News Article: "Matthews denies rift with Babcock, wants to play with Marner more"

kindalaidback

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Nov 24, 2017
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....

our two top-lines:

matthews-nylander
marleau-kadri-marner

how is that not stacked? hyman is the only player who is not as good offensively as the others. that's it.

but i'll quote myself for the second time:

i said it once and will say it again: you guys want your two favorite players playing together, and you are mad that you are not getting it.
 

tmlfan98

No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Aug 13, 2012
2,086
1,007
Hockey's Mecca
I agree with Babcock that Matthews and Marner split up equals more winning...

Unless we sign Tavares:

Grundstrom-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Tavares-Leivo
Hyman-Kadri-Brown
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen

I don't know about you guys but to me this looks like an unstoppable offence.

This forward group is a possibility for only next year, and operates under the assumption that management gets Nylander on a cheaper bridge deal so we have cap room for both Tavares and Nylander.

It also operates under the unfortunate assumption that Nylander gets traded the next offseason (hopefully in a deal similar to Drouin-Sergachev). But regardless it's not like we would be ending the big 3. We would just be replacing Nylander with Tavares as the 3rd guy.
 

Mikeyg

Registered User
Dec 26, 2011
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Such backwards logic around here.

The reason we can put Marner and Matthews together is because of our offensive depth. The reason Boston can stack their top line is also because of their offensive depth.

How about Winnipeg too??? Their top-2 lines are stacked as well. Only around here does having a deep forward group mean you need to mix in grinders with skilled players. Par the course for defending an utter moron of a coach I guess.

That’s right, too many egocock ass kissers around here. The guy is a clown, he gets out coached a lot, and his lineups intentionally impede the teams potential. Open your damn eyes, the best teams in the league play their stars together and slam them down their opponents throat. Nobody that is a real contender plays this “balanced” shit we have here. If we dont win some rounds next season, egocock is getting fired. Enough is enough.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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That’s right, too many egocock ass kissers around here. The guy is a clown, he gets out coached a lot, and his lineups intentionally impede the teams potential. Open your damn eyes, the best teams in the league play their stars together and slam them down their opponents throat. Nobody that is a real contender plays this “balanced” **** we have here. If we dont win some rounds next season, egocock is getting fired. Enough is enough.

I see the Pittsburgh example get brought up a lot and I just laugh.

We'd all love to have Crosby and Malkin who can produce elite numbers with 2nd/3rd liners, but unfortunately we don't. Winnipeg and Boston are far more reasonable and logical comparisons and there's no way in hell they're mixing grinders with their stars. I don't think either of those teams would keep a clown like Komarov around all season long either.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,623
24,940
....

our two top-lines:

matthews-nylander
marleau-kadri-marner

how is that not stacked? hyman is the only player who is not as good offensively as the others. that's it.

but i'll quote myself for the second time:
This is just f***ing great.

It took Babcock over half a season to figure out that Komarov has no business being beside any skilled players (remember, like us "haters" were losing our minds over?) and that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Marner could help get our 30-goal 2nd line center producing again as opposed to Komarov killing every offensive play?

You guys just want to have your cake and eat it too eh? Apparently we have no business criticizing Babcock on moronic decisions when he's keeping Komarov in the top 9 and killing offense on his line, and yet at the same time it's Babcock's genius coaching for sticking Marner with Kadri and getting him going again despite us "haters" screaming for that move the whole time.
 
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kindalaidback

숨 참고 LOVE DIVE
Nov 24, 2017
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This is just ****ing great.

It took Babcock over half a season to figure out that Komarov has no business being beside any skilled players (remember, like us "haters" were losing our minds over?) and that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Marner could help get our 30-goal 2nd line center producing again as opposed to Komarov killing every offensive play?

