 90 points, Gretzky scored 212. And after Coffey was traded from Pittsburgh, Lemieux had his biggest per-game season (1992-93). And Gretzky's PPG improved the season after Coffey was traded.

Not sure why I'm pointing this out, as you'll no doubt willfully ignore these facts.
 
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The Panther

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NOTE: I made a mistake in the post above. Wayne and Mario each scored exactly 56 points in each player's last 24 games of the 1987-88 season.
 

end

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Mar 18, 2007
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People think if you happen to luck into two star centers, you should have them on their own lines, because there are more examples of this winning Stanley Cups than stacking the top line. Two effective scoring lines will carry play for two thirds of the game. One super line can be neutralized and then what?
 

Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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Gretzky getting old? Forgetting about Jari Kurri (Better comparison to Draisaitl than Messier is).
 

Big Cactus

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Apr 9, 2018
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They may be, but playing Drai 22:56 and Mcdavid 22:37 will help inflate point totals. I don’t blame Edmonton for taking this approach, I wish the Leafs did as well. However that extra TOI will help elevate raw statistics, even is other pairings score at a better p/60 rate.
 

iCanada

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Feb 6, 2010
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Gretzky getting old? Forgetting about Jari Kurri (Better comparison to Draisaitl than Messier is).




Just a quick 5 minute sampling on youtube... Yall should respect Leon's meanstreak and power a little more. Messier is a much better comparison for his play than Kurri.
 

Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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It is Messier's meanstreak that should be "respected", it was of another world, not comparable.
 

thaman8765678

Registered User
Jun 11, 2011
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No doubt they are carrying that team.

Is it sustainable to have them playing almost half a game every night though? Won't they burn out or be at a higher risk of injury if they keep playing this much?
 

Iwuwd

Registered User
Oct 11, 2019
44
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Are they good enough to get James Neal 50 goals in 38 games? That would make them legendary!
 

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