Matthews vs Gilmour

[The90]

Only reason Matthews is leading this poll is perhaps the majority of voters to that picked him were not old enough to recall Gilmour in his prime from 92-94. I saw Sittler, Salming, Mcdonald, Sundin in their primes and none of them came close to Doug Gilmour’s impact on and off the ice, nevermind Matthews who yes scored 60 in perhaps his career year which right now looks like an aberration, he will need to do it again to prove he can repeat a year like that and more importantly lead his team to consecutive final 4 appearances, Gilmour has done this, gilmour in those 2 prime years was by far the better and more impactful player. Perhaps the best Leaf in those 2 prime years.

Also, Matthews is better. Even if he hasn’t had ‘that’ playoffs, yet.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Point is 2 of the greatest players to ever play this game, and the greatest team of the cap era didn't win right away. Far from it.

Sure. It’s a fair point. But they did show progress before their Cups as did Tampa.
And then you have Thornton, Henrik Sedin etc who also won multiple individual awards but never got over the hump.

 

[ACC1224]

All time = All Time......it's not that far fetched. If Matthews brings the cup to Toronto in heroic fashion (he can't just be a passenger....he'll need to be the leader....which is a stretch to begin with) it's not a hard argument that he gets to greatest Leaf of all-time. The stretch is what needs to happen in the playoffs actually happening. In terms of all times goals and points lists, he should have no problem getting to the top of that eventually if he's healthy enough and stays with the team.....Marner seems to be the challenger right now for points.

Matthews and Marner will finish one/two in points and will both be on Legends Row when their careers end.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

All time = All Time......it's not that far fetched. If Matthews brings the cup to Toronto in heroic fashion (he can't just be a passenger....he'll need to be the leader....which is a stretch to begin with) it's not a hard argument that he gets to greatest Leaf of all-time. The stretch is what needs to happen in the playoffs actually happening. In terms of all times goals and points lists, he should have no problem getting to the top of that eventually if he's healthy enough and stays with the team.....Marner seems to be the challenger right now for points.

It’s not really fair to compare players who play in an 82 game season to those who played a 50 game season. That does a disservice to a lot of great Leaf players of the past.

 

[notbias]

I know Matthews is the worst playoff performer ever so this is impossible, but here is a list of worse active players.

Marchand, Couture, ROR, Scheifele, Giroux, Robertson, Kadri, Kopitar, Tkachuk, Backstrom, Zibanajed, Hubeardeau, Panarin, Johansen, Nylander, Tavares, RNH, Barkov, Gaudreau, Duchene, Stone, Hintz, Stamkos, Kuznetsov, Pavelski, Marchessault, Verhaeghe, Benn, Smith, Hall, Barzal, Suzuki, Karlsson, Forsberg, Wheeler, PLD, Hertl, Connor, Laine, Hyman, Oshie, Pacioretty, Tarasenko, Svehcnikov, Caufield, Fiala... and there is much more.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Matthews and Marner will finish one/two in points and will both be on Legends Row when their careers end.

For what? Only if there is some tangible playoff success. If they don't at least have a couple of long playoff runs, they shouldn't be on legends row. Legends are made in the playoffs. So sick of worshiping these guys get for doing relatively little.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I know Matthews is the worst playoff performer ever so this is impossible, but here is a list of worse active players.

Marchand, Couture, ROR, Scheifele, Giroux, Robertson, Kadri, Kopitar, Tkachuk, Backstrom, Zibanajed, Hubeardeau, Panarin, Johansen, Nylander, Tavares, RNH, Barkov, Gaudreau, Duchene, Stone, Hintz, Stamkos, Kuznetsov, Pavelski, Marchessault, Verhaeghe, Benn, Smith, Hall, Barzal, Suzuki, Karlsson, Forsberg, Wheeler, PLD, Hertl, Connor, Laine, Hyman, Oshie, Pacioretty, Tarasenko, Svehcnikov, Caufield, Fiala... and there is much more.