You guys just want to have your cake and eat it too eh? Apparently we have no business criticizing Babcock on moronic decisions when he's keeping Komarov in the top 9 and killing offense on his line, and yet at the same time it's Babcock's genius coaching for sticking Marner with Kadri and getting him going again despite us "haters" screaming for that move the whole time.
dude, i've never said that komarov should play on the kadri line. not once. and i've never defended babcock for keeping him on that line. i agree that he should've been demoted to the fourth line way earlier, and marner should've played on that line from day 1.

but, kadri and komarov worked just fine at the veeery beginning of the season, and unfortunately, komarov fell off a cliff rather quickly, and i think babcock hoped it would just be a temporary thing of leo not playing well. he was wrong.

but none of you can complain about the two top lines since january. definitely not. i mean, if you don't have any opinion on hyman. that's a topic for another day.
 

Legendary

Registered User
Sep 1, 2016
1,756
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“No I’m not going to do it that way, I’m the coach not the fans and I want to win”

Still loses in the first round. Babcock logic everyone.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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dude, i've never said that komarov should play on the kadri line. not once. and i've never defended babcock for keeping him on that line. i agree that he should've been demoted to the fourth line way earlier, and marner should've played on that line from day 1.

but, kadri and komarov worked just fine at the veeery beginning of the season, and unfortunately, komarov fell off a cliff rather quickly, and i think babcock hoped it would just be a temporary thing of leo not playing well. he was wrong.

but none of you can complain about the two top lines since january. definitely not. i mean, if you don't have any opinion on hyman. that's a topic for another day.
Fair enough, I shouldn't have quoted you specifically I guess.

My post is directed at the defend Babcock at all costs crew.
 

Mikeyg

Registered User
Dec 26, 2011
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They are not a one-line team, they are deep...they came out to play since puck drop and we didn't.
Lmao this guy, let go of these ripped strands of an argument you have already. Nash didn’t produce at all. 1 goal in 7 games is nothing. They slammed their best players together and ripped apart bozo 51. Wake up, we lost to their first line/top end skill, not rick f***ing nash.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
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Fair enough, I shouldn't have quoted you specifically I guess.

My post is directed at the defend Babcock at all costs crew.
Is that an imaginary crew? Because those people don't exist. Even if you look at your own example, that Komarov shouldn't be anywhere near the PP is a unanimous position. Not having Martin in the lineup was very close to unanimous as well. And the vast majority agrees that Babcock has been overly loyal and slow to make changes.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Is that an imaginary crew? Because those people don't exist. Even if you look at your own example, that Komarov shouldn't be anywhere near the PP is a unanimous position. Not having Martin in the lineup was very close to unanimous as well. And the vast majority agrees that Babcock has been overly loyal and slow to make changes.
Yes, they most definitely do. And I'd love to point them out if I wouldn't get more infractions. A lot of them like to pretend they're not defend Babcock at all costs type people yet they defend Babcock at all costs.
 

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
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Lmao this guy, let go of these ripped strands of an argument you have already. Nash didn’t produce at all. 1 goal in 7 games is nothing. They slammed their best players together and ripped apart bozo 51. Wake up, we lost to their first line/top end skill, not rick ****ing nash.

Why don't you calm the heck down? Keep thinking Boston only has one line, LOL....they have a dominant 1st line, but they don't just have one line. They weren't the best team in hockey since mid-Nov because they only have one line. Game 7 is the perfect example of their depth, they got scoring from 3 different lines.
 
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Mikeyg

Registered User
Dec 26, 2011
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Why don't you calm the heck down? Keep thinking Boston only has one line, LOL....they have a dominant 1st line, but they don't just have one line. They weren't the best team in hockey since mid-Nov because they only have one line. Game 7 is the perfect example of their depth, they got scoring from 3 different lines.
You just aren’t getting it huh. Remember when tampa was unbeatable in the first half of the season and stamkos/Kucherov each had 20 goals a mere few weeks into the season? It has nothing to do with depth, its top line players being put in situations where they can succed (ie playing with other top wnd players). We didn’t lose to Boston’s depth, throughout the entire series those depth guys didn’t score meaningfully at all, case and point nash and nash. We got out coached and we lost because our top end didn’t carry due to bad line decisions. Bergeron isn’t a superstar, hes elite forsure, but not superstar level. He was surrounded by A+ talent and that line scored double digit points multiple nights. Then our superstar player plays with hyman and brown while matching up against that elite line from Boston. If you don’t understand how that has literally nothing to do with depth, then idk what to say. The lineup at the top end never gave us a chance to get Matthews going due to this false illusion of depth. Boston supported their star players, we isolated ours.
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
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You just aren’t getting it huh. Remember when tampa was unbeatable in the first half of the season and stamkos/Kucherov each had 20 goals a mere few weeks into the season? It has nothing to do with depth, its top line players being put in situations where they can succed (ie playing with other top wnd players). We didn’t lose to Boston’s depth, throughout the entire series those depth guys didn’t score meaningfully at all, case and point nash and nash. We got out coached and we lost because our top end didn’t carry due to bad line decisions. Bergeron isn’t a superstar, hes elite forsure, but not superstar level. He was surrounded by A+ talent and that line scored double digit points multiple nights. Then our superstar player plays with hyman and brown while matching up against that elite line from Boston. If you don’t understand how that has literally nothing to do with depth, then idk what to say. The lineup at the top end never gave us a chance to get Matthews going due to this false illusion of depth. Boston supported their star players, we isolated ours.

