Value of: Max Pacioretty

[Runner77]

no need to, pacioretty is no longer a top 5 winger in the game, based on this year he's more like top 60

Sure thing. Let's forget how he was hurt and didn't play with bona fide first line players.

Why don't we do the same argument for every player that has a down year following a longstanding streak of several productive years. They must all have taken a dive they'll never be able to recover from. Good to know.

 

[Runner77]

im not taking offense, its just habs fans always seem to bring up the islanders when it comes to trading Price, Pacioretty, or Galchenyuk, we have no interest in any of them, nor are we gifting you Tavares.

Who are these "Habs fans"? Every team has fans who are compulsive, that doesn't mean the entire fan base should be painted with the same brush. I really don't care who the Habs trade with, only interested in a reasonable return, which I am skeptical about given how incompetent Habs management has been.

A low return on Pacioretty is certainly possible if Marc Bergevin is handling the deal.

 

[theghost1]

they also took on belesky as a cap dump

nice try but facts are facts

Nice try but Pacioretty has been WAY more productive than Nash in recent years.

 

[Colt55]

Pacioretty easily gets back a 1st and 2 prospects....Nash 4 and a half years older than Pacioretty got back a 1st and Spooner.

1st and two prospects.. that ship has sailed. Much like shattenkirk you get a 1st and good prospect. The prospect will not be the teams top c prospect.

 

[Beige Van]

1st and two prospects.. that ship has sailed. Much like shattenkirk you get a 1st and good prospect. The prospect will not be the teams top c prospect.

Fine by me. I understand that some of the suggestions that Pacioretty would gather multiple picks and top prospects are out to lunch, but I'm sure a 1st and a good prospect is a very reasonable trade for both teams.

 

[Runner77]

hard to say, yes he can put the puck in the net, he's interested in his own zone most of the time, but the Canadiens fell apart in slow motion under his captaincy and leadership...

With all due respect, that's not why the Habs fell apart. And I've watched every one of Pacioretty's games as captain of the Habs.

The team cratered on account of a poorly constructed roster exacerbated by management errors and a paucity of talent on the top line and without support from its D, itself decimated. There is no reason Pacioretty can't produce at the same levels as in the prior 5 years, if he has bona fide first line players with him. He's managed to score as much as he has, without the benefit of the type of offensive support that most other teams have in spades.

Talking about the captaincy, it's never a good idea to have a team's best goal-getter as your captain. A lot of teams avoid it, since you want your best scorer to be able to focus more intently on what he does best rather than have to deal with the added responsibilities that come with being a captain.

Fact is, Pacioretty is durable, defensively responsible (he's on the first wave of every PK) and displays exemplary conduct. Take him out of the maelstrom that is Montreal and watch him thrive.

 

[Beezeral]

lets get this out of the way. Borgstrom + a first is not happening.

Borgstrom on his own is not happening. Let the dream die Habs fans

Seems like I need to add to this. Mike Matheson and a 2nd for pacioretty is not having. Matheson on his own is not happening.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

How about Pacioretty + 2018 1st to LA for Muzzin + Vilardi + 2018 1st? Who says no?

la in a hearbeat I dont think u would find one king fan that would trade him straight for patches let alone add the rest to the deal

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I don't.
And Poehling isn't a 1C.. I've always pegged him as a 3C, but his season this year says there is more potential there.. maybe a 2C, we will see,
And no, I facepalm and laugh whenever Tavares to Montreal is brought up.

If the Habs wanna move Patches to the Kings, take Muzzin out.. remove Montreal's first and negotiate around their 1st or Viliardi.

Rebuild is the only option, even if Viliardi has 1C potential.. how long will it take for him to make that impact at the NHL level? 3-4 years? Weber will be completely dead.

Its believe Vilardi will be in the nhl next year by his gm

 

[Colt55]

Fine by me. I understand that some of the suggestions that Pacioretty would gather multiple picks and top prospects are out to lunch, but I'm sure a 1st and a good prospect is a very reasonable trade for both teams.

Completly reasonable

 

[ole ole]

How about Pacioretty + 2018 1st to LA for Muzzin + Vilardi + 2018 1st? Who says no?

Patches and the 3rd/4th overall for for Muzzin + Vilardi and the 21st overall. Habs hang up and block LA's number.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Patches and the 3rd/4th overall for for Muzzin + Vilardi and the 21st overall. Habs hang up and block LA's number.

