TSN: Matthews on TSN: "We really don't care what other people think".

[AvroArrow]

Absolutely nobody on this board should be upset with Matthews. Not with his performance, work ethic and consistency. He's the one guy that has been a beast for us throughout the entire year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You do remember that Cam Neely was so upset with Boston’s performance after 2014-15 that they traded Dougie Hamilton, Milan Lucic, Rielly Smith right? They actually tore down that team and retooled it.

Boston had dropped 21 points and missed the playoffs. Not really comparable. And they didn't "tear the team down" as a result.

Hamilton was the only one there that could be considered a core piece moving forward, and they wanted to keep him. It had nothing to do with the 14/15 performance. Hamilton didn't want to stay in Boston. Also, they lost that trade horribly. They got way less value than he was worth, and everybody they drafted from those draft picks has essentially busted. They have basically nothing left from that trade; they lost a young emerging 9th overall pick that many now consider a #1 defenseman for nothing.

Rielly Smith wasn't traded due to the failure. He was a good player that was thrown away for nothing as part of a cap dump to get rid of Savard's contract. They have nothing left from that trade.

Lucic trade was good, but they didn't see him as part of their core moving forward. They weren't going to re-sign him, so they traded him when they got a massive overpayment from a team that - surprise - way overvalued and overpaid for "grit". Interestingly, despite the great returns, they still ended up with basically nothing from that trade either. The players they drafted with that pick and the pick from the subsequent Jones trade have essentially busted. Miller played 1 mediocre season with them and then got taken in the expansion draft. They basically ended up with Kuraly, a 4th liner, from the subsequent Jones trade.

The result from all this? Boston dropped 3 more points the next year and missed the playoffs again.
The year after that? Still got less points than 14/15, and lost in the first round in 6 games to Ottawa, a team that missed the playoffs in 2 out of the 3 years before that season (losing in the 1st round in the other), and ever since that season.

What actually helped them improve? Giving bigger roles to small, skilled players (Marchand, Pastrnak), and getting better goaltending (2nd in the league since 2017-2018, up from 15th the previous 3 years despite similar team defense), especially from their backup (56-23-17, 0.919 SV%).

 

[ACC1224]

Boston's first 4 years having Pasta and Krug in the same core saw them miss the playoffs twice.

Can you imagine if they gave up on Marchand after 15/16.......8 seasons until he finally went point per game. If he was a Leaf this place would have eaten him alive.

We're not allowed considering things like that though

Marchand for Brodin let's goooo.

Seems more like an exception than a rule.
Colorado for example moved on from a couple core guys and seem better for it.
Every team and circumstance is different.

 

[Trapper]

Seems more like an exception than a rule.
Colorado for example moved on from a couple core guys and seem better for it.
Every team and circumstance is different.

You need a balance. Boston moved on from Kessel/Seguin/Hamilton but they also moved on from Lucic/Horton etc.
You don’t have all the same types of players.

They keep the main assembly, Bergeron/Krejci/Marchand/Chara that was prime to winning a cup.

In comes players like Pastrnak, McAvoy,Debrusk,Carlo. They aren’t all the same types of players. Marner/Nylander/Johnsson/Barrie, pickups of Petan/Malgin/Aberg for the most part are the same types of players. We desperately need a solid 3rd D to go along with Rielly/Muzzin. Someone who is extremely dependable. Then the above group I mentioned needs to be altered. A Marner/Nylander needs to be someone skilled with more of a Hyman/Debrusk DNA.

 

[Bluelines]

Boston had dropped 21 points and missed the playoffs. Not really comparable. And they didn't "tear the team down" as a result.

