Matt Murray's Glove Hand

[torniojaws]

For **** sakes...

That's already his third concussion, and second in 8 months. He might have to call it quits soon if that keeps happening.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Re: Glove mechanics.

So much more to it than glove height. Start with posture and technique with foundation. Butterfly style Canadian goalie. Low crouch setup...head is forward and low for puck tracking purposes. Murray is a good tracker. The cost is that his shoulders are forward and down, making him appear smaller in the net, glove is a little lower. It can't be held higher really because that would open up shots under his arm (Pekka Rinne syndrome). Also, he's not a Finn. So he doesn't seem to believe in glove depth.

Look at Rinne, it's not the height that he holds his glove, it's how far in front of him he holds it. He's on to the vertical geometry of it and he wants to catch more pucks cleanly (opposite of Henrik Lundqvist...his glove doesn't catch pucks by design). The con: he lets goals up through his body...which you hate. Murray and most Canadians don't do this. With his head and shoulder setup, he also doesn't look pucks into his glove...he's not American. Americans believe in looking pucks into your glove. Lies in baseball fundamentals.

Look at Jonathan Quick. Tracks pucks into his glove, glove is designed to catch. Will more often sell out to make a glove stop because he trusts it, he's confident he can track a puck into it and he's telescopic in three, maybe four directions to grab those pucks. Murray does not do this.

Another aspect to this tracking/catching stuff are your fingers. If you have your own office, are at home or don't mind looking like an idiot in general, do this exercise as I describe it...

Hold your glove hand up with your four fingers pointed outward. So if you're mutant that raised your right arm, your four fingers are pointed to the right your thumb requires no real positioning, it's just where it is if you had it in a glove. Now, with your fingers remaining outward, mimic catching something that is shot about 2 feet wide of your rib cage on your glove side.

Easy, right? It should be. If not, get a new arm and start again.

Now, return to your starting position and catch something that is shot by your glove-side ear...no, no, no, fingers gotta remain pointed out.

Ok, stop...you can stop...you're not gonna...****** stop, dude...you're not gonna get it easily or cleanly, right?

Fingers out with the elbow tucked is easier to get into a tighter butterfly and not let things get through you. So, a goalie who tracks the puck well, has some size, good technique and can position himself well, can afford to do this...he trusts his positioning and goalies like this don't really need to have a great glove...you can compensate for a lack of great reflexes with great positioning...maybe you point towards Cory Schneider, an American I know, as an example...

Now, if you have your fingers up and you do the same exercise, you can catch that puck shot at your ear...but look at where your elbow is going to end up...yeah, all the way up there...it's not near your pad as you drop...if you're thin as a rail, a la Murray or Ryan Miller, for instance, you run a considerable risk of pucks leaking through you...which is also not great and more likely to be coined a "bad" goal...

I should note that these are just my observations and while I do coach, I am not a goalie coach...nor should I be (I'm sure some people that read that are nodding emphatically right now)...feel free to disregard, I mean, it is goaltending, who cares...

 

[Richard]

Re: Glove mechanics.

So much more to it than glove height. Start with posture and technique with foundation. Butterfly style Canadian goalie. Low crouch setup...head is forward and low for puck tracking purposes. Murray is a good tracker. The cost is that his shoulders are forward and down, making him appear smaller in the net, glove is a little lower. It can't be held higher really because that would open up shots under his arm (Pekka Rinne syndrome). Also, he's not a Finn. So he doesn't seem to believe in glove depth.

Look at Rinne, it's not the height that he holds his glove, it's how far in front of him he holds it. He's on to the vertical geometry of it and he wants to catch more pucks cleanly (opposite of Henrik Lundqvist...his glove doesn't catch pucks by design). The con: he lets goals up through his body...which you hate. Murray and most Canadians don't do this. With his head and shoulder setup, he also doesn't look pucks into his glove...he's not American. Americans believe in looking pucks into your glove. Lies in baseball fundamentals.