I mean Hyman was one of the better Leaf forwards for the duration of the series, while Nylander was fairly ineffective.

But go on.
 

hoglund

Registered User
Dec 8, 2013
5,810
1,289
Canada
I hope this isn't Babcocks timeline as Leafs coach:

Misses Playoffs
Lost in Round 1
Lost in Round 1
Lost in Round 1
Lost in Round 1
Fired
If the playoff format stays the same, this could be the future. There's no reason two teams with 100 points should play each other in the 1st round.
 

DopeyFish

Mitchy McDangles
Nov 17, 2009
6,645
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I mean Hyman was one of the better Leaf forwards for the duration of the series, while Nylander was fairly ineffective.

But go on.

So apparently all one needs to do to be "better" is score a goal off the rush, hit a couple bruins and get in their face and be completely useless on 5v5 outside of that.

Makes a whole lot of sense, bert. Hell, if you were paying any attention they weren't really dedicating forward defense to Hyman, they were all on Nylander and Matthews. As long as Matthews had no room he can't get a good shot. Dedicate to Nylander when he has the puck to ensure seams are closed... and don't bother doing much with Hyman because he'll just give you the puck anyways.

I take Nylander over Hyman 100 times out of 100.

Pretty much everything he did after that one lone rush at evens was help the Bruins. Let's fire up the bruins by engaging them. Let's screw up plays nearly every time. Nothings angers me more than the consistent blind praise of a poor hockey player and the ridiculous mental gymnastics used to arrive at such an asinine conclusion.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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So apparently all one needs to do to be "better" is score a goal off the rush, hit a couple bruins and get in their face and be completely useless on 5v5 outside of that.

Makes a whole lot of sense, bert. Hell, if you were paying any attention they weren't really dedicating forward defense to Hyman, they were all on Nylander and Matthews. As long as Matthews had no room he can't get a good shot. Dedicate to Nylander when he has the puck to ensure seams are closed... and don't bother doing much with Hyman because he'll just give you the puck anyways.

I take Nylander over Hyman 100 times out of 100.

Pretty much everything he did after that one lone rush at evens was help the Bruins. Let's fire up the bruins by engaging them. Let's screw up plays nearly every time. Nothings angers me more than the consistent blind praise of a poor hockey player and the ridiculous mental gymnastics used to arrive at such an asinine conclusion.
Hey I'll give Hyman full credit, he capitalized for sure. He earned his praise vs Boston. But you are correct in saying that he had far more room out there than Matthews to make plays due to Boston's defense keying on Matthews instead of him.

Now gluing him to superstars the entire season? That's ridiculous.

"
Nothings angers me more than the consistent blind praise of a poor hockey player and the ridiculous mental gymnastics used to arrive at such an asinine conclusion."

This is all done in the name of defending Babcock. They just can't acknowledge the possibility that maybe he's not a good coach after all and the game has indeed passed him by like it has several other great coaches of the past. It's not due to lack of knowledge, it's due to stubbornness. Historically he's been an extremely stubborn coach who wants things done his way. I just don't think he can come to terms with the fact that his way of doing things isn't nearly as effective with how the game is played today.
 

