Prospect Info: Matthew Tkachuk or PL Dubois

[Josepho]

I'm not as well versed in the Prospects as many on this board but... here is my take.

Tkachuk is a solely a winger, and the Canucks have a winger in his mold already in Virtanen.

Dubois, has a quite a high offensive ceiling and can play center and wing.

IMO, if both are available at #5, the Canucks should take Dubois.

If I'm wrong I'd love to see proof that I am.

They're powerforwards, but they're very different in style of play. Tkachuk is a slower, playmaking, cycling kinda guy whereas Virtanen is a fast North-South kinda guy. Both are going to be good players but one doesn't make the other redundant.

 

[lawrence]

Tkachuk and Virtanen will be outstanding physical players that most top 6 players don't have, which is grit and physical play. Craig Button listed Tkachuk as the hardest working player in the draft.

9 out of 10 scouts survey by Bob Mckenzie have him ahead of Dubois?

meanwhile virtually every scouting list out there, have Tkachuk also have dubois.

that's more then enough to convince me to take Tkachuk. not to mention how many ontario based wanna be hockey scouts are claiming he's going to be a bust??? I want him even more now.

Tkachuk is our man, and if Edmonton selects Dubois, i'm gonna laugh at them.

I think it's a huge advantage to have guys like Virtanen and tkachuk in your top 6. the stereo typical top 6 player is usually skilled, not so gritty, not so physical, guys like Tkachuk and Virtanen gives us the best of both worlds.

Sure they might not light it up offensively, but I think Benning is trying to build a team that is ruthless to play against the in playoffs.

 

[Verviticus]

Not saying you're wrong, but honestly how much is point totals inflated because of playing with Marner?

zero people can give you the exact answer to this quesiton

 

[Bobs your uncle]

I'm no expert on either player but my sense is Dubois drives the play while Tkachuk is a complimentary player, I'm sure there are others here more knowledgeable that can correct me if my impressions are incorrect.

 

[iFan]

Virtanen's not very good though ...

Were you one of the ones saying the same thing about Horvat not to long ago? Virtanen is way too young to talk like this.

 

[ginner classic]

I'm no expert on either player but my sense is Dubois drives the play while Tkachuk is a complimentary player, I'm sure there are others here more knowledgeable that can correct me if my impressions are incorrect.

I think I've heard that before somewhere...

 

[Zaddy91]

Were you one of the ones saying the same thing about Horvat not to long ago? Virtanen is way too young to talk like this.

horvat is a 3rd line center ceiling


no wait 2nd line

no wait Bergeron lite

 

[JA]

Virtanen's not very good though ...

I would give Virtanen another season to assess his upside. He ended this year on a fairly strong note. There was some progression from September to April, and we can't forget that he is a pretty good shooter.

He almost scored the OT winner in that final game against the Oilers, going end to end and beating Connor McDavid. That was his final shift of the season. If he picks up where he left off and continues to improve, we could have a lot to look forward to with regards to Jake next season and the year after.

35:04:

 

[JA]

The Oilers now have Caggiula, so they probably won't use the 4th overall pick to select a forward. They will most likely either trade it or select a defenseman. Perhaps we can pry the 4th overall pick from them so that we can determine our own fate with regards to Tkachuk and Dubois. We could also make a pitch for the 2nd overall pick.

33rd + Tanev for 4th?

4th + 5th for 2nd?

That's 5th, 33rd, and Tanev for the 2nd overall pick.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Sekeres claimed today were trading back for a D if we dont get PLD. No tkachuk he claimed.

I would love to doubt sekeres especially given what benning just said a few days ago but after he was so on top of the hamhuis trade deadline day (insisting dallas and chicago fell through and he was not going to be moved) i have to consider he has a solid source.

I want to bring this post up again because it seems important. On the radio days ago, Benning all but confirmed that he sees PLD and Tkachuk in a class of their own, and that there is no #1 Dman (in his perception) in this draft. That the safe assumption is that one of these two would be selected.

Now, we get this claim from Sekeres. It's PLD or a trade down...? It 'half' contradicts what Benning said. Why would they trade down to take a lesser prospect (a Dman), if the a prospect they deemed to be in a higher class is still available?