While we didn't have a horrid season for most teams, I think our season by any measure based on preseason expectations was a big disappointment, coach was fired, we failed to make the playoffs. Our big off season trade was a failure, Barrie clearly under performed, Kerfoot clearly under performed, I think the reasons are pretty obvious for both of those skaters. We had to trade a 1st rounder to a conference rival to dump Marleau. None of our prospects made the jump to full time NHLer, (Engvall did but he seems to be a flash in the pan) all though Sandin and Robertson are probably the closest. Lilly didn't take the jump to the NHL, I was hoping he would continue to develop but he looks like he might beheaded for a long AHL career. We look at our holes on our big team and there are no obvious solutions in the prospect pipeline to fix those holes.

I personally feel the Leafs need a substantial reset of their plan, the East feels, to me, equal, on any given night any team, except for a few bottom dwellers could win. Other teams are young and up and coming. Ottawa is on its way, they arguably have a better projected upside, such a deep farm system, with multiple blue chip prospects on the back end and multiple high end talent on the front end. Montreal while not as deep from a talent perspective seem to have a better balance in their lineup. Boston and Tampa are going to be elite teams for years to come. Carolina looks like a solid team, Philly, Washington, Islanders are all as good or better than the Leafs. CBJ has proven they can beat us in a playoff style series. Unless the big 4 can make considerable growth this summer/Fall Toronto has IMO plateaued.

I think Dubas need to make a substantial personnel change, not just swapping a couple of 4th liners. Not a rebuild, a reset.

 

[DarkKnight]

Absolutely nobody on this board should be upset with Matthews. Not with his performance, work ethic and consistency. He's the one guy that has been a beast for us throughout the entire year.

Yes, I would agree, Matthews took a big leadership step this year, WAY more consistent and firmly engaged. Defensively, a new level. His motor improved as well, he didn’t drift off or disappear, bodes very well for the future. He showed me a lot more this year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

While we didn't have a horrid season for most teams, I think our season by any measure based on preseason expectations was a big disappointment

I would agree that it was disappointing relative to preseason expectations, but we also didn't expect Andersen to suddenly suck, Hutchinson to suddenly suck that much, for us to run into nonstop devastating injuries, or for us to run into essentially prime Hasek in the playoffs in a 5 game series after the NHL cancelled the rest of the season due to a global pandemic. We had bad luck in pretty much everything this year. And it's still not close to the disappointment that Boston was that year, going from the President's trophy to out of the playoffs, and they didn't blow it up.

coach was fired, we failed to make the playoffs. Our big off season trade was a failure, Barrie clearly under performed, Kerfoot clearly under performed, I think the reasons are pretty obvious for both of those skaters. We had to trade a 1st rounder to a conference rival to dump Marleau. None of our prospects made the jump to full time NHLer, (Engvall did but he seems to be a flash in the pan) all though Sandin and Robertson are probably the closest. Lilly didn't take the jump to the NHL, I was hoping he would continue to develop but he looks like he might beheaded for a long AHL career. We look at our holes on our big team and there are no obvious solutions in the prospect pipeline to fix those holes.

1. Coach being fired obviously isn't indicative of great things, but it's better for this team moving forward.
2. We did technically make the playoffs, though I understand why some see it as a step back.
3. I wouldn't exactly call it a failure. Disappointing relative to expectations? Yes, though I'd be curious what you think the "pretty obvious reasons" are. Kerfoot had a broken face for half the year, and looked good otherwise. Barrie got derailed by Babcock trying to completely change him, but he was much better under Keefe and we likely would have been in real trouble with all of the defensive injuries without him.
4. Losing a 1st sucks. It being higher due to the new playoff format sucks too. Still better than the alternatives we had available to us.
5. Holl came out of nowhere and played well. Mikyehev played well. Engvall emerged as an NHLer. Robertson joined us in the playoffs and played well after an outstanding OHL season.
6. Calling Liljegren a career AHL is way, way, way too premature. He was 20 years old this season, and both he and Sandin showed progression.
7. Many of our prospects had huge years. LW and D are our weakest positions. Our top 3 prospects are a LW and two D. We also signed the best defender in the KHL for next season.

