McCann vs Virtanen

[F A N]

Like I say above, my point is that the minutes aren't a black and white indication of the rookie making the team.

I think it's pretty black and white in the context of McCann vs Virtanen. If one is to go, every indication suggests that Virtanen would be Willie's pick to go and I don't see a reason why Benning and Trevor would push otherwise. Last year Horvat beat out Jensen for the job and the team wasn't going to carry 8 defensem so he was in a different situation entirely. It's possible that Benning makes room for both with a trade or send Cracknell down.

 

[arsmaster*]

He's certainly not ideal beside Dorsett and Prust, but there are advantages. Dorsett and Prust can dig pucks out of the corners and provide the hard forechecking and board play that McCann is incapable of right now and those two guys protects McCann from the physical stuff.

So he's not ready. This outlines it. If the rest of his line has to do the work and he gets to hang out up high and hope they win the puck he's not ready.

Even in the OHL I found he allowed his wingers to do that. IMO his game needs to adapt. Can he play at the NHL level? Yes he's shown it. Would it be best for his career and the franchise? Not so sure.

 

[F A N]

So he's not ready. This outlines it. If the rest of his line has to do the work and he gets to hang out up high and hope they win the puck he's not ready.

Even in the OHL I found he allowed his wingers to do that. IMO his game needs to adapt. Can he play at the NHL level? Yes he's shown it. Would it be best for his career and the franchise? Not so sure.

Gretzky did have Semenko and the Sedins had Trent Klatt. The center position usually doesn't require McCann to be the first guy in to dig pucks out of the corners. The way I see it is that McCann gives the Canucks a different look at the centre position with his speed, shot, and ability to control the puck.

 

[Shareefruck]

Trent Klatt was a very offensively capable 30-40 point third liner, nothing close to a plug. In terms of quality of hockey, he was closer to prime Matt Cooke than Derek Dorsett.

 

[Shareefruck]

Ya he "earned it" but wasn't terribly effective up until January. His line was consistently outshot and often hemmed in. Yes a good portion of that falls on his wingers (esp Dorsett) but let's not pretend that November Bo looked anything like March Bo. He came a long way, esp after the injury to Richardson.

I never suggested anything close to the contrary. But his game was not flawed and he was not struggling early on. He was simply playing like a very solid defensive 4th line center.

The parallels to Virtanen and McCann's transition to the NHL and their question marks are not there.

 

[Scurr]

I never suggested anything close to the contrary. But his game was not flawed and he was not struggling early on. He was simply playing like a very solid defensive 4th line center.

The parallels to Virtanen and McCann's transition to the NHL and their question marks are not there.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=29&type=corsi&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

It's hard to blame Dorsett too much for that given the number that Vey/Dorsett was able to put together. Horvat got by on reputation until after Christmas.

 

[Nuckles]

Would this have anything to do with Virtanen potentially staying with us? Or is this just a normal "nothing to see here" trade?

 

[Tiranis]

Would this have anything to do with Virtanen potentially staying with us? Or is this just a normal "nothing to see here" trade?

Not much to see, just shuffling the chairs around.

 

[CanaFan]

I never suggested anything close to the contrary. But his game was not flawed and he was not struggling early on. He was simply playing like a very solid defensive 4th line center.

The parallels to Virtanen and McCann's transition to the NHL and their question marks are not there.

But how have Virts and McCann "struggled" relative to Bo then?

McCann isn't physically or defensively where Bo was but his offensive game appears way way ahead 7 games in.

Virtanen isn't as offensively proficient but he's played a safe, cautious game (similar to Bo) and provides value through his physical game.

Again if the expectation is offensive production from either of these kids then it is worth pointing out that that was never part of the expectation with Bo either.

 

[Tiranis]

McCann isn't physically or defensively where Bo was but his offensive game appears way way ahead 7 games in.

Virtanen isn't as offensively proficient but he's played a safe, cautious game (similar to Bo) and provides value through his physical game.

I'm not really buying it. Maybe if your definition of better is that he tries more flashy plays but Bo was much better on the cycle and didn't need to rely on his wingers getting him the puck. Shot totals are comparable through first 7 games even though Bo actually got less ice-time to start last season than McCann.

 

[CanaFan]

I'm not really buying it. Maybe if your definition of better is that he tries more flashy plays but Bo was much better on the cycle and didn't need to rely on his wingers getting him the puck. Shot totals are comparable through first 7 games even though Bo actually got less ice-time to start last season than McCann.

Flashy isn't far off I suppose but it implies a lack of substance. McCann shows a combination of hands, shot, and pace/instincts beyond what Bo showed in his first 10 games based on what I recall. Even now Bo doesn't have what I would call "high end" offensive tools but rather plays a simple, smart NHL-style offensive game around cycling, puck possession, and play around the net. I truly believe Bo will ride his tools to a very good NHL career, but I also see McCann as displaying tools and instincts above what Bo has. He may never materialize these into a better career, but I think he has a stronger starting point (offensively).

If you give Bo the nod for having a better NHL game from his goal line to the other team's blue line, then I think you have to give McCann the nod from the blue line in. He's far from polished or even safe, but he's got the "thing" that strong offensive performers have at this level.

 

[WestleySnipez]

At this point, will the Canucks send either player back to Juniors? Or are they willing to waste a year on their contracts over a few more games?

 

[BassMason]

At this point, will the Canucks send either player back to Juniors? Or are they willing to waste a year on their contracts over a few more games?

9 game mark means the lose a year off their entry level deals. Also means they lose leverage when signing their bridge contracts. Not that big a deal and may actually be better for the club.

