Player Discussion Max Pacioretty discussion part VII: Maximus Decimus Tradius Valus

[Adam Michaels]

Skinner has more goals over the past 3 years and is younger. A similar return for Max should be expected. Probably smart to wait until the deadline and hope he has a good season to maximize the return

Last 3 seasons combined:

Jeff Skinner - 243 GP - 89G - 79A - 163 pts - .67 PPG
Max Pacioretty - 227 GP - 82G - 86A - 168 pts - .74 PPG

Not much difference except Skinner has played 16 more games than Max in the last 3 seasons. But if you add previous years as well, Max has scored more goals and points.

 

[Deebs]

Last 3 seasons combined:

Jeff Skinner - 243 GP - 89G - 79A - 163 pts - .67 PPG
Max Pacioretty - 227 GP - 82G - 86A - 168 pts - .74 PPG

Not much difference except Skinner has played 16 more games than Max in the last 3 seasons.

Yeah, so like I said, expect a similar return

 

[Deebs]

What if Max were to get injured though? There is too much risk with having him go into this season in a habs jersey, he is also going to be a ufa next year and teams will pay less for him as a rental. He should have been traded by the deadline last season but Bergevin probably didn't want to do it because he felt like we still had a chance to make it.

The injury factor is huge, especially for Max as he gets older. Tough call. It would be nice to move him right away, just not sure it will happen

 

[nhlfan9191]

and 4 years ago Skinner had 18 g and 31 pts. Since the lockout, he's had 140g 248 pts in 391 games, (33, 18, 28, 37, 24).

Pac since the lockout has, 158g 295 pts in 380 games (39, 37, 30, 35, 17)

Pac makes 1.225M less in cap hit and 1M less in salary.

Not a huge gap considering it’s over a several year span. Either way, the return doesn’t look great for Pacioretty as of now.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Yeah, so like I said, expect a similar return

That's not how it works, though.

I say again, Skinner had a NMC. Carolina had very little to work with as Skinner had a say on where he will accept to be traded. Max doesn't have any of that holding the Habs back.

So what is Max's value? What Skinner just went for? Or is it maybe what Rangers got for Nash at TDL (1st + 7th + Ryan Spooner + Ryan Lindgren)?

LA was reportedly ready to part with a 1st and at least a 2nd for Max, and possibly other pieces. So teams are willing to pay up.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Skinner had a NTC limiting the teams he could go to, which likely listened the return a little.

I guess a lot of people read Basu, who's f***ing terrible.

 

[OldCraig71]

The injury factor is huge, especially for Max as he gets older. Tough call. It would be nice to move him right away, just not sure it will happen

It also seems as though Pacioretty is willing to make Bergevin squirm if you will. It was also a very questionable move to release info that you have no plans of making a contract offer to your captain, why would this news ever get out? If Pacioretty plays for us this season, consider it nothing short of disastrous.

 

[montreal]

Not a huge gap considering it’s over a several year span. Either way, the return doesn’t look great for Pacioretty as of now.

depends on your definition, 47 pts in 11 less games is kind of big to me, granted we have had some better teams then the Canes over that span. In the case of Pac you clearly have a much more consistent goal scorer that up until last year he was good for 35 g per year on average, so it should come down to why you think he only scored 17g in 64 after being a 35g a year ave over 4 years.

 

[Deebs]

That's not how it works, though.

I say again, Skinner had a NMC. Carolina had very little to work with as Skinner had a say on where he will accept to be traded. Max doesn't have any of that holding the Habs back.

So what is Max's value? What Skinner just went for? Or is it maybe what Rangers got for Nash at TDL (1st + 7th + Ryan Spooner + Ryan Lindgren)?

LA was reportedly ready to part with a 1st and at least a 2nd for Max, and possibly other pieces. So teams are willing to pay up.

If teams are willing to pay up then why is he still here?

 

[Adam Michaels]

If teams are willing to pay up then why is he still here?

One possibility is that they're talking with a few teams, going back and forth with propositions and different players involved in different scenarios. One other scenario is with Max's agent also involved in a possibly move, some may include an extension.