Other teams are young and up and coming. Ottawa is on its way, they arguably have a better projected upside, such a deep farm system, with multiple blue chip prospects on the back end and multiple high end talent on the front end. Montreal while not as deep from a talent perspective seem to have a better balance in their lineup. Boston and Tampa are going to be elite teams for years to come. Carolina looks like a solid team, Philly, Washington, Islanders are all as good or better than the Leafs. CBJ has proven they can beat us in a playoff style series. Unless the big 4 can make considerable growth this summer/Fall Toronto has IMO plateaued.

Ottawa is still garbage. They have some nice prospects, but we don't know how they will develop, and they are missing some key pieces. Montreal is not better balanced. They are good defensively and that's about it. Their starter is more hot and cold than Andersen. Boston is getting old, and could easily see a decline in the coming years as they lose pieces to age or cap. Tampa is in actual cap hell, and have no choice but to downgrade their roster. They wasted a lot of future assets on depth players this year. There's really nothing special about Carolina. They have some nice pieces on offense, but their defense does not get good results despite significant expenditure, and they don't have a reliable starting goalie. Washington is getting old, and some key players of theirs are showing signs of decline. Nothing all that special about the Islanders. They just got carried by hot goaltending for a while, though they do have a nice goalie prospect so they may be able to stay a middling team. Columbus barely beat us with their goaltender going full-Hasek. Not really a sustainable strategy.

There's lots of room for growth with Toronto, especially as our best players move into their primes, and some of our top prospects join the team. I'm not opposed to trades, but we should not be moving the core at this time, and we shouldn't do it for the sake of change; we should do it if there's an upgrade we can make to our team overall.

 

[Bluelines]

I would agree that it was disappointing relative to preseason expectations, but we also didn't expect Andersen to suddenly suck, Hutchinson to suddenly suck that much, for us to run into nonstop devastating injuries, or for us to run into essentially prime Hasek in the playoffs in a 5 game series after the NHL cancelled the rest of the season due to a global pandemic. We had bad luck in pretty much everything this year. And it's still not close to the disappointment that Boston was that year, going from the President's trophy to out of the playoffs, and they didn't blow it up.

1. Coach being fired obviously isn't indicative of great things, but it's better for this team moving forward.
2. We did technically make the playoffs, though I understand why some see it as a step back.
3. I wouldn't exactly call it a failure. Disappointing relative to expectations? Yes, though I'd be curious what you think the "pretty obvious reasons" are. Kerfoot had a broken face for half the year, and looked good otherwise. Barrie got derailed by Babcock trying to completely change him, but he was much better under Keefe and we likely would have been in real trouble with all of the defensive injuries without him.
4. Losing a 1st sucks. It being higher due to the new playoff format sucks too. Still better than the alternatives we had available to us.
5. Holl came out of nowhere and played well. Mikyehev played well. Engvall emerged as an NHLer. Robertson joined us in the playoffs and played well after an outstanding OHL season.
6. Calling Liljegren a career AHL is way, way, way too premature. He was 20 years old this season, and both he and Sandin showed progression.
7. Many of our prospects had huge years. LW and D are our weakest positions. Our top 3 prospects are a LW and two D. We also signed the best defender in the KHL for next season.

Ottawa is still garbage. They have some nice prospects, but we don't know how they will develop, and they are missing some key pieces. Montreal is not better balanced. They are good defensively and that's about it. Their starter is more hot and cold than Andersen. Boston is getting old, and could easily see a decline in the coming years as they lose pieces to age or cap. Tampa is in actual cap hell, and have no choice but to downgrade their roster. They wasted a lot of future assets on depth players this year. There's really nothing special about Carolina. They have some nice pieces on offense, but their defense does not get good results despite significant expenditure, and they don't have a reliable starting goalie. Washington is getting old, and some key players of theirs are showing signs of decline. Nothing all that special about the Islanders. They just got carried by hot goaltending for a while, though they do have a nice goalie prospect so they may be able to stay a middling team. Columbus barely beat us with their goaltender going full-Hasek. Not really a sustainable strategy.

