News: Matt Murray on LTIR as he is out indefinitely - Leafs cap issue solved?

[Nylanderthal]

Acquiring Murray has totally backfired on the Leafs.

How? They got assets to try him out last year. He’s either league average with pedigree in the post season, or he’s on ltir and inconsequential to the team & its cap.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

How? They got assets to try him out last year. He’s either league average with pedigree in the post season, or he’s on ltir and inconsequential to the team & its cap.

That "try out" cost a roster spot and a $6 million cap hit last year. He also was the most unreliable goalie in the league. He played in 26 games. Reasonable for a backup, but he constantly was unavailable forcing Samsanov to increase his workload including twice during warmups. They once again had to dress a non-NHL backup because their cap situation was so dire. How anyone can argue that was a good signing is beyond me.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

How? They got assets to try him out last year. He’s either league average with pedigree in the post season, or he’s on ltir and inconsequential to the team & its cap.

Pedigree a long while ago.

You don't seem to be aware that he is 1-8 for his last nine playoff games.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Might be a language barrier issue, but I had zero issues understanding what the person you’re quoting had to say.

Good for you...

 

[I am Canadian]

That "try out" cost a roster spot and a $6 million cap hit last year. He also was the most unreliable goalie in the league. He played in 26 games. Reasonable for a backup, but he constantly was unavailable forcing Samsanov to increase his workload including twice during warmups. They once again had to dress a non-NHL backup because their cap situation was so dire. How anyone can argue that was a good signing is beyond me.

Cap was actually 4.6M. Good thing about the trade was now its essentially off the books, and Leafs did get some assets in. Wasn't a great trade, but it's done now so not a big deal.

 

[Nylanderthal]

That "try out" cost a roster spot and a $6 million cap hit last year. He also was the most unreliable goalie in the league. He played in 26 games. Reasonable for a backup, but he constantly was unavailable forcing Samsanov to increase his workload including twice during warmups. They once again had to dress a non-NHL backup because their cap situation was so dire. How anyone can argue that was a good signing is beyond me.

4.67m and when he’s not playing he’s not effecting the cap.
The reasons stated are why he was retained by his previous club and had assets attached to him.
not good, but not that big of a deal.

 

[Legion34]

Ultimatley Toronto got a 3, a 7th and 26 games for no assets back

There are worse things. The opportunity cost sucks. There were other goalies out there. But if woll is a good backup then it’s fine

 

[Seras]

That "try out" cost a roster spot and a $6 million cap hit last year. He also was the most unreliable goalie in the league. He played in 26 games. Reasonable for a backup, but he constantly was unavailable forcing Samsanov to increase his workload including twice during warmups. They once again had to dress a non-NHL backup because their cap situation was so dire. How anyone can argue that was a good signing is beyond me.

Pick one.

At the time the signing didn't look bad, he played a bit last year and got injured now he is on LTIR.

Would they do the trade knowing how it played out? Likely not, but that's now how life works

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Pick one.

At the time the signing didn't look bad, he played a bit last year and got injured now he is on LTIR.

Would they do the trade knowing how it played out? Likely not, but that's now how life works

The correct answer is none of the above and not pick him up. "Pick one" Leafs fans

 

[Seras]

The correct answer is none of the above and not pick him up. "Pick one" Leafs fans

He is the first goalie in the history of the NHL to be the most unreliable goalie in the NHL while also being a reasonable backup, thank you for this insight.

 

[MCR74]

He is the first goalie in the history of the NHL to be the most unreliable goalie in the NHL while also being a reasonable backup, thank you for this insight.

That logic pretty much sums up the 56 pages of this thread. Bravo.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

He is the first goalie in the history of the NHL to be the most unreliable goalie in the NHL while also being a reasonable backup, thank you for this insight.

Stats were reasonable for a backup but unfortunately he was always too injured to be counted on. But sure, great use of $6 million and $4.6 of cap space. Worked out well.

 

[Recipe Unlimited]

That will never happen.

It would be dead simple to have some sort of quasi cap formula for the playoffs that stops teams like Tampa from running a $90m playoff roster because of LTIR.

Why won't it happen.

Just make it so on the last day of the regular season, any player on LTIR is not eligble for the playoffs. If the team expects the player to come back from injury, they can just activate them from LTIR (and put them on regular IR to open up a roster spot). If the team can't afford the cap space after activating the player on LTIR, then sucks for them, they shouldn't have traded for extra players that would put them over the cap.

 

[Voight]

Why won't it happen.

Just make it so on the last day of the regular season, any player on LTIR is not eligble for the playoffs. If the team expects the player to come back from injury, they can just activate them from LTIR (and put them on regular IR to open up a roster spot). If the team can't afford the cap space after activating the player on LTIR, then sucks for them, they shouldn't have traded for extra players that would put them over the cap.