 

[nhlfan9191]

depends on your definition, 47 pts in 11 less games is kind of big to me, granted we have had some better teams then the Canes over that span. In the case of Pac you clearly have a much more consistent goal scorer that up until last year he was good for 35 g per year on average, so it should come down to why you think he only scored 17g in 64 after being a 35g a year ave over 4 years.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Pacioretty is the better player right now, but not enough to warrant some huge increase in value from Skinner. If that’s what scoring LW’er’s are going for, I don’t expect a lot more right now which is disappointing which is why I could see them potentially taking their chances on the trade deadline next year or an offer sometime during the regular season if the right one comes. I think we completely missed the chance to bank on him last year while management refused to admit the roster was trash But we’ll have to wait and see before I can say forsure. Pacioretty, Price, and Subban could’ve fueled a complete retool/rebuild 1-2 years ago and we’ve watched these assets completely tank value wise.

 

[vokiel]

One possibility is that they're talking with a few teams, going back and forth with propositions and different players involved in different scenarios. One other scenario is with Max's agent also involved in a possibly move, some may include an extension.

How about the scenario where they're sitting on a beach not giving a shit?

 

[CalgarySnow]

Ok can someone explain why a team would want Patioready at the TDL? Playoff teams certainly wouldn’t as I can’t remember him ever turning up in the playoffs which surely diminishes his value for him being a rental.

If it’s true that Bergevin and Pacioretty dislike each other I see a scenario where Bergevin takes the C off him (which I would be happy with as I’ve never seen him as captain material, too wishy-washy) and Maxie stays put to walk to piss off Bergevin. Have to say it seems strange for me that piss is acceptable and not a swear word as in the UK it is.

 

[angry pirate]

It also seems as though Pacioretty is willing to make Bergevin squirm if you will. It was also a very questionable move to release info that you have no plans of making a contract offer to your captain, why would this news ever get out? If Pacioretty plays for us this season, consider it nothing short of disastrous.

It got out because Max wants to stay in Montreal and Allan Walsh did Allan Walsh things. Who benefits most from reducing Max's trade value? If he wants to stay in Montreal than it's him. Delay the trade as long as possible, have a rebound year and maybe you change hearts and minds. If this report came from an actual source, and isn't just the Montreal media editorializing opinions as facts, than I have no doubt it came from Allan Walsh. And even if Allan Walsh is privately passing this along to the media, we all know sports media doesn't necessarily maintain the highest standards so it's not like they care if he's even telling the truth or not. They'll print that comment, even anonymously because they know it's going to generate a lot of traffic.

 

[yianik]

I recently predicted Patches would be gone before the puck drops on the season no matter what the return.

This Skinner return is awful.

It would appear there is bad blood between Patches and MB.

So inside the mind of MB, who seems to bring in non on ice hockey considerations on his actions.

Does MB decide Patches isnt going anywhere for a garbage return that Skinner got, and he will keep him and takes his chances at the TDL if it comes to it ? Or does MB use the Skinner trade as an excuse to take anything above the Skinner assets and do a PC where he says that the Skinner trade set the market and he thinks he got a good return in that context ?

Personally, I hang on to Patches if this is the best being offered, and wait it out to the TDL. Quite frankly, I am starting to wonder about trading Patches at all, and I have been suggesting he be traded for over two years now. I hate the fact he is such a perimeter player and as such disappears in the post season, there is the expansion draft, and keeping him only makes sense if we have a good team in 2-3 years. Flip side is he scores 30 goals plus and given his style of play he could keep it up for years to come, and how many good players who can score 30 would ever come here as a UFA ? Yeah. And this guy wants to stay here.

Whats funny is if Patches stays here to start the season, I could see MB stripping him of the C, because that would just be the worst thing he could possibly do and it would nicely set the tone for more chaos, The Montreal Chaotics.

 

[WinterLion]

I think it's fair to say that the return will be similar to what Skinner fetched. .. hopefully we can do a bit better. I think Patches is better and brings more overall to a team.