There's lots of room for growth with Toronto, especially as our best players move into their primes, and some of our top prospects join the team. I'm not opposed to trades, but we should not be moving the core at this time, and we shouldn't do it for the sake of change; we should do it if there's an upgrade we can make to our team overall.

Appreciate the thought you put into your response.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

I would agree that it was disappointing relative to preseason expectations, but we also didn't expect Andersen to suddenly suck, Hutchinson to suddenly suck that much, for us to run into nonstop devastating injuries, or for us to run into essentially prime Hasek in the playoffs in a 5 game series after the NHL cancelled the rest of the season due to a global pandemic. We had bad luck in pretty much everything this year. And it's still not close to the disappointment that Boston was that year, going from the President's trophy to out of the playoffs, and they didn't blow it up.

1. Coach being fired obviously isn't indicative of great things, but it's better for this team moving forward.
2. We did technically make the playoffs, though I understand why some see it as a step back.
3. I wouldn't exactly call it a failure. Disappointing relative to expectations? Yes, though I'd be curious what you think the "pretty obvious reasons" are. Kerfoot had a broken face for half the year, and looked good otherwise. Barrie got derailed by Babcock trying to completely change him, but he was much better under Keefe and we likely would have been in real trouble with all of the defensive injuries without him.
4. Losing a 1st sucks. It being higher due to the new playoff format sucks too. Still better than the alternatives we had available to us.
5. Holl came out of nowhere and played well. Mikyehev played well. Engvall emerged as an NHLer. Robertson joined us in the playoffs and played well after an outstanding OHL season.
6. Calling Liljegren a career AHL is way, way, way too premature. He was 20 years old this season, and both he and Sandin showed progression.
7. Many of our prospects had huge years. LW and D are our weakest positions. Our top 3 prospects are a LW and two D. We also signed the best defender in the KHL for next season.

Ottawa is still garbage. They have some nice prospects, but we don't know how they will develop, and they are missing some key pieces. Montreal is not better balanced. They are good defensively and that's about it. Their starter is more hot and cold than Andersen. Boston is getting old, and could easily see a decline in the coming years as they lose pieces to age or cap. Tampa is in actual cap hell, and have no choice but to downgrade their roster. They wasted a lot of future assets on depth players this year. There's really nothing special about Carolina. They have some nice pieces on offense, but their defense does not get good results despite significant expenditure, and they don't have a reliable starting goalie. Washington is getting old, and some key players of theirs are showing signs of decline. Nothing all that special about the Islanders. They just got carried by hot goaltending for a while, though they do have a nice goalie prospect so they may be able to stay a middling team. Columbus barely beat us with their goaltender going full-Hasek. Not really a sustainable strategy.

There's lots of room for growth with Toronto, especially as our best players move into their primes, and some of our top prospects join the team. I'm not opposed to trades, but we should not be moving the core at this time, and we shouldn't do it for the sake of change; we should do it if there's an upgrade we can make to our team overall.

Boy, you really like drinking their kool-aid.
3 straight seasons of getting knocked out in the first round, and not even qualifying for the playoffs this year (or 4 straight seasons of getting knocked out in the 1st round if you’re a kool-aid drinker). And there is always an excuse for each early exit. Not to mention this was the second year in a row we finished with fewer points. Oh, but wait, we must keep this core together, they’re amazing, they’re young, they love being paid (oops, shouldn’t have said that, should I?).
Sometimes I think this “core group” of ours is only looking out for themselves.
If this team stays intact, with only a few minor tweaks, and has a great season and wins a few rounds in the playoffs, I will be the first to come out and say I might have been wrong (that’s right, MIGHT) because it sure as hell will take more than one season to prove otherwise!
Remember, you kool-aid drinkers are the ones saying things that happen can be a fluke, like a hot goaltender, and all the other crap you keep bringing up about why these things keep happening to our Leafs.

