McCann vs Virtanen

[TheWanderer]

So who do we think is going to stick with the team, between McCann and Virtanen?

McCann has been the better player, clearly, but his position as center has a tendency to expose his inexperience. He has a pretty good idea of what to do and where to go, and he is playing pretty close to NHL speed. My biggest criticism at the moment is that he needs to shoot more. He seems to concerned with making the play, and the puck never makes it to the net.

Virtanen is physically ready, and he has the skill. However, I don't feel that he is thinking the game at the NHL speed. He isn't where he needs to be, most of the time, and like McCann we're not seeing him make use of his shot. He's been okay on the forecheck, but he could be better.

Both of these players are good enough to stick, so the question comes down to that being what we want or not. Space can be made for them, even with Higgins in the line-up. They both have a lot to learn, but they are learning here.

Neither of them have made a case to undeniably stay with the team like, say, Hutton has. Combine that with quality depth in the AHL, it wouldn't harm the team in any capacity to call a raincheck on playing these players.

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[Rex Banner]

Both. Give them ice time and rope.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Neither are ready imo. You see glimpses here and there, but they still have a long ways to go.

 

[rypper]

It's a tough call because at times McCann has definitely looked better and more ready, but center is a postion we are flush at. He's pretty much going to be fighting with Cracknell for the 4th line center role (unless we go back to Sutter with the twins.)

Virtanen has had moments of brilliance and plays a style that works throughout the line up... but is he ready for it? Do we want him to spend the season in a 4th line grinder role?

tough call. I could see both going back when Higgins is healthy. Higgins/Cracknell in, the kids to junior.

 

[The Jesus*]

Virtanen is struggling thinking the game at the NHL level and adapting to how much quicker you need to make decisions than in junior. But his strength and tenacity is at the NHL level right now.

McCann is struggling to a much lesser degree than Virtanen, though he'll make rookie mistakes. But his biggest weakness is that his strength and physicality isn't up to an NHL level yet.

Virtanen's body is ready, but not his brain. McCann's brain is ready, but not his body. If we could combine them into one person, we'd have a perfect prospect.

To answer the question though, McCann is much more NHL ready at this point. And is frankly the better prospect as of now. Though I doubt he sticks all season.

 

[F A N]

At this point, if it's either one, McCann by a landslide. You can see it in the difference in ice time. He's getting a serious look as the team's 4th line centre. Defensively, McCann is up and down like most rookies but he's certainly ahead of Virtanen and Willie seems to be gaining trust in him. Offensively, McCann has done more. That shot of his is dangerous and he has managed to pull off some moves that gets you excited about his potential. Virtanen has pretty much shown he has the strength to play in this league but so far that's pretty much it. Granted, he hasn't played much but that also goes to show that Willie favors McCann. Against Detroit, McCann doubled Virtanen's minutes.

I see McCann being a centre as a HUGE plus for him. We are certainly not flush with centres. The Canucks have very little depth. After McCann and Cracknell it's Vey and then Blair Jones. On the wing there's far more depth with Kennins, Gaunce, Grenier, Shinkaruk, and Jensen. Sutter can also play wing.

I think McCann has made the team. The mistakes he makes are rookie mistakes and lack of strength. His skating, his skill, his shot, his hockey IQ are too good to send him back. I think he is ready for the NHL. He's okay now and by the end of the season he should be better than what Vey was last season.

 

[VeteranNetPresence]

neither and give it to someone deserving on utica

 

[sirwilliam]

If we're gonna keep playing Virtanen for 5 minutes a night, let's send him down.

 

[opendoor]

Send them both down so Vey can come back up when Higgins gets back.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

In a perfect world, we will keep them both and feed them 9 mins of average ice time. But Nooooooooooo~

 

[WestleySnipez]

If we're gonna keep playing Virtanen for 5 minutes a night, let's send him down.

Wouldn't 5 minutes at an NHL level be way better experience for him then going back to the WHL? He's already shown what he can do in the Dub, if we could put him in the Minors then yea, but he's still 19.

 

[Tiranis]

Wouldn't 5 minutes at an NHL level be way better experience for him then going back to the WHL? He's already shown what he can do in the Dub, if we could put him in the Minors then yea, but he's still 19.

Shown that he can't even put up more than PPG? These suggestions that he has nothing left to do in junior are ridiculous.

Neither looks ready to me. McCann is making so many mistakes that it's only a matter of time before it starts costing him ice-time. Some of those turnovers yesterday were worse than anything Sbisa has done in a long while.

 

[Caspian]

Virtanen will never think the game at an NHL speed -_-

 

[F A N]

Neither looks ready to me. McCann is making so many mistakes that it's only a matter of time before it starts costing him ice-time. Some of those turnovers yesterday were worse than anything Sbisa has done in a long while.