Skinner got:
B prospect
2nd
3rd
6th

Hopefully we can get an A prospect & a 2nd. Or a 1st and 2nd.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

If thats the kind offer we are getting for Patch, then I would rather trade him during the season or tdl

 

[Adam Michaels]

How about the scenario where they're sitting on a beach not giving a ****?

Pictures of their off-season:

 

[OldCraig71]

It got out because Max wants to stay in Montreal and Allan Walsh did Allan Walsh things. Who benefits most from reducing Max's trade value? If he wants to stay in Montreal than it's him. Delay the trade as long as possible, have a rebound year and maybe you change hearts and minds. If this report came from an actual source, and isn't just the Montreal media editorializing opinions as facts, than I have no doubt it came from Allan Walsh. And even if Allan Walsh is privately passing this along to the media, we all know sports media doesn't necessarily maintain the highest standards so it's not like they care if he's even telling the truth or not. They'll print that comment, even anonymously because they know it's going to generate a lot of traffic.

Usually Walsh is not shy to take credit for anything concerning one of his clients and we would have known if it was him. If Max stays and gets injured, then what? We run the risk of next to nothing in return for a player set to become a free agent any way.

 

[Locks]

""

 

[sandysan]

That's not how it works, though.

I say again, Skinner had a NMC. Carolina had very little to work with as Skinner had a say on where he will accept to be traded. Max doesn't have any of that holding the Habs back.

So what is Max's value? What Skinner just went for? Or is it maybe what Rangers got for Nash at TDL (1st + 7th + Ryan Spooner + Ryan Lindgren)?

LA was reportedly ready to part with a 1st and at least a 2nd for Max, and possibly other pieces. So teams are willing to pay up.

la was willing provided max extended. He said no.

To suggest that he doesn't have control because he doesn't have a Nov is not true.

The return for Skinner looks like the best we are going to get for max. If a team really wants him, if he's going to go if a that team can wait and not give up anything to acquire him.

Third ( pu), a second and a sixth for skinner, that's the BEST return we can hope to get for 67

 

[NobleSix]

I think it's fair to say that the return will be similar to what Skinner fetched. .. hopefully we can do a bit better. I think Patches is better and brings more overall to a team.

Skinner got:
B prospect
2nd
3rd
6th

Hopefully we can get an A prospect & a 2nd. Or a 1st and 2nd.

If we don't get either an A level prospect or a 1st round pick coming back, then the trade is a monumental failure. Hold on to him until the deadline. You'll be able to get at least one of those pieces.

f*** that Skinner return. Anyway you slice it, that was a terrible trade for the Canes. I dont even want to consider some garbage offer similar to what the Canes got.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Rick Dudley at work, the NHL's finest on display. lol. So glad he's gone, but it's too bad his foxhole buddy was left behind.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, so like I said, expect a similar return

I rater sign Patch to 6 years at $8M AAV than trade him for a Skinner type return. Canes traded him for the absolute low value possible. That is not the game plan for Patch and surely we can get better at the next deadline. A lot has to do with circumstance and trading Patch right now cause we feel we have to before the season starts is not smart. Who cares about the distraction... it's happens all the time in Montreal.

Best time to trade Patch at this stage is from November/December - Trade Deadline. Certainly not before the season starts. Let teams play out the beginning of their seasons.

Patch is heading into a contract year and is going to show up.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I rater sign Patch to 6 years at $8M AAV than trade him for a Skinner type return. Canes traded him for the absolute low value possible. That is not the game plan for Patch and surely we can get better at the next deadline. A lot has to do with circumstance and trading Patch right now cause we feel we have to before the season starts is not smart. Who cares about the distraction... it's happens all the time in Montreal.

Best time to trade Patch at this stage is from November/December - Trade Deadline. Certainly not before the season starts. Let teams play out the beginning of their seasons.

Patch is heading into a contract year and is going to show up.

Nope, I'd much rather swallow our losses and not commit to another horrible contract where the most likely outcome is that it helps prevent the team from being competitive down the road. Re-signing him should be completely off the table imo, MB actually has the correct stance here in not wanting to sign him; however, his approach here seems to have boxed himself into a corner somewhat. Leave it to MB to actively work against himself.