 

[shortfuze]

He's still a hot headed child. And some wanted him to be captain.

He has accomplished nothing in his career thus far, yet he has this attitude.

what makes him hot headed?

 

[Puckstuff]

The problem isn’t 40 million to 4 players, the problem is those guys haven’t lived up to their contracts and are not worth 40 million. Matthews 16th in PPG, Marner 17th in PPG, Tavares 36th in ppg despite all 3 being top 5 in salary.

If we took out the big 4 and replaced them with Kucherov, Draisital, Pasternak(sp) and Parayko we would be contending for cups, even if Pasta isn’t lighting it up I’d take him over Tavares. I’d take Drai over Matthews and Kucherov over Marner. Fact is PP isn’t good enough and they need to be lighting it up at 105 + point per game pace for them to be worth that type of money

 

[glue]

So the habs just handed it to Philly and here we are trying to figure out why leafs can’t even win a ROUND! So frustrating..

 

[Crosscrease14]

I like Matthews and all but If you think they 'care' after the David Ayres debacle idk what to say

 

[Cobra777]

That is your right. Personally I see them everywhere. Guess we have nothing further to discuss.

2) They've already taken him to the cleaners? They all signed their deals in the last couple of years. No impatience amongst the fans? Interesting.

not trying to create any waves here but my oh my I was 6 when they won the last stanley cup I think we have been more patient fans than any other hockey club that exists. This Franchise cannot blame its fanbase for its short comings. The Ballard years he was just a cheap skate with stating why should I buy the best players when the rink is always sold out. This Mentality with turning this Franchise into a real estate business under the teachers pension fund, along with absolute dismal management and trades led us to this current state. I don;t blame anyone for being totally &^%ed off, I also give kudos to those who are optimistic. I am just flabbergasted at how a President who was an all around player, goal scorer, knock your lights out take the body with that Irish temper let a guy like Dubas assemble a team as fragile as this.

 

[rumman]

As Mathews is at home in Arizona relaxing not caring what the fans think.
We have to endure a Go Habs Go billboard on display in Toronto .
We are the butt of there jokes again and again .

yup, that equates to your arch rival taking a dump on your favorite rug...............

 

[rumman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The majority of people have never played the game and don't seem to understand there are 30+ teams trying to accomplish what we want to as well.

The Impatient Fan is back.

Knee jerk reactions result in more problems and are not the answer. Stick to the Shanaplan and ignore the rest of the bullpoop.

the year 1967 says hi....................

 

[rumman]

I like Matthews and all but If you think they 'care' after the David Ayres debacle idk what to say

easily the most embarrassing moment I've witnessed in any professional sporting event..............

 

[Dekes For Days]

the year 1967 says hi....................

The year 1967 is irrelevant to our current team. If we panic and try to make knee jerk changes every time we hit a bump in the road, because people can't get over a past that cannot be changed, then it will just prevent a cup for even longer.

 

[Faltorvo]

Boy, you really like drinking their kool-aid.
3 straight seasons of getting knocked out in the first round, and not even qualifying for the playoffs this year (or 4 straight seasons of getting knocked out in the 1st round if you’re a kool-aid drinker). And there is always an excuse for each early exit. Not to mention this was the second year in a row we finished with fewer points. Oh, but wait, we must keep this core together, they’re amazing, they’re young, they love being paid (oops, shouldn’t have said that, should I?).
Sometimes I think this “core group” of ours is only looking out for themselves.
If this team stays intact, with only a few minor tweaks, and has a great season and wins a few rounds in the playoffs, I will be the first to come out and say I might have been wrong (that’s right, MIGHT) because it sure as hell will take more than one season to prove otherwise!
Remember, you kool-aid drinkers are the ones saying things that happen can be a fluke, like a hot goaltender, and all the other crap you keep bringing up about why these things keep happening to our Leafs.