Look at Jonathan Quick. Tracks pucks into his glove, glove is designed to catch. Will more often sell out to make a glove stop because he trusts it, he's confident he can track a puck into it and he's telescopic in three, maybe four directions to grab those pucks. Murray does not do this.

Another aspect to this tracking/catching stuff are your fingers. If you have your own office, are at home or don't mind looking like an idiot in general, do this exercise as I describe it...

Hold your glove hand up with your four fingers pointed outward. So if you're mutant that raised your right arm, your four fingers are pointed to the right your thumb requires no real positioning, it's just where it is if you had it in a glove. Now, with your fingers remaining outward, mimic catching something that is shot about 2 feet wide of your rib cage on your glove side.

Easy, right? It should be. If not, get a new arm and start again.

Now, return to your starting position and catch something that is shot by your glove-side ear...no, no, no, fingers gotta remain pointed out.

Ok, stop...you can stop...you're not gonna...****** stop, dude...you're not gonna get it easily or cleanly, right?

Fingers out with the elbow tucked is easier to get into a tighter butterfly and not let things get through you. So, a goalie who tracks the puck well, has some size, good technique and can position himself well, can afford to do this...he trusts his positioning and goalies like this don't really need to have a great glove...you can compensate for a lack of great reflexes with great positioning...maybe you point towards Cory Schneider, an American I know, as an example...

Now, if you have your fingers up and you do the same exercise, you can catch that puck shot at your ear...but look at where your elbow is going to end up...yeah, all the way up there...it's not near your pad as you drop...if you're thin as a rail, a la Murray or Ryan Miller, for instance, you run a considerable risk of pucks leaking through you...which is also not great and more likely to be coined a "bad" goal...

I should note that these are just my observations and while I do coach, I am not a goalie coach...nor should I be (I'm sure some people that read that are nodding emphatically right now)...feel free to disregard, I mean, it is goaltending, who cares...

Exactly right Mike.

My observation is that Murray bends his wrist inward even moreso than Henrik. Try it at home, lundqvist has his hand and wrist just barely crossing the thigh so to speak. Very minor claw like motion.


Murray has his wrist bent even more which slows the arm. As you know you shrug pucks with the elbow up motion. Murray is gonna be NHL late on those pucks his whole career.

I'm not expecting him to be like Quick and compensate for a rather bland glove hand technique with having the ability to turn his glove almost over at NHL speed to make saves. What I've notice is that his elbow is slow and an NHL shooter has a good chance at putting it in

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Didn't they make a change in goalie coaches specifically for Murray? He seemed to do better under the old coach.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Didn't they make a change in goalie coaches specifically for Murray? He seemed to do better under the old coach.

Yes and no. They promoted the AHL goalie coach because he had such a good relationship with Murray (and I guess Jarry and DeSmith, too) and let go the goalie coach who had worked with Fleury.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'm way more concerned with his durability. I'm also way more concerned with the fact that he's no longer playing like he was; cool, calm and collected in net, absorbing all pucks without allowing rebounds, strong on his angles, tight to posts. All of that's a mess right now. His glove is what it is. /shrug It's the multitude of other stuff that's worrisome.

 

[DRL]

Who is expected to play this Saturday?

 

[DegenX]

Who is expected to play this Saturday?

We won't know for sure until tomorrow. Honestly, it could go either way at this point.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Jesse Marshall has a good but depressing article in the Athletic about Murray's goaltending.

 

[vikingGoalie]

for those of us not willing to pay. can you summarize? I generally like Jesse's analysis.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

for those of us not willing to pay. can you summarize? I generally like Jesse's analysis.

He cites Murray's GSAA and expected save percentage to show that, even taking the Penguins' style of play and volatile defense into account, Murray's performance is still below league average.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I believe Murray will be just fine.

Malkin/Hornqvist on the other hand looking to go pointless for their third straight game together.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I believe Murray will be just fine.

Malkin/Hornqvist on the other hand looking to go pointless for their third straight game together.

But it's the best line combo EVAH!

