Matt Murray's Glove Hand

[gopens66]

Moderators: If this is not worthy of it's own thread, please merge it wherever.

I'm looking for answers from people who have played the position, or at least have had more actual coaching than myself. I have not played the position, but I have have watched enough hockey from 1980 to now to see how the position has evolved.

Apparently, today's butterfly goalies are taught to keep their glove resting right on top of their outstretched left leg while in the butterfly pre-shot position. As the butterfly is intended to take away the whole bottom of the net, this somewhat makes sense.

Traditionally, goalies kept their glove hand "up". Some goalies pre-shot positioning preferred the glove with their elbow tucked to their side with the glove parallel to the ice, and others with the glove in a 3/4 vertical position.

Murray is not only beaten high-glove a lot, but there are shots (including last night) that his glove hand isn't even close to the puck. Also, how many saves does he make with his glove that bounce off his glove instead of safely trapping it? That also happens A LOT.

My question is: Wouldn't it benefit him to keep his glove, pre-shot, in the 3/4 position when he drops to butterfly? In other words, splitting the difference with his glove between top corner and resting on his leg.

Click to read more...

 

[EightyOne]

Probably.

He plays it lower than some others.

Just accept it.

It's still a tough shot for pros to snipe high. If he gives that up but is solid elsewhere...drink your medicine. (The issue is he isn't that solid elsewhere starting last year...so...It magnifies the glove issue).

 

[Empoleon8771]

My question is: Wouldn't it benefit him to keep his glove, pre-shot, in the 3/4 position when he drops to butterfly? In other words, splitting the difference with his glove between top corner and resting on his leg.

Doing this helps stop high glove shots, but it opens up 2 new holes in under his arm (7 hole) and between his glove and pad (2 hole). It's easier to shoot for the 7 and 2 holes than it is to try and go top corner.

When you're going down into the butterfly, what Murray does is what every goalie coach in hockey tells goalies to do. Guys like Rask are even more extreme examples of this, look at Rask's glove hand here:

 

[Pancakes]

I don't remember his glove being an issue earlier in his career. But maybe shooters weren't explicitly targeting it?

It's a problem. It's a problem like Maf's rebound control and shakiness on wraparounds was a problem. Maf got better in both of those areas as his career progressed. Hopefully MM can as well.

 

[Jacob]

Lundqvist's glove has been a problem his whole career.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Precisely. Keeping the glove lower actually reduces the openings to the net. I don't subscribe to this notion he needs to have it up high, but something needs to be tweaked. It's a very weak spot on Murrs.

Right now, I think more than anything, he's struggling with confidence. Go watch tape from Murray in games 5 (I was there) and 6 against Nashville. Him well out on top of the crease. Limited pointless movement. Aggressive.

Those are things I'm seeing a lot less of and it's telling. It tells me he is not as confident in his abilities....for whatever reason.

 

[PensPlz]

Was never good. I pointed it out during the 2016 playoffs.

 

[Pancakes]

Lundqvist's glove has been a problem his whole career.

True. I feel like Hank doesn't usually get beat clean though. He has that Murray problem where he has trouble making clean glove saves but I feel like he usually at least gets a piece. I don't feel like he gets cleanly beat as much as MM does.

 

[EightyOne]

Lundqvist's glove has tantrums have been a problem his whole career.

Boom.

 

[gopens66]

Mathematically, no matter where he positions his arm pre-shot, the same area of space is being covered. I understand that taking away the low forces shooters to go high, and potentially miss high. It's pretty clear the book is out on Matt and shooters don't really have to pick the corner perfectly to beat him. Instead of putting it in, let's say, that perfect 6" square top corner, shooters seem to be beating him in a much larger area.

 

[EightyOne]

If your glove is high, when you drop to butterfly, a huge hole emerges between your high glove and the top edge of the pads. It's not quite mathematically the same no matter what.

Also, waving my arm around right now, quick motion up seems more natural than a quick motion down.

 

[gopens66]

I also agree his whole game seems off. He doesn't seem to have that swagger anymore. What made him so good was perfect angles/positioning and swallowing every shot. Pretty much the exact opposite of MAF. I know concussions affect everyone differently, but surely he didn't forget what should be muscle memory.

 

[EightyOne]

It's also easier to chase first place in a race than to be the leader.

MAF not being in his way has put a different element of pressure into the mix.