On the first name, obviously Marchand has way more points, points per game, which is what you’re comparing.
The difference is 0.003 p/g or 1/4 of one point over 82 playoff games.
Or 1 point over 325 playoff games( which no one has ever played)

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Only reason Matthews is leading this poll is perhaps the majority of voters to that picked him were not old enough to recall Gilmour in his prime from 92-94. I saw Sittler, Salming, Mcdonald, Sundin in their primes and none of them came close to Doug Gilmour’s impact on and off the ice, nevermind Matthews who yes scored 60 in perhaps his career year which right now looks like an aberration, he will need to do it again to prove he can repeat a year like that and more importantly lead his team to consecutive final 4 appearances, Gilmour has done this, gilmour in those 2 prime years was by far the better and more impactful player. Perhaps the best Leaf in those 2 prime years.

well I hope so, Gilmour was 29 in 1992-93 and he played on a Cup winner before so he knows what it took
I'll wait until Matthews turns 29 to past judgement on who's the better player but for now I'll take Matthews cause he's done more at a younger age than Gilmour did

 

[ACC1224]

For what? Only if there is some tangible playoff success. If they don't at least have a couple of long playoff runs, they shouldn't be on legends row. Legends are made in the playoffs. So sick of worshiping these guys get for doing relatively little.

Career scoring leaders, it was right in my post.

 

[FrankSidebottom]

I know Matthews is the worst playoff performer ever so this is impossible, but here is a list of worse active players.

Marchand, Couture, ROR, Scheifele, Giroux, Robertson, Kadri, Kopitar, Tkachuk, Backstrom, Zibanajed, Hubeardeau, Panarin, Johansen, Nylander, Tavares, RNH, Barkov, Gaudreau, Duchene, Stone, Hintz, Stamkos, Kuznetsov, Pavelski, Marchessault, Verhaeghe, Benn, Smith, Hall, Barzal, Suzuki, Karlsson, Forsberg, Wheeler, PLD, Hertl, Connor, Laine, Hyman, Oshie, Pacioretty, Tarasenko, Svehcnikov, Caufield, Fiala... and there is much more.

[mod] that’s such a bulls**t oh boy… Calling guys who literally won CS or were the main drivers of cup winning teams worse playoff performers is an opinion. I mean, Couture had a run with 30 points in 24 games and he’s far from the best here.

And I don’t think you honestly should compare Matthews to, you know, Verhaeghes, Caufields etc.

 

[Toby91ca]

For what? Only if there is some tangible playoff success. If they don't at least have a couple of long playoff runs, they shouldn't be on legends row. Legends are made in the playoffs. So sick of worshiping these guys get for doing relatively little.

Agree, there needs to be more success....but through their age of 25, very few Leafs on Legends Row have had much playoff success. I think only Kennedy and Keon would fit that bill. Sittler and Salming never really had much success at any age, some but very little.

 

[notbias]

[mod] that’s such a bulls**t oh boy… Calling guys who literally won CS or were the main drivers of cup winning teams worse playoff performers is an opinion. I mean, Couture had a run with 30 points in 24 games and he’s far from the best here.

And I don’t think you honestly should compare Matthews to, you know, Verhaeghes, Caufields etc.

PPG is all anyone uses, just using the same PPG.

A whole list of playoff disappointments.

On the first name, obviously Marchand has way more points, points per game, which is what you’re comparing.
The difference is 0.003 p/g or 1/4 of one point over 82 playoff games.
Or 1 point over 325 playoff games( which no one has ever played)

Exactly, so Matthews > Marchand

PPG is all that matters when it comes to Matthews, just using the same values.

Marchand is closest to Matthews on that list.

 

[Golden_Jet]

PPG is all anyone uses, just using the same PPG.

A whole list of playoff disappointments.



Exactly, so Matthews > Marchand

PPG is all that matters when it comes to Matthews, just using the same values.

Marchand is closest to Matthews on that list.

Ya one point over 325 games is a huge difference lol.
PPG is all what leaf fans use.

 

[Regal]

PPG is all anyone uses, just using the same PPG.

A whole list of playoff disappointments.



Exactly, so Matthews > Marchand

PPG is all that matters when it comes to Matthews, just using the same values.

Marchand is closest to Matthews on that list.

Who said career PPG is all that matters? Like I get being facetious when people go too far with dumb takes, but there needs to be a basis for it.

 

[Regal]

All time = All Time......it's not that far fetched. If Matthews brings the cup to Toronto in heroic fashion (he can't just be a passenger....he'll need to be the leader....which is a stretch to begin with) it's not a hard argument that he gets to greatest Leaf of all-time. The stretch is what needs to happen in the playoffs actually happening. In terms of all times goals and points lists, he should have no problem getting to the top of that eventually if he's healthy enough and stays with the team.....Marner seems to be the challenger right now for points.