don't forget to add that they got a great coach fired

 

[Faltorvo]

While we didn't have a horrid season for most teams, I think our season by any measure based on preseason expectations was a big disappointment, coach was fired, we failed to make the playoffs. Our big off season trade was a failure, Barrie clearly under performed, Kerfoot clearly under performed, I think the reasons are pretty obvious for both of those skaters. We had to trade a 1st rounder to a conference rival to dump Marleau. None of our prospects made the jump to full time NHLer, (Engvall did but he seems to be a flash in the pan) all though Sandin and Robertson are probably the closest. Lilly didn't take the jump to the NHL, I was hoping he would continue to develop but he looks like he might beheaded for a long AHL career. We look at our holes on our big team and there are no obvious solutions in the prospect pipeline to fix those holes.

I personally feel the Leafs need a substantial reset of their plan, the East feels, to me, equal, on any given night any team, except for a few bottom dwellers could win. Other teams are young and up and coming. Ottawa is on its way, they arguably have a better projected upside, such a deep farm system, with multiple blue chip prospects on the back end and multiple high end talent on the front end. Montreal while not as deep from a talent perspective seem to have a better balance in their lineup. Boston and Tampa are going to be elite teams for years to come. Carolina looks like a solid team, Philly, Washington, Islanders are all as good or better than the Leafs. CBJ has proven they can beat us in a playoff style series. Unless the big 4 can make considerable growth this summer/Fall Toronto has IMO plateaued.

I think Dubas need to make a substantial personnel change, not just swapping a couple of 4th liners. Not a rebuild, a reset.

No, Boston won't be elite for much longer the loss/decline of Chara/Krug will hurt big time ,, Burg 35,,Krejci 34

 

[theTTC]

I am just flabbergasted at how a President who was an all around player, goal scorer, knock your lights out take the body with that Irish temper let a guy like Dubas assemble a team as fragile as this.

I've stared at the sky and scratched my head over this one since Shanahan chose the passivist-fast-waterbug model for Leaf players. Just cannot reconcile the man's thinking. Seriously, we've witnessed the spirit of Casper Milquetoast walk in to replace the original Shanny - it's spooky.

 

[theTTC]

No, Boston won't be elite for much longer the loss/decline of Chara/Krug will hurt big time ,, Burg 35,,Krejci 34

Eh, they've won enough in recent times to comfortably afford a changing of the guard. Think the Big Bad Bruins ownership is tempted to lure Dubas away to be architect of the new squad?

 

[pcruz]

I like Matthews and all but If you think they 'care' after the David Ayres debacle idk what to say

That Carolina game is the marker of how to beat this team.
Pressure their defense and they will make stupid mistakes.
Pressure their forwards and they crumble.
Clog the neutral zone and you grind the team to a halt.

Guess who did just that over a 5 game span ( to varying success)?


Just to add:

Most teams can’t do this. Most teams don’t have the make-up to play CBJ hockey.
Tampa is a great match for Toronto.
Colorado, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Pittsburgh, Washington, hell, nearly all playoff teams left would be fine for us to play.
There would be issues, but they don’t grind you down like CBJ.
Boston is still a brutal match for us, as would Minnesota be.

So it’s not all doom and gloom!

 

[Bluelines]

No, Boston won't be elite for much longer the loss/decline of Chara/Krug will hurt big time ,, Burg 35,,Krejci 34

They will still have their 1st line for many years to come, that is what powers this team. They have 58.5 mil locked up for next year, no reason why that couldn't sign AP , thats a great replacement for Chara.

 

[Faltorvo]

They will still have their 1st line for many years to come, that is what powers this team. They have 58.5 mil locked up for next year, no reason why that couldn't sign AP , thats a great replacement for Chara.

Bergeron turned 35 last month,,,,funny how i keep reading players turn to crap in their mid 30s

well,if/when they ink AP,,then i will change my opinion