I've listened to hour 1, 3 and 4 on TSN1040. No mention of this (unless I missed it). I would like to hear what Sekeres had to say on it.

 

[Josepho]

The Oilers now have Caggiula, so they probably won't use the 4th overall pick to select a forward. They will most likely either trade it or select a defenseman. Perhaps we can pry the 4th overall pick from them so that we can determine our own fate with regards to Tkachuk and Dubois. We could also make a pitch for the 2nd overall pick.

33rd + Tanev for 4th?

4th + 5th for 2nd?

That's 5th, 33rd, and Tanev for the 2nd overall pick.

I love Caggiula, but he isn't impactful enough to say "Yup, Edmonton isn't taking a winger". Hell, this could also mean that Hall is expendable, hard to tell.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Why do people want to trade Tanev? We have him for 4 more years at a good price. He's 26 years old. I don't get it.

 

[Index]

Why do people want to trade Tanev? We have him for 4 more years at a good price. He's 26 years old. I don't get it.

He's young, but by the time we will compete, he will be old, why not trade him for younger players and picks now

 

[Bad News Benning]

He's young, but by the time we will compete, he will be old, why not trade him for younger players and picks now

I wouldn't trade Tanev right now. Maybe in a few years but there is really no rush in moving him. You can't just have young guys like Hutton, Tryamkin, etc pushed into roles they can't handle.

The moment you deal Tanev you join the other teams looking for a Tanev. Let's try and develop some defenseman before thinking about moving the few good ones we have.

 

[JA]

Why do people want to trade Tanev? We have him for 4 more years at a good price. He's 26 years old. I don't get it.

We also can't trade Edler. I would trade Edler first if that was an option. While I like Tanev, a price must be paid to acquire a potential franchise player. Laine is a player that I would give up Tanev for.

 

[Nucker101]

We also can't trade Edler. I would trade Edler first if that was an option. While I like Tanev, a price must be paid to acquire a potential franchise player. Laine is a player that I would give up Tanev for.

I really think we need to give up the Laine dream here. Winnipeg would need something ridiculous to move that pick, likely involving our top assets. Leaving us with Laine and little support for him.

 

[Trelane]

Not liking that Sekeras rumor much. Would be a mistake to pass on an elite producing prospect just because he's a pure winger to move down for a D. Horvat is the only young guy I'm reasonably confident will be a top 6. Others are still a toss up though odds say there may be one or two, which isn't nearly enough assuming it's called TOP SIX for a reason.

We're not likely to be in this draft position again. Top 10 sure, but a lot of stars aligned for this year's tank which I don't expect to happen again and expansion won't help. The big time scorers always go early and we all know where in the draft all our D came from. You can get a Juolevi in the middle of round one pretty much every bloody year. I like Dubois a wee bit more too, but not enough to say he's a better bet to be a front line centre than the other guy a top winger.

Still, it's almost 50/50 that Tkachuk goes at 4 to whomever so this may be for not but JB and the gang really need to figure out where the scoring is gone come from post Sedins.


Oh, let's ease up on showing Tanev the door. No one is trading the 3rd overall for him no matter the extras and we need him badly.

 

[Bad News Benning]

yeah we need to live in reality. There is no scenario where Laine is a canuck. He could probably kill somebody and still go 2nd overall.

I'll be happy with a good draft where we get a couple solid pieces that can help us in a few years. There will be no instant gratification even though we would all love the idea of Laine in a canuck uniform.

 

[JA]

I really think we need to give up the Laine dream here. Winnipeg would need something ridiculous to move that pick, likely involving our top assets. Leaving us with Laine and little support for him.

It's worth a shot. If it doesn't happen, that's too bad. Winnipeg was only supposed to draft 6th, so to claim both the 4th and 5th picks or something of equivalent value would be just as good for them as having 2nd overall.

The fact that Kevin Cheveldayoff didn't know how to pronounce "Laine" keeps me optimistic.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/cheveldayoff-it-s-a-big-building-block-moving-forward~860181

1:32:

"I watched Puljujärvi play at the World Under-18s the other day in Grand Forks, and I'll be heading over to the World Championships as well to get a chance to see, you know, Auston, and . . . L-Lyanny . . . play as well."