Those were rookie mistakes and he's only going to get better. I think it more or less comes down to physical maturity. McCann has been considered good defensively for at least the past 2 years in the OHL. Will he really get better defensively going back to juniors? I am not sure about that. Sheldon Keefe is not there anymore. I don't think going back to juniors to "work on his defense" will help McCann since he is actually good defensively at the OHL level.

McCann has done things offensively that few in the lineup can. I think he should be kept and developed.

 

[Tiranis]

Those were rookie mistakes and he's only going to get better. I think it more or less comes down to physical maturity. McCann has been considered good defensively for at least the past 2 years in the OHL. Will he really get better defensively going back to juniors? I am not sure about that. Sheldon Keefe is not there anymore. I don't think going back to juniors to "work on his defense" will help McCann since he is actually good defensively at the OHL level.

McCann has done things offensively that few in the lineup can. I think he should be kept and developed.

It's not just defense. Most of his mistakes have been from making junior plays at the NHL level. A lot of them are in the offensive zone too. He will probably get better but he won't get better if Willie eventually staples him to the bench. I think the latter will happen before the former.

 

[F A N]

It's not just defense. Most of his mistakes have been from making junior plays at the NHL level. A lot of them are in the offensive zone too. He will probably get better but he won't get better if Willie eventually staples him to the bench. I think the latter will happen before the former.

I don't see how he's worse than his line mates in the offensive zone. But if his problem is making junior plays sending him back to juniors won't help him.

 

[M2Beezy]

I think neither will stay with the big team cause there not been giving a fare chance to succeed or even to show what they got. Esp Jake. I think both should be give more time and responsibility but there not so i dont think this is good for there developing so send them down so they can play hockey!

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

I think McCann is pretty much ready, but could work on being more consistently involved physically. He does it here and there, but doesn't finish checks or grind the boards very often. He just glides by a lot, especially when you compare him to our other centres. Not sure if he is physically ready.

Virtanen kind of watches the play too much, but I'm thinking he might just need confidence at the NHL level. Willie seems to want him playing a different role than he does in junior, which is why I might keep him up instead of McCann. Like we saw from Jake in the preseason, he's used to working the PP along the boards on the left side (cutting into the slot for a shot), while we have him as the net presence. I like how he has been trying to block shots and get in shooting lanes.

I'd still like to see them get their 9 games before making a decision. Sending them both down and bringing in Gaunce or something, wouldn't be too bad either. Would make the WJC's more entertaining as well. Could still try the "conditioning assignment" in Utica, maybe get Jake some offensive confidence and try bringing him back.

 

[CanaFan]

Return them both. McCann's shown flashes and *maybe* he'll slowly gain Willie's trust and thus increase his minutes, but I don't trust Willie to be willing to live with McCann's mistakes and lack of physical strength when he's clearly 100% focussed on regular season points. SSM is a great situation for him and coming back as a stronger, more confident 20 year old won't hurt.

Jake is physically ready but appears solely focussed on not making mistakes and so is sacrificing offensive chances for safe plays. Same as he did at the WJC where he played high on the forecheck so he could be back in the neutral zone to negate the other teams break out. It's like he's gotten so few minutes he has lost any sense of offensive risk-taking (which McCann hasn't lost). Since Jake could probably play the whole season as a safe, physical 5-8 minute a night option for Willie, I'd rather he go back to junior and continue to develop in offensive situations.

In short, send them both back and let Willie ride his safe, reliable vets into 20th place and a near-playoff miss. At this point the focus is still clearly on chasing a playoff spot and not on developing young talent, so I'd like to see them stop pretending to do the latter and just bore us all to death with 16 minutes of Dorsett and Prust.

 

[Scurr]

I'd keep both and stick to the current plan that seemed to work for Horvat.

 

[Lindgren]

neither and give it to someone deserving on utica

It'll be interesting charting Shinkaruk and Gaunce as Virtanan and McCann approach the nine game mark. You'd think that if one or both of the Utica guys really takes off, that'd factor into management's decision.

 

[VanJack]

Trade Higgins and demote Cracknell to Utica, and there's no longer any debate...they'd both be needed....but whether WD would trust them enough to actually play them, now that's a different story.

 

[RandV]

Agreed on McCann. We lack depth at center and can surround him with solid 2-way veteran wingers. Virtanen on the other hand unless he can get going with Horvat doesn't seem to have a place.

 

[Intangibos]

I don't think Virtanen is NHL ready right now, but I also hate sending him down to junior. If we were a team looking to compete, I'd only take McCann since I think he will develop a lot during the year and get smarter. However, we're not going to be winning the cup this year, so I'd keep both and just feed them decent ice time. This isn't an Edmonton situation where you're forcing them into the league to carry your team before they're ready. They have players like the Sedins, Burrows, Vrbata, Hansen, Higgins, and Sutter to help them develop and keep help out when they **** up.