Vilardi was rated 3 in last years draft by central scouting. so the pick for him is a wash value wise .However la would have to wait for said player 2-3 years while Vilardi is said to be ready in the fall to play. So la would lose value wise. Next patches for muzzin and la s first. Muzzin a 20 mins plus a night defense man who is playing on the nhl top defensive team and a first in the 20s . Yes patches would look good next to kopitar however i don't think his goal scorer would be the same as his defensive side isn't as good as la needs it and it will lower his offensive stats as he will no longer get to cheat to the offensive side So i see him with 25- 28 goals So overall i see this as a no go for la as we lose to much

 

[Omar]

Vilardi was rated 3 in last years draft by central scouting. so the pick for him is a wash value wise .However la would have to wait for said player 2-3 years while Vilardi is said to be ready in the fall to play. So la would lose value wise. Next patches for muzzin and la s first. Muzzin a 20 mins plus a night defense man who is playing on the nhl top defensive team and a first in the 20s . Yes patches would look good next to kopitar however i don't think his goal scorer would be the same as his defensive side isn't as good as la needs it and it will lower his offensive stats as he will no longer get to cheat to the offensive side So i see him with 25- 28 goals So overall i see this as a no go for la as we lose to much

First, Pacioretty is good defensively and plays the PK for us.

Second, Svechnikov or Zadina aren’t 2-3 years away.

Third, Patches would score 30-35 maybe 40 with Kopitar.

 

[Benstheman]

Duchene was on the trade block back before the 2016-17 deadline. It's quite the coincidence that nobody would offer something to Sakic's liking then, or over the summer, or until they actually saw him playing well again. It's almost like it's easier to justify pulling the trigger on spending big for someone who is playing well than someone who isn't.

It's ultimately not surprising that Duchene's career rebounded. His down year came at age 26, after all, which is smack in the middle of his prime. As much as you might want it to be, having a down year at 29 isn't exactly the same as having one at 26. I would not be surprised in the least if Pacioretty rebounded, but people are going to want to see some evidence of that before ponying up a trade deal of corresponding value.

You can disagree with that reasoning if you want, but the fact of the matter is that Pacioretty is still sitting in MTL in spite of being heavily shopped this year. There's clearly a disconnect between what MTL thinks he's worth and what other GMs are willing to pay for him, and something concrete is going to have to change in order for that gap to close. If that thing isn't Pacioretty's level of play, then it has to be something else and there are very few variables in the equation.

Your reasoning makes sense, but you just forget to add the fact that a trade like that (Pacioretty, Duchene) and we are seeing it with Karlsson and even tavares at an even higher level. This is complicated to make a trade of that kind and takes time. There is a negociation game that takes time. It depends on the GM selling it's player and on it's demands.

A lot of variables come in line.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I think Pacioretty would do best in a situation like Kessel. Get out from under the microscope as the "man" in a rabid media market to a team where he can blend in a bit.

 

[member 88115]

First, Pacioretty is good defensively and plays the PK for us.

Second, Svechnikov or Zadina aren’t 2-3 years away.

Third, Patches would score 30-35 maybe 40 with Kopitar.

Just cause you are a goal scorer (and struggling at that), does not mean Kopitar is going to be your savior. Look at Toffoli who has the best shot on the team, but plays better with Carter because he is faster than Kopitar. Lucic had the same problem about not fitting well with Kopitar. Gaborik was awesome for 2014 Cup run, but horrible after that not even Kopi can help him. There are no guarantees. It would be like saying, I will wait to sign Max when he is a UFA since we have Kopi for him. For sure he will sign.

Pass on the proposal. Muzzin has much more value than Max. + i would not trade Vilardi and a 1st for Montreals pick

 

[KingCanadain1976]

First, Pacioretty is good defensively and plays the PK for us.

Second, Svechnikov or Zadina aren’t 2-3 years away.

Third, Patches would score 30-35 maybe 40 with Kopitar.

Every game i watched Montreal this year He cheated to the offensive zone. (aka cherry picking) while the puck was in the defensive zone. In la he would have to play 200 foot hockey. I am not saying he doesn't do it sometimes but from what i seen when hes in a slump scoring he ll cheat to the offensive side more often then not. In La that gets u time on the bench Look at Gaborik his ice time dropped in la No way would his scoring go up

Next again ur rookies would be at least 2 years as no one is garented a spot out of jr on the kings. If they have jr eligibility they would be there next year. If not they spend a year in the ahl min Then they get there call up for a handful of games get sent by down to work on there game most likely defensive side. This is the way kings do things . Sorry to tell you its been a long time since la had someone make there roster out of jr. y

 

[DRW204]

as a neutral fan, the problem i see with MTL, their C woes and a deal involving Patches is that

A) No team has a readily available bonafide 1C for trade.
B) Patches plays arguably the deepest position in the league (LW) and generally wingers have the lowest return in trades (between Fs and D). Which team is really in dire need of a LW and is willing to give up a C for it? Especially a LW with 1 year left. Ws are pretty deep as UFAs as well so the only cost is $ for a team not players/picks/prospects.
C) A lot of the upper echelon C prospects ie: Vilardi, Thomas, Steel, Necas are succession plans for an aging C core (Vilardi/Steel) or are being groomed to be top 6 Cs for C-desperate teams (CAR/STL). Trading them might make those teams in the position that MTL is in few years from now

the best bet is to draft or sign one because i am unsure if they can acquire a SUREFIRE 1C in a trade. Perhaps a project C like STL acquired in B. Schenn last off-season, but not a bonafide 1C imo. They tried this route with Drouin and it failed.