They have such a cool line name! Lol -- get it? Like human growth hormone! lol

I know they mostly can't score for shit aside from that one stretch where it looked like someone injected Malkin with magical unicorn blood but their FANCY numbers are just terrific, ya'll. And isn't that what really matters?

Seriously. f*** that line. I love how people are like "Woooo! This forces Geno to shoot more which is just great!"

It forces him to shoot more because he literally has no other option. I can practically feel the frustration rolling off him through the TV.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

But it's the best line combo EVAH!

They have such a cool line name! Lol -- get it? Like human growth hormone! lol

I know they mostly can't score for **** aside from that one stretch where it looked like someone injected Malkin with magical unicorn blood but their FANCY numbers are just terrific, ya'll. And isn't that what really matters?

Seriously. **** that line. I love how people are like "Woooo! This forces Geno to shoot more which is just great!"

It forces him to shoot more because he literally has no other option. I can practically feel the frustration rolling off him through the TV.

Well put! It’s oil and water at this stage, worse than Malkin and Dupuis ever were.

 

[ottawa]

That's already his third concussion, and second in 8 months. He might have to call it quits soon if that keeps happening.

Kind of like Crosby, right?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

At the moment, I find his positioning more of an issue.

He's getting square to shooters, but almost at his own redline in net. Like he almost refuses to come out to challenge shooters and his tracking of the puck gets lost and he's getting beat on shots he should be making saves on routinely.

His glove issue aside, the guy's mechanics all around are all wonky, he is playing like a guy that has absolutely no confidence but is pretending to have that swagger and arrogance to his game that was fantastic in his back to back wins, just nothing performance wise to back it up right now.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kind of like Crosby, right?

Different with goalies.

When you're a player and you have a concussion (first, not all of them are the same, each head injury is unique and different), you can skate and bump players and get back to that comfort in practice. But a goalie, he's going to get bumped, he's going to take shots off his helmet, he's going to whip his neck to the side to see a shot, get out of the way of a high shot, get up, get down in jarring movements, move side to side fast and then back up...

Have you had a concussion?

I have, the thought of the goalie movements almost makes me want to throw up thinking about while coming off of a concussion. Not many goalies look good after coming back from one. GO and look at how many goalies have had a concussion and look at their level of play after they come back.

Go look at the following:

Corey Crawford (missed 300 days with a concussion) - 3.07GAA, .901 SV% since he's been back. Terrible teams can still have goalies with solid numbers, Crawford is an elite goalie, but his numbers since he's been back...yikes. Same for Price.
Chad Johnson
Steve Mason - Last season, has been done since, no one signed him.
Michael Hutchinson - Last season
Mike Condon - last season, looks to be done now.
Andrew Hammond - 2015-16
Carey Price - He has admitted his physical side is fine, mentally he feels off.
Fleury last year was a bit odd.

All of these guys were either elite or serviceable and now, not so much. Some gone, some on the verge of being gone, and some trying to get back to being good again while some are lucky and are fine.

But here's what he had to say about his 3rd one.

That was Fleury’s third concussion in three seasons, totaling 38 games out of the lineup.
“The thing is, we don’t protect ourselves [from collisions], because you’re watching the puck all the time,” Fleury said in September. “You see where it’s at, then you don’t see guys coming from the side. I think the blindside is the worst. You can’t protect or see them.”
All of this has Fleury concerned about his long-term health, a hazard of the position just coming into better focus.
“I do think about it,” Fleury said. “This last one lasted a little longer than the previous ones, so I’m still thinking about it. Every day you wake up, you don’t feel great, you’re dizzy. It’s disturbing.”

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl-concerned-by-rise-in-goalie-concussions-1.1193829


More games DeSmith can steal, the better, maybe the time will help Murray get his game back on track, but to use the "Look at Crosby..." excuse, weaker than the jokes about Murray's glove hand.

 

[LOGiK]

Different with goalies.