It’s tough because others were part of multiple cups, but then, it’s a lot harder to win today than in a 6 team league. If he won once, but he didn’t have a very good playoff career outside of that, is it enough? Probably in the minds of most Leafs fans since no one under 60 remembers the last one, but objectively, he’d probably have to also separate himself with more regular seasons like ‘21 and ‘22.

 

[notbias]

Who said career PPG is all that matters? Like I get being facetious when people go too far with dumb takes, but there needs to be a basis for it.

No one brings up Matthews' PPG pace for the last three seasons when talking about if he is good in the playoffs.

His career PPG seems to be all that matters.

 

[Toby91ca]

It’s tough because others were part of multiple cups, but then, it’s a lot harder to win today than in a 6 team league. If he won once, but he didn’t have a very good playoff career outside of that, is it enough? Probably in the minds of most Leafs fans since no one under 60 remembers the last one, but objectively, he’d probably have to also separate himself with more regular seasons like ‘21 and ‘22.

Yeah, like I said, he'd not only have to win the cup, but also have to performing very well in getting there. The good news there is that if he's winning the cup he's also likely crossing the other (doing well) off the list as well as they have no chance if he doesn't......problem is, he has to break through and perform and even if he does, winning the cup is simply way more difficult than it used to be....only 1 out of 32 can do it each year.

 

[Toby91ca]

Exactly, so Matthews > Marchand

PPG is all that matters when it comes to Matthews, just using the same values.

Marchand is closest to Matthews on that list.

I think what some would point out is playoff performance vs. regular season though. Marchand goes from 0.91 in regular season to 0.88 in playoffs vs. Matthews going from 1.13 in reg season to 0.88 in playoffs. 0.88 is good, but big drop off from regular season production.

I actually don't pay too much attention to that though, the PPG in playoffs can get so skewed in either direction simply due to low games played each season, I actually doubt people would be talking about his playoff performance if they were getting to the conference finals and finals consistently.

 

[The90]

Ya one point over 325 games is a huge difference lol

Well to be fair injuries are always used against Matthews as well when in reality he averages the same amount of games missed during his career as Mcdavid lol

Any inch to make a tad of a point.

 

[Regal]

No one brings up Matthews' PPG pace for the last three seasons when talking about if he is good in the playoffs.

His career PPG seems to be all that matters.

Is it his career PPG that gets brought up much though? I haven’t seen it often in this thread. I think the criticism seems to stem more from his visual performance. It’s not that he’s been Tomas Tatar or something, but that he hasn’t seemed to bring his A game in big moments so far or had a truly dominant performance that you would hope from someone as talented as he is at some point.

Even with PPG though, sure, the last three years he’s at 1.00 with 25 in 25. That’s pretty good. But McDavid and Draisaitl are over 1.7 and Marchand, Kucherov, Makar, MacKinnon and Rantanen are over 1.2. He should be more in line with that group given he’s at 1.29 in the regular season the past three years.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

well I hope so, Gilmour was 29 in 1992-93 and he played on a Cup winner before so he knows what it took
I'll wait until Matthews turns 29 to past judgement on who's the better player but for now I'll take Matthews cause he's done more at a younger age than Gilmour did

I don’t think you can look at 2 separate players careers and say they both peak at 29 or any random age. Injuries and wear and tear are not linear. Some players have their best statistical years when they are younger some find the perfect storm at a later age. Gilmour who was already a very good player came into his own when he became the #1 player on the Leafs under Burns. Where he became a superstar player. He was not only the best offensive player on the ice he was the best defensive player on it too. Burns played the heck out of him and Dougie thrived on this. I do agree we will have to wait to see if Matthews can translate his statistical flash into substance as Gilmor did. But right now if you want to go to war when you need to win a game. I take Gilmour 100% of the time over Matthews who looks more like a player playing for a pay day. Substance over flash until proven otherwise.

 

[thadd]

Prime Gilmore was one of the hardest players to play against in the league, while he put up impressive point totals.

Cannot say that same for the best version we've seen of Matthews thus far.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Killer was a better all around player. He had a physical aspect that Matthews does not have

 

[My3Sons]

Prime Gilmour easily. No way Matthews could have developed the four note progression for Shine On and I doubt he'd have the feel to create the delicate chords for Wish You Were Here. Not sure how OP thought they could even be compared. Really embarrassing.

 

[wintersej]

delete