This kind of thinking doesn't work.

Say Player X gets hurt in the middle of February and they ill be out until the beginning of June. Why should the team get punished for finding a replacement?

Imo it was the Leafs getting caught red-handed cheating the system. It's not just that he said he and the Leafs were cheating the system, but the guy was even snowboarding while supposedly injured.

Rick Zamperin: Joffrey Lupul’s allegations open up a can of worms for Leafs, NHL - Hamilton | Globalnews.ca

The Joffrey Lupul allegations could have serious ramifications, and not only for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

www.google.com

I remember he also said things like that he was ready to play, etc. It was like he didn't want to be on LTIR anymore. He played on some bad rosters and I think he wanted to play with the improved roster. The thing ended with him shutting up and failing another physical. I do wonder if that was a case where the league circled the wagons for the good of everyone leagued wide and snuffed the whole thing. All it would take is some kind of threat to Lupul, like taking him to court and bleeding him dry with litigation, and maybe even pinning blame on him for the whole thing.

He likely had a playable injury, so it was a case where if he would get on board and say the right things he could fail a physical just based on what he said

NHL literally investigated this and agreed with the Leafs. Not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[Rec T]

Why won't it happen.

Just make it so on the last day of the regular season, any player on LTIR is not eligble for the playoffs. If the team expects the player to come back from injury, they can just activate them from LTIR (and put them on regular IR to open up a roster spot). If the team can't afford the cap space after activating the player on LTIR, then sucks for them, they shouldn't have traded for extra players that would put them over the cap.

I'd go a little further that that and make it that the player needs to be on the active roster/regular IR for the last 3 (maybe 5) games of the regular season to be eligible to play in the playoffs. They don't necessarily have to dress for those games, but they do have to be available and counting towards the cap. Just one game is fairly easy for a GM to do some short term tap dancing. Three though and they'll have to really rethink their cap shenanigans.

(maintaining the "if you're on LTIR on the last day of the season then you're ineligible for the playoffs" to prevent a LTIR shuffle to get the original player back, team compliant, and a miraculous recovery by the player just put on it once the playoffs start)

 

[HockeyVirus]

I want to say I am surprised this thread is at 56 pages, with the same handful of folks who are in every Leafs thread arguing around and around how a goalie they all said was injury prone isn't actually injured and the Leafs are cheating.. But I would be lying.

People had themselves all hyped up for some made up scenario where the Leafs give up a bunch of assets and when it never happened (and was never going to happen the alternative was buyout with a 600k cap hit), they are upset and want the blood they were promised.

End of the day, I would hope it is a non controversial statement that concussions are not an exact science. Symptoms can come and go. Considering his history of them, all it took was Murray saying he is not good to go.

Now is it possible that Murray could be good to go 6 months into the season? Sure. But he has incentive to not do that by being paid an extra 2M for being on LTIR instead of being bought out.

I also don't really see the great injustice here. If they had said Auston Matthews had surgery and is out until the playoffs and the Leafs go out and spend 11M on the roster and he is practicing and playing for weeks and suits up game 1 perfectly healthy, yeah there is a reason to call that shit out. But they haven't done that despite other teams doing it.

This is a player who we got paid to take because he could not stay healthy, who proceeded to not be able to stay healthy all season long, and is still not healthy and for some reason this is some absurd outcome for folks.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

I want to say I am surprised this thread is at 56 pages, with the same handful of folks who are in every Leafs thread arguing around and around how a goalie they all said was injury prone isn't actually injured and the Leafs are cheating.. But I would be lying.

People had themselves all hyped up for some made up scenario where the Leafs give up a bunch of assets and when it never happened (and was never going to happen the alternative was buyout with a 600k cap hit), they are upset and want the blood they were promised.

End of the day, I would hope it is a non controversial statement that concussions are not an exact science. Symptoms can come and go. Considering his history of them, all it took was Murray saying he is not good to go.

Now is it possible that Murray could be good to go 6 months into the season? Sure. But he has incentive to not do that by being paid an extra 2M for being on LTIR instead of being bought out.

I also don't really see the great injustice here. If they had said Auston Matthews had surgery and is out until the playoffs and the Leafs go out and spend 11M on the roster and he is practicing and playing for weeks and suits up game 1 perfectly healthy, yeah there is a reason to call that shit out. But they haven't done that despite other teams doing it.

This is a player who we got paid to take because he could not stay healthy, who proceeded to not be able to stay healthy all season long, and is still not healthy and for some reason this is some absurd outcome for folks.