If he messed up in 16 or 17, the team had someone who could help.

If he messes up now, everyone fails. That's a lot of pressure.

 

[Doogle]

Not a popular opinion, but I think he got figured out and has been repeatedly exploited, and he's been incapable of adjusting. Between that and the numerous injuries that he has had in a short period of time, I thought there were plenty of red flags there that indicated we should have sold high on him and went with the proven veteran, but that's not anything anyone wants to hear. I won't be surprised if Jarry eventually supplants him and we move on. Would love to be proven wrong. But I'm not optimistic

 

[K Fleur]

Not a popular opinion, but I think he got figured out and has been repeatedly exploited, and he's been incapable of adjusting. Between that and the numerous injuries that he has had in a short period of time, I thought there were plenty of red flags there that indicated we should have sold high on him and went with the proven veteran, but that's not anything anyone wants to hear. I won't be surprised if Jarry eventually supplants him and we move on. Would love to be proven wrong. But I'm not optimistic

Proven to fail time and time again at the most important time of the year.

A proven clown show.

 

[gopens66]

The decision to keep Murray was absolutely the best decision at that time. It was the best hockey decision and the best business decision. You don't get rid of a goalie who just won you two cups as a rookie over a veteran goalie with limited shelf life and some of the worst playoff failures ever.

 

[Coach Travis]

There's nothing wrong with his glove hand. It's a false narrative.
Holtby gets beaten on a higher % of glove side shots.
Fleury, Lundqvist and Bobrovsky get beating on glove side shots about equally to Murray.
Pierre McGuire said it once on an NBC telecast and then it was just accepted as truth.

The numbers don't back up the narrative.

 

[Lomez]

Not confident at all in Murray. What ever the opposite of swagger is, he's got it. He really hasn't looked good since Nashville (not literally, but you know what I mean).

 

[Lomez]

There's nothing wrong with his glove hand. It's a false narrative.
Holtby gets beaten on a higher % of glove side shots.
Fleury, Lundqvist and Bobrovsky get beating on glove side shots about equally to Murray.
Pierre McGuire said it once on an NBC telecast and then it was just accepted as truth.

The numbers don't back up the narrative.

Do you have the numbers?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lundqvist's glove has been a problem his whole career.

Matt Murray just needs to throw his team under the bus in post game interviews, flip nets, and lose his shit at Crosby to deflect. Murray is such an idiot he hasn't figured this out yet.

But seriously, Muzz's biggest issue the last season and this year has been his composure. He just looks so unsure of himself. He's looking behind himself after some saves, he's not in a good position for shots, he's not sure of himself in net. He needs someone to mentor him, people forget the guy shot to stardom with back 2 back cups as a rookie then hit some serious tragedy last year.

He's still a freaking kid.

 

[Coach Travis]

Do you have the numbers?

Murray's "supposed weak glove hand" was pointed out in the Stanley Cup Final in 2016 vs San Jose by (it was one of Maguire, Keith Jones or Mike Milbury). These are the stats from the following season:

• Braden Holtby: 44.5% of goals scored glove side
• Marc-André Fleury: 35.5%
• Matt Murray: 34.2%
• Pekka Rinne: 32%
• Henrik Lundqvist: 28.5%

 

[Lomez]

Murray's "supposed weak glove hand" was pointed out in the Stanley Cup Final in 2016 vs San Jose by (it was one of Maguire, Keith Jones or Mike Milbury). These are the stats from the following season:

• Braden Holtby: 44.5% of goals scored glove side
• Marc-André Fleury: 35.5%
• Matt Murray: 34.2%
• Pekka Rinne: 32%
• Henrik Lundqvist: 28.5%

Nice, thanks! How about five hole data? Seriously.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Nice, thanks! How about five hole data? Seriously.

It's the preferred method.

Wait, we're talking hockey right or something else?

 

[Sjoelbak]

I feel like his problem is him not being in the zone. As if his puck tracking is off, because he tries too hard. Focus too much on catching the puck, and it’ll bounce out of your glove. Focus the right amount on tracking it, and you’ll catch those as well.

In my opinion, he’s scrambling more than he did in his first two seasons, which can also be attributed to issues with tracking.

With the loss of his father and the lack of a mentor, a psychologist might help?

 

[Coach Travis]

Leave him be. The kid is fine.