 

[Bad News Benning]

Not liking that Sekeras rumor much. Would be a mistake to pass on an elite producing prospect just because he's a pure winger to move down for a D. Horvat is the only young guy I'm reasonably confident will be a top 6. Others are still a toss up though odds say there may be one or two, which isn't nearly enough assuming it's called TOP SIX for a reason.

We're not likely to be in this draft position again. Top 10 sure, but a lot of stars aligned for this year's tank which I don't expect to happen again and expansion won't help. The big time scorers always go early and we all know where in the draft all our D came from. You can get a Juolevi in the middle of round one pretty much every bloody year. I like Dubois a wee bit more too, but not enough to say he's a better bet to be a front line centre than the other guy a top winger.

Still, it's almost 50/50 that Tkachuk goes at 4 to whomever so this may be for not but JB and the gang really need to figure out where the scoring is gone come from post Sedins.

I wouldn't put much stock in the Sekeres rumour. Guy throws a lot of **** against the wall and he's been obsessed with the canucks taking a defenseman with their pick going back to even last years draft. Can you imagine had we taken a defenseman over Boeser like Sekeres was pushing for? I fully expect Sekeres to bring up the fact the canucks haven't taken a defenseman with a 1st since Bourdon every chance he gets.

 

[thefeebster]

The Oilers now have Caggiula, so they probably won't use the 4th overall pick to select a forward. They will most likely either trade it or select a defenseman.

I don't think Caggiula will have or should have that much of an impact on their drafting strategy. The player they get at #4 will be on another level prospect/talent-wise. I sort of see Caggiula on the Matt Read level of college FAs; a nice depth add but not really a top tier player. He is more of a "now" option for them.

 

[CanaFan]

I wouldn't put much stock in the Sekeres rumour. Guy throws a lot of **** against the wall and he's been obsessed with the canucks taking a defenseman with their pick going back to even last years draft. Can you imagine had we taken a defenseman over Boeser like Sekeres was pushing for? I fully expect Sekeres to bring up the fact the canucks haven't taken a defenseman with a 1st since Bourdon every chance he gets.

Agree. The guy seems to have a very limited understanding of our defensive pipeline or how common it is to find good defensive prospects - outside of a stud #1D - outside of the top 10. I mean just look at our current top 4 defensemen:

Tanev - college UFA
Hutton - 5th round
Edler - 3rd round
Hamhuis - UFA

Even our best D prospects like Tryamkin and Stetcher required no more than a 3rd and a contract slot to get.

Use high picks on forwards because scoring is about the hardest thing to find and is much less frequently acquired through late picks and UFAs. Juolevi may become a fine NHL defenseman but there are other ways to get D like that whereas we are almost certainly not going to find first line scorers so easily.

 

[ATypicalCanadian]

yeah we need to live in reality. There is no scenario where Laine is a canuck. He could probably kill somebody and still go 2nd overall.

I'll be happy with a good draft where we get a couple solid pieces that can help us in a few years. There will be no instant gratification even though we would all love the idea of Laine in a canuck uniform.

He'd have to shuffle down the stadium stairs in hand and leg cuffs and his security detail would take Bettmans spot in the group photo..

Also how the hell is he getting his jersey on with handcuffs.

 

[JA]

Haha, so true. That whole first round was garbage. Craig Wolanin 3, Sandlak 4, Dana "can't skate" Murzyn 5, Jose "roller hockey" Charbaneau at 12?

Hell even the 1st OA pick that year (Clark) was only a marginal "star" and the 2nd pick (Simpson) has had a better broadcast career than hockey career.

Not much worry of a repeat this year, though ironic that TO will have picked first in both drafts.

Scouting has improved so much in the past 20/30 years. I could only imagine some of the great threads if HF existed back in the 80's....Sandlak, Herter, Woodley.

That's an understatement.

Check out this fine gem.

 

[Bad News Benning]

That's an understatement.

Check out this fine gem.

"he's a highly explosive defenseman who can skate like the wind"

Every memory I have of Murzyn involves him trying to skate with a piano attached to his ass.