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Burrows/Higgins Horvat Hansen
Higgins/Burrows McCann Virtanen
Dorsett Sutter Cracknell

Lots of those players can be moved up and down the lineup based on their play and chemistry, I'd be happy with virtually any deployment of those bottom 9 forwards as long as Dorsett and Cracknell stay on the 4th line.

In any case, I'd give plenty of ice time to Baertschi, Horvat, McCann, Virtanen and Hutton to develop them. They're going to make mistakes, but they will learn from those mistakes and it's better they make those mistakes in a season where we aren't looking for the cup.

Edit: I forgot about Baertschi. Not sure where Baertschi fits in, if you want to run with Baertschi Sutter Dorsett, but that's questionable. I guess you could move Higgins to the 4th line and put Baertschi with either Horvat or McCann.

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Higgins Horvat Hansen
Baertschi McCann Burrows
Dorsett Sutter Virtanen
Cracknell
Prust

Relatively even ice time for all the lines, depending on how the game is going.

 

[The Jesus*]

I don't think Virtanen is NHL ready right now, but I also hate sending him down to junior. If we were a team looking to compete, I'd only take McCann since I think he will develop a lot during the year and get smarter. However, we're not going to be winning the cup this year, so I'd keep both and just feed them decent ice time. This isn't an Edmonton situation where you're forcing them into the league to carry your team before they're ready. They have players like the Sedins, Burrows, Vrbata, Hansen, Higgins, and Sutter to help them develop and keep help out when they **** up.

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Burrows/Higgins Horvat Hansen
Higgins/Burrows McCann Virtanen
Dorsett Sutter Cracknell

Lots of those players can be moved up and down the lineup based on their play and chemistry, I'd be happy with virtually any deployment of those bottom 9 forwards as long as Dorsett and Cracknell stay on the 4th line.

In any case, I'd give plenty of ice time to Baertschi, Horvat, McCann, Virtanen and Hutton to develop them. They're going to make mistakes, but they will learn from those mistakes and it's better they make those mistakes in a season where we aren't looking for the cup.

Edit: I forgot about Baertschi. Not sure where Baertschi fits in, if you want to run with Baertschi Sutter Dorsett, but that's questionable. I guess you could move Higgins to the 4th line and put Baertschi with either Horvat or McCann.

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Higgins Horvat Hansen
Baertschi McCann Burrows
Dorsett Sutter Virtanen
Cracknell
Prust

Relatively even ice time for all the lines, depending on how the game is going.

So Sutter, who has been one of our best players, is now on the 4th line? McCann and Virtanen on the same line? A rookie needs to be somewhat sheltered, having 2 on the same line all but ensures that line will suck and Willie will bench them. Cracknell and Prust are perfect 4th liners, they're not going to be riding the pine.

The simple fact of the matter is if we want to win games, we need to get some of these kids who aren't very good off the team. We simply don't have the room to insulate and shelter 3 rookies (Sven might as well be a rookie), especially with Horvat playing poorly.

Sven needs to go. Horvat needs to be demoted down to the 3rd line and play with some responsible, established NHL players again. Our 4th line is playing lights out, no point benching any of them.

So basically, we have something like

Sedins - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Sutter - Vrbata
_____ - Horvat - Hansen
Dorsett - Cracknell - Prust

That leaves one spot open on the third line wing. If you put all 3 of the kids into the lineup (Virtanen, McCann, and Baertschi), we start to look real ugly because of who we have to push out.

What I wanna see? Move Dorsett up to play with Horvat and Hansen. He's earned it. Then maybe move Cracknell to the wing and have McCann play center. Or vice versa. Dump Baertschi, he is just atrocious. Send Virtanen to juniors. So our team will look something like

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Sutter - Vrbata
Dorsett - Horvat - Hansen
Cracknell - McCann - Prust

1st line -Sedins don't have to worry about Vrbata dragging down their possession numbers. They have a tenacious and speedy forechecker and defensively responsible player in burrows. Chemistry is there.

2nd line - Higgins and Suter should compensate for Vrbata's defensive uselessness. Vrbata should provide some scoring touch to a line that will need a guy out there shooting. Possession not overly important here, getting pucks on net is.

3rd line - Horvat clearly isn't where we thought he was. He needs to play with good NHL players to help him out a bit. Dorsett and Hansen provide him with a ton of energy, physicality, speed, and strong defensive play.

4th line - McCann can play limited minutes between two guys playing very well, and learn the game as he goes.

The people who need to be sheltered are sheltered. The lineup makes sense. And we aren't completely screwing over our entire team forcing kids in who very clearly aren't ready.