40 game mark means you lose a year off of the RFA years. Much bigger deal IMO.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Both should be kept up past 9 games but sent down for the WJC. They'll both have key scoring roles and hopefully big tournaments. Then back up to finish the year depending on how everything shakes down.

 

[JuniorNelson]

I think they might keep Virtanen because Baertschi needs to go. They might bring up Shinkaruk instead, though.

McCann can be replaced at center. He can go back to Junior and dominate. He can't dominate now, in the NHL. Better to keep him where he can succeed.

 

[me2]

40 game mark means you lose a year off of the RFA years. Much bigger deal IMO.

meh, that'll be something for the next GM to worry about.

 

[TheWanderer]

I think they might keep Virtanen because Baertschi needs to go. They might bring up Shinkaruk instead, though.

McCann can be replaced at center. He can go back to Junior and dominate. He can't dominate now, in the NHL. Better to keep him where he can succeed.

Him holding his own (ie not necessarily dominating) in the NHL at this stage in his career is success. Quite a big deal, actually.

So far, the only criticisms I have seen in favor of sending McCann down are issues that will not improve in junior, aside from strength (which honestly isn't a big deal with him).

Rookie mistakes. No matter when he is a rookie, he will be a rookie when he starts in the NHL past 9 games.

Letting his wingers do the grinding? If it's Dorsett and Prust, that is all they are good for anyways. In a case like that, McCann is either getting open (shot), or keeping in defensive position. If that is really going to be a criticism, then playing in junior isn't going to show him that letting his wingers do the work doesn't cut it. In junior, it does cut it.

What part of McCann's game are we really saying isn't ready?


Virtanen, on the other hand, is really not doing much at all. He's not open for his shot, he's not using his speed because he hasn't kept up with the play mentally. He isn't throwing hits because he doesn't want to make a mistake. He gets so little ice time that he should be going balls to the wall when he is out there, but he's floating instead. Virtanen is not ready.


I kind of think Willie was hoping one of Baerts/Virtanen would be good enough, but what we are seeing instead is that McCann and Cracknell are allowing us to use Sutter as a winger.

 

[The Jesus*]

Him holding his own (ie not necessarily dominating) in the NHL at this stage in his career is success. Quite a big deal, actually.

So far, the only criticisms I have seen in favor of sending McCann down are issues that will not improve in junior, aside from strength (which honestly isn't a big deal with him).

Rookie mistakes. No matter when he is a rookie, he will be a rookie when he starts in the NHL past 9 games.

Letting his wingers do the grinding? If it's Dorsett and Prust, that is all they are good for anyways. In a case like that, McCann is either getting open (shot), or keeping in defensive position. If that is really going to be a criticism, then playing in junior isn't going to show him that letting his wingers do the work doesn't cut it. In junior, it does cut it.

What part of McCann's game are we really saying isn't ready?


Virtanen, on the other hand, is really not doing much at all. He's not open for his shot, he's not using his speed because he hasn't kept up with the play mentally. He isn't throwing hits because he doesn't want to make a mistake. He gets so little ice time that he should be going balls to the wall when he is out there, but he's floating instead. Virtanen is not ready.


I kind of think Willie was hoping one of Baerts/Virtanen would be good enough, but what we are seeing instead is that McCann and Cracknell are allowing us to use Sutter as a winger.

Yeah, I was kinda hoping Virtanen would play a bit like Ferkland when he got his shot. Skate around like a madman throwing his weight around. A beast on the forecheck. You know, earn his place on the roster.

 

[RandV]

So he's not ready. This outlines it. If the rest of his line has to do the work and he gets to hang out up high and hope they win the puck he's not ready.

Even in the OHL I found he allowed his wingers to do that. IMO his game needs to adapt. Can he play at the NHL level? Yes he's shown it. Would it be best for his career and the franchise? Not so sure.

Not being ideal to play with Dorsett and Prust doesn't mean he's not ready. You're better off with Cracknell playing with Dorsett and Prust, but not with Burrows and Hansen. Between the top-9 vets is a perfect place to groom McCann, there just isn't room if Sutter moves back to center.

 

[racerjoe]

Not being ideal to play with Dorsett and Prust doesn't mean he's not ready. You're better off with Cracknell playing with Dorsett and Prust, but not with Burrows and Hansen. Between the top-9 vets is a perfect place to groom McCann, there just isn't room if Sutter moves back to center.

Or you could move sutter to between Proust and dorsett. It should be about maximizing your lineup, and I think the puzzle pieces fit better that way.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

This poll hurts so much. It instantly popped up in my head "McCann" and then I remembered we wasted a 6th OA pick on Virtanen...ugh...not giving up on him though, only 19, would be dumb to do so, but he has actually regressed so it's not looking good. Still enough time to turn it around and even if he doesn't make it, it would make sense to just move on and learn from your mistake. If you're going to take a risk might as well swing for the fences...

 

[tiny103]

I'm just scared that if Mcann is sent down, that means Vey comes up to fill the centre spot.

 

[Siludin]

Welp

 

[Aphid Attraction]

I voted in another poll before the season that the Canucks are a playoff team... This poll I voted to keep both... I think it mskes us a weaker team in the short term and puts us in the playoff bubble area... But if we do make it into the playoffs the kids will make us a better playoff team, and help us steal a round or two

When Higgins is back I have no problem rotating Virtanen Mccann and Bea in the pressbox, I am not a believer that thousands of minutes of playing time is the only way to develop players...

This for me is building for the future since the team will never tank for it... Thats what i would do anyways...

 

[GPNuck]

I voted keep them both and I stand by that both deserve to stay