When you're a player and you have a concussion (first, not all of them are the same, each head injury is unique and different), you can skate and bump players and get back to that comfort in practice. But a goalie, he's going to get bumped, he's going to take shots off his helmet, he's going to whip his neck to the side to see a shot, get out of the way of a high shot, get up, get down in jarring movements, move side to side fast and then back up...

Have you had a concussion?

I have, the thought of the goalie movements almost makes me want to throw up thinking about while coming off of a concussion. Not many goalies look good after coming back from one. GO and look at how many goalies have had a concussion and look at their level of play after they come back.

I wish there was a way of finding out if you had past concussions. I have two questionable moments, both in childhood, where I really wonder if I didn't knock something loose.

1: I was at a friends pool and hurrying home for C-team football game, and I was wet and ran from the pool to the house and on the porch was patio concrete. I racked my head so good I was dizzy all day.

2: at 12 or 13 I was on a puddle of ice pretending to play hockey and again really got racked.

If there was only a way to know if damage was done. Is there?

 

[Andy99]

I wish there was a way of finding out if you had past concussions. I have two questionable moments, both in childhood, where I really wonder if I didn't knock something loose.

1: I was at a friends pool and hurrying home for C-team football game, and I was wet and ran from the pool to the house and on the porch was patio concrete. I racked my head so good I was dizzy all day.

2: at 12 or 13 I was on a puddle of ice pretending to play hockey and again really got racked.

If there was only a way to know if damage was done. Is there?

Finding yourself commenting on message boards is sure sign of CTE...

 

[LOGiK]

Finding yourself commenting on message boards is sure sign of CTE...

All of the signs are present.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I wish there was a way of finding out if you had past concussions. I have two questionable moments, both in childhood, where I really wonder if I didn't knock something loose.

1: I was at a friends pool and hurrying home for C-team football game, and I was wet and ran from the pool to the house and on the porch was patio concrete. I racked my head so good I was dizzy all day.

2: at 12 or 13 I was on a puddle of ice pretending to play hockey and again really got racked.

If there was only a way to know if damage was done. Is there?

You can get an MRI done. It won’t be able to tell what incidents caused what but will show if there is anything going on there other than just how the brain looks as we get older.

Even if they did find something there isn’t really much that can be done. If you have symptoms of brain injury there are ways to manage them better for sure.

 

[LOGiK]

You can get an MRI done. It won’t be able to tell what incidents caused what but will show if there is anything going on there other than just how the brain looks as we get older.

Even if they did find something there isn’t really much that can be done. If you have symptoms of brain injury there are ways to manage them better for sure.

Huh. I didn't know an MRI could show injury.that is interesting. Yeah I don't want to get into seeing if something is wrong, but I am curious if there was an issue how to approach it. Just a curiosity thing.

So do they do that for the players too as part of protocol?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Huh. I didn't know an MRI could show injury.that is interesting. Yeah I don't want to get into seeing if something is wrong, but I am curious if there was an issue how to approach it. Just a curiosity thing.

So do they do that for the players too as part of protocol?

I doubt every hit gets an MRI but if they have symptoms or don’t pass the tests. I’m sure they have pretty quick access to that stuff. A CT scan can show stuff too but you don’t as well and you don’t want too many of those. Not good for you.

If you think you have any symptoms see your doctor. Feel free to message me too. I deal with it everyday. Everyone is different but there are usually common denominators.

 

[LOGiK]

I doubt every hit gets an MRI but if they have symptoms or don’t pass the tests. I’m sure they have pretty quick access to that stuff. A CT scan can show stuff too but you don’t as well and you don’t want too many of those. Not good for you.

If you think you have any symptoms see your doctor. Feel free to message me too. I deal with it everyday. Everyone is different but there are usually common denominators.

Forgot you have had first hand experience in a big way. Thanks for the open door policy.

 

[Pancakes]

So shouldn't this thread title be changed to "Matt Murray's Everything"? Dude has not had a good year and a half .

I hope he gets it back together and returns to being the goalie he used to but if he doesn't well at least we got two cups out of him. Can't complain even if he's a turd from here on out.