Drops mic.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I want to say I am surprised this thread is at 56 pages, with the same handful of folks who are in every Leafs thread arguing around and around how a goalie they all said was injury prone isn't actually injured and the Leafs are cheating.. But I would be lying.

People had themselves all hyped up for some made up scenario where the Leafs give up a bunch of assets and when it never happened (and was never going to happen the alternative was buyout with a 600k cap hit), they are upset and want the blood they were promised.

End of the day, I would hope it is a non controversial statement that concussions are not an exact science. Symptoms can come and go. Considering his history of them, all it took was Murray saying he is not good to go.

Now is it possible that Murray could be good to go 6 months into the season? Sure. But he has incentive to not do that by being paid an extra 2M for being on LTIR instead of being bought out.

I also don't really see the great injustice here. If they had said Auston Matthews had surgery and is out until the playoffs and the Leafs go out and spend 11M on the roster and he is practicing and playing for weeks and suits up game 1 perfectly healthy, yeah there is a reason to call that shit out. But they haven't done that despite other teams doing it.

This is a player who we got paid to take because he could not stay healthy, who proceeded to not be able to stay healthy all season long, and is still not healthy and for some reason this is some absurd outcome for folks.

This ^Well put. In the other Matt Murray thread people were saying 1 st plus , or Knies and 2 2nds; even Nylander was bandied about as ammunition to dump him ( despite very cheap buyout existing , but blinders were on for most ) . Humongous misses/total pipe dreams .

 

[MCR74]

I want to say I am surprised this thread is at 56 pages, with the same handful of folks who are in every Leafs thread arguing around and around how a goalie they all said was injury prone isn't actually injured and the Leafs are cheating.. But I would be lying.

People had themselves all hyped up for some made up scenario where the Leafs give up a bunch of assets and when it never happened (and was never going to happen the alternative was buyout with a 600k cap hit), they are upset and want the blood they were promised.

End of the day, I would hope it is a non controversial statement that concussions are not an exact science. Symptoms can come and go. Considering his history of them, all it took was Murray saying he is not good to go.

Now is it possible that Murray could be good to go 6 months into the season? Sure. But he has incentive to not do that by being paid an extra 2M for being on LTIR instead of being bought out.

I also don't really see the great injustice here. If they had said Auston Matthews had surgery and is out until the playoffs and the Leafs go out and spend 11M on the roster and he is practicing and playing for weeks and suits up game 1 perfectly healthy, yeah there is a reason to call that shit out. But they haven't done that despite other teams doing it.

This is a player who we got paid to take because he could not stay healthy, who proceeded to not be able to stay healthy all season long, and is still not healthy and for some reason this is some absurd outcome for folks.

Good post.

The same losers who are in every Leafs thread wouldn't be saying a damn thing if their team was doing this.

 

[HTFN]

He is the first goalie in the history of the NHL to be the most unreliable goalie in the NHL while also being a reasonable backup, thank you for this insight.

No, seems like you can't read when your eyes go red.

Him being unreliable is about his play. Him playing in 26 games all year is the part that is "reasonable for a backup".

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Hubris.

I mean we clearly pay the bills on this site....smoke em if you got em...

 

[Zur En Arrh]

I want to say I am surprised this thread is at 56 pages, with the same handful of folks who are in every Leafs thread arguing around and around how a goalie they all said was injury prone isn't actually injured and the Leafs are cheating.. But I would be lying.

People had themselves all hyped up for some made up scenario where the Leafs give up a bunch of assets and when it never happened (and was never going to happen the alternative was buyout with a 600k cap hit), they are upset and want the blood they were promised.

End of the day, I would hope it is a non controversial statement that concussions are not an exact science. Symptoms can come and go. Considering his history of them, all it took was Murray saying he is not good to go.

Now is it possible that Murray could be good to go 6 months into the season? Sure. But he has incentive to not do that by being paid an extra 2M for being on LTIR instead of being bought out.

I also don't really see the great injustice here. If they had said Auston Matthews had surgery and is out until the playoffs and the Leafs go out and spend 11M on the roster and he is practicing and playing for weeks and suits up game 1 perfectly healthy, yeah there is a reason to call that shit out. But they haven't done that despite other teams doing it.

This is a player who we got paid to take because he could not stay healthy, who proceeded to not be able to stay healthy all season long, and is still not healthy and for some reason this is some absurd outcome for folks.

Annnnd boom goes the dynamite (dx chop the haters)

 

[Karl Eriksson]

The funny part is that a healthy Murray might actually be better than Samsonov or Woll, who are both pretty mediocre.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

How is this 47 pages

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

The funny part is that a healthy Murray might actually be better than Samsonov or Woll, who are both pretty mediocre.

He is better than neither and both cost significantly less .