Habs fans will cite his stats over the last 5 years and whatnot, but why move a 1st+prospect for Patches when you can get a guy like JVR for just $ basically. is the extra year of Patches cap hit of 1 year under 5M worth a 1st+prospect? He'll likely get a similar deal to JVR (and the chance of the acquiring team losing him) a year later..the there's guys like Nash, Kane, Vanek, Neal, Perron etc.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Every game i watched Montreal this year He cheated to the offensive zone. (aka cherry picking) while the puck was in the defensive zone. In la he would have to play 200 foot hockey. I am not saying he doesn't do it sometimes but from what i seen when hes in a slump scoring he ll cheat to the offensive side more often then not. In La that gets u time on the bench Look at Gaborik his ice time dropped in la No way would his scoring go up

Next again ur rookies would be at least 2 years as no one is garented a spot out of jr on the kings. If they have jr eligibility they would be there next year. If not they spend a year in the ahl min Then they get there call up for a handful of games get sent by down to work on there game most likely defensive side. This is the way kings do things . Sorry to tell you its been a long time since la had someone make there roster out of jr. y

Gaborik is not comparable to Pacioretty. Pacioretty is a good defensive player. Stop talking out of your bum.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Gaborik is not comparable to Pacioretty. Pacioretty is a good defensive player. Stop talking out of your bum.

So was gaborik He started out in Minnesota under Jacques Lemire (sp) one of the best defensive minded coaches of his time. Gaborik was very under rated defensively when he was healthy I think he was as good as patches but like patches he cheat to the offensive zone at times and he simply didnt get the mins when he did because of it.

 

[rent free]

How about Pacioretty + 2018 1st to LA for Muzzin + Vilardi + 2018 1st? Who says no?

la for sure. montreal fills a lot of holes with this trade whereas la gets a player coming off of a poor season who is a pending ufa next season.

 

[admiralcadillac]

So was gaborik He started out in Minnesota under Jacques Lemire (sp) one of the best defensive minded coaches of his time. Gaborik was very under rated defensively when he was healthy I think he was as good as patches but like patches he cheat to the offensive zone at times and he simply didnt get the mins when he did because of it.

Gaborik, at the time, was one of the best wingers in the game. Pacioretty's value is more comparable to Gaborik then than now.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Gaborik, at the time, was one of the best wingers in the game. Pacioretty's value is more comparable to Gaborik then than now.

and thats why i said Patches scoring would go down

 

[72hockey guy]

Sure thing. Let's forget how he was hurt and didn't play with bona fide first line players.

Why don't we do the same argument for every player that has a down year following a longstanding streak of several productive years. They must all have taken a dive they'll never be able to recover from. Good to know.

yes we should because what he did 5 years ago isnt as relevant as what he's doing today and that goes for ANY player

you keep saying forget what he did this year, im saying look at his whole career but give more weight to the current data, because its more relevant and thats for everyone because people age and things change

those are the facts of life whether habs fans like it or not

 

[72hockey guy]

Who are these "Habs fans"? Every team has fans who are compulsive, that doesn't mean the entire fan base should be painted with the same brush. I really don't care who the Habs trade with, only interested in a reasonable return, which I am skeptical about given how incompetent Habs management has been.

A low return on Pacioretty is certainly possible if Marc Bergevin is handling the deal.

it does if every poster who opens a thread says the islanders will give up a first for him when several different Islander fans have already said we have no need for pacioretty and we need defense. you are merely trying to raise offers by using the islanders

Im just stating its totally untrue and will continue to do so every single time a habs fan uses that false narrative. it seems to me that habs fans including you use that or other false narratives as your go to arguments.

"If pacioretty played with (insert any top quality player here) he would return to being a 35 goal scorer"

im saying prove it, you cant prove it, so stop using it, the statement is false on its face. it is no more true than if you said If the habs were to sign you, youd immediately score a 100 goals and win the MVP

you and any hab fan who does that is full of it, because false narratives are just that FALSE

why would anyone give any credibility to any response based upon lies? They arent even opinions because they have no basis in reality

saying pacioretty is a top 5 LW in the NHL is factually untrue.

if you believe he is feel free to keep him, thats your Prerogative, but if youre trying to trade him keep your false narratives to yourself, the rest of us deal in reality