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
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So apparently all one needs to do to be "better" is score a goal off the rush, hit a couple bruins and get in their face and be completely useless on 5v5 outside of that.

Makes a whole lot of sense, bert. Hell, if you were paying any attention they weren't really dedicating forward defense to Hyman, they were all on Nylander and Matthews. As long as Matthews had no room he can't get a good shot. Dedicate to Nylander when he has the puck to ensure seams are closed... and don't bother doing much with Hyman because he'll just give you the puck anyways.

I take Nylander over Hyman 100 times out of 100.

Pretty much everything he did after that one lone rush at evens was help the Bruins. Let's fire up the bruins by engaging them. Let's screw up plays nearly every time. Nothings angers me more than the consistent blind praise of a poor hockey player and the ridiculous mental gymnastics used to arrive at such an asinine conclusion.

Hyman was much more effective in the series than Nylander...in the long run, Willy will probably be better, but he's not there yet...the Bruins fans in their board hate Hyman in the series. Matthews and Willy both scored 60 plus points in the regular season, with Matthews missing 20 games...how come they couldn't get it done against the Bruins? It's not on Hyman.
 

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
12,484
8,580
You just aren’t getting it huh. Remember when tampa was unbeatable in the first half of the season and stamkos/Kucherov each had 20 goals a mere few weeks into the season? It has nothing to do with depth, its top line players being put in situations where they can succed (ie playing with other top wnd players). We didn’t lose to Boston’s depth, throughout the entire series those depth guys didn’t score meaningfully at all, case and point nash and nash. We got out coached and we lost because our top end didn’t carry due to bad line decisions. Bergeron isn’t a superstar, hes elite forsure, but not superstar level. He was surrounded by A+ talent and that line scored double digit points multiple nights. Then our superstar player plays with hyman and brown while matching up against that elite line from Boston. If you don’t understand how that has literally nothing to do with depth, then idk what to say. The lineup at the top end never gave us a chance to get Matthews going due to this false illusion of depth. Boston supported their star players, we isolated ours.

Sorry, it wasn't due to bad line decisions...Matthews and Nylander did not bring their A game, nor could they break through against the Bruins...they are not battle tested...inexperience and being 20 and 21 is probably the biggest factor...they are still boys...also, Brown scored the first goal of game 5 playing with Matthews. Pfft...we didn't lose to Boston's depth, but we sure did in game 7 when it counted.
 

Mikeyg

Registered User
Dec 26, 2011
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I mean Hyman was one of the better Leaf forwards for the duration of the series, while Nylander was fairly ineffective.

But go on.
Did I mention hyman one time bert? You guys are like a cult when it comes to questioning babcock. You do realize that the one shift marleau matthews and marner had together ended up in a goal right? Superstars need to play with superstars, especially when they are struggling. It has nothing to do with forward depth, and everything to do with lineup decisions. How in gods green earth is our superstar player who is currently struggling going to have any hope of playing against the other teams top 3 players when he is paired with two third liners? It just doesn’t work, and it showed.
 

Mikeyg

Registered User
Dec 26, 2011
8,884
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Sorry, it wasn't due to bad line decisions...Matthews and Nylander did not bring their A game, nor could they break through against the Bruins...they are not battle tested...inexperience and being 20 and 21 is probably the biggest factor...they are still boys...also, Brown scored the first goal of game 5 playing with Matthews. Pfft...we didn't lose to Boston's depth, but we sure did in game 7 when it counted.
Lmao so rookie matthews scores 4 goals against a more stacked opponent in 6 games last year, but his inexperience only showed after he gained more experience? Lmao likely story. I literally laughed out loud.
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
55,395
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Did I mention hyman one time bert? You guys are like a cult when it comes to questioning babcock. You do realize that the one shift marleau matthews and marner had together ended up in a goal right? Superstars need to play with superstars, especially when they are struggling. It has nothing to do with forward depth, and everything to do with lineup decisions. How in gods green earth is our superstar player who is currently struggling going to have any hope of playing against the other teams top 3 players when he is paired with two third liners? It just doesn’t work, and it showed.

Did I mention Babcock at all?

And you're implying Nylander is a third liner now?
 

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