Player Discussion Matt Grzelcyk

[NeelyDan]

Matty is known as the king of second breakfast in The Shire

 

[BMC]

I agree with most of this . his inability or lack of willingness to be more involved in the heavier work needed for playoff hockey is a concern. Also the fact that he is not used on either the power play or more importantly the PK . Increases the load on others. I am not bashing his height just the limitations of his game.

This.

The blunt truth is playoff hockey is a much heavier game. Stick positioning & stick checking are fine during the regular season but aren't as effective during the playoffs when players just drive themselves through that stuff. I'd love it if Gryzz had some of Clifton's willingness to play heavy but he doesn't.

 

[whitetape]

I agree with most of this . his inability or lack of willingness to be more involved in the heavier work needed for playoff hockey is a concern. Also the fact that he is not used on either the power play or more importantly the PK . Increases the load on others. I am not bashing his height just the limitations of his game.

Good point about the PK, but his skating and transition game are so good they make up elsewhere for his PK shortcomings of a shorter reach and shot-blocking size. On many teams he would be on the power play, but he's not going to displace McAvoy or Lindholm. I remember back in 2009, when the Bruins lost to Carolina in the playoffs mainly because they lacked a good transition game from the back end. They have fixed that problem in spades with almost all six D.

 

[Bmessy]

I gotta give Grzelcyk his due. His skating, transition and neutral zone presence are excellent. Grzelcyk is an asset to this team, more so when the lineup is fully healthy. He plays 17 mins a night this year (lowest since 2017), 92% of that is 5v5. He plays with McAvoy or Carlo 70% of the time and gets the 2nd most offensive zone starts on team outside of McAvoy. Clearly Montgomery recognizes the player's skills and weaknesses.

A bum shoulder would impact any dman, especially for a guy like Grzelcyk. His playoff 2 years ago wasn't as bad as last year. That 2020-2021 team was pre Lindholm and had Carlo get killed by Wilson. That D lineup was built to fail. Grz and Reilly were playing 20 mins a night. Not ideal.

I'll be concerned again if one of our heavy lifters go down and he has to play a larger role. But I have those same exact concerns for Forbort and Clifton.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Stick positioning & stick checking are fine during the regular season but aren't as effective during the playoffs when players just drive themselves through that stuff.

This just isn’t remotely true whatsoever.

 

[bme44]

Good point about the PK, but his skating and transition game are so good they make up elsewhere for his PK shortcomings of a shorter reach and shot-blocking size. On many teams he would be on the power play, but he's not going to displace McAvoy or Lindholm. I remember back in 2009, when the Bruins lost to Carolina in the playoffs mainly because they lacked a good transition game from the back end. They have fixed that problem in spades with almost all six D.

Agree with you on all points the acquisition of Lindholm has reduced his role on the Bruins. I think he would be an excellent asset to a rebuilding team that was working towards making the playoffs. I just don't feel you can say the same for him on team looking to make a long Stanley Cup run .

 

[PlayMakers]

He seems to be getting more time in the DZone then I remember and I like what I see.

Folks look at his 60% Ozone starts and assume he’s sheltered but he actually has more Dzone starts than people think...

DZ Starts
Gryz 311
Forb 277
Mac 267

 

[Bmessy]

Folks look at his 60% Ozone starts and assume he’s sheltered but he actually has more Dzone starts than people think...

DZ Starts
Gryz 311
Forb 277
Mac 267

Where are you getting that? This is what Natural Stat Trick says

 

[BruinDust]

This.

The blunt truth is playoff hockey is a much heavier game. Stick positioning & stick checking are fine during the regular season but aren't as effective during the playoffs when players just drive themselves through that stuff. I'd love it if Gryzz had some of Clifton's willingness to play heavy but he doesn't.

It's basically all Nick Lidstrom ever used to defend. Not that Gryz is Lidstrom obviously and Lidstrom had a reach advantage, but Lidstrom's defensive game was all stick and positioning, and there are some who think he's the best defensive D-man of all-time (I don't share that sentiment but it's out there).

It's like saying a player's hockey IQ is less effective in the playoffs because the game leans more towards the knuckle-heads just running around mashing guys.

 

[sarge88]

This just isn’t remotely true whatsoever.

Not asking this in order to support the theory that Grzelcyk can’t handle the playoffs.

I’m asking because I personally think it’s true and can’t imagine anyone who knows hockey as well as you would disagree.

The question is this:

Do you not agree that there are times probably several in a regular season game where a player doesn’t hunt a puck, throw a hit or go the net with the same effort and determination he would in a playoff game?

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Not asking this in order to support the theory that Grzelcyk can’t handle the playoffs.

I’m asking because I personally think it’s true and can’t imagine anyone who knows hockey as well as you would disagree.

The question is this:

Do you not agree that there are times probably several in a regular season game where a player doesn’t hunt a puck, throw a hit or go the net with the same effort and determination he would in a playoff game?

Obviously intensity goes up in the playoffs no question. But the biggest change is that it’s good teams going at each other night after night exploiting matchups.

There’s this narrative that suddenly it becomes a different game where it’s all physicality and people mashing each other over and over but that’s not really the case. Even when the Bruins won in 2011 the biggest reason was we possessed the puck better than them. And the goalie obviously.

The thought that what is traditionally most effective in defending - positioning, stick work etc - suddenly gets neutralized in the playoffs is what I was responding to - nothing is further from the truth. Just look at Colorado last year. And hell Hedman is a monster because of his stick work not because he’s Scott Stevens running around destroying people.

 

[LouJersey]

Not asking this in order to support the theory that Grzelcyk can’t handle the playoffs.

I’m asking because I personally think it’s true and can’t imagine anyone who knows hockey as well as you would disagree.

The question is this:

Do you not agree that there are times probably several in a regular season game where a player doesn’t hunt a puck, throw a hit or go the net with the same effort and determination he would in a playoff game?

NHL Stats

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I mean there is def something to this

 

[bme44]

Obviously intensity goes up in the playoffs no question. But the biggest change is that it’s good teams going at each other night after night exploiting matchups.

There’s this narrative that suddenly it becomes a different game where it’s all physicality and people mashing each other over and over but that’s not really the case. Even when the Bruins won in 2011 the biggest reason was we possessed the puck better than them. And the goalie obviously.

The thought that what is traditionally most effective in defending - positioning, stick work etc - suddenly gets neutralized in the playoffs is what I was responding to - nothing is further from the truth. Just look at Colorado last year. And hell Hedman is a monster because of his stick work not because he’s Scott Stevens running around destroying people.

I think one point that is not being addressed is that it is possibly seven games against the same opponent . This allows coaches to focus on and exposing weakness in players on other teams. That may not be exposed in one game but will play a role over seven games.

In playoff hockey every team makes far more adjustments to there game because of there opponent than during the regular season

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

I think one point that is not being addressed is that it is possibly seven games against the same opponent . This allows coaches to focus on and exposing weakness in players on other teams. That may not be exposed in one game but will play a role over seven games.

Yeah that’s what I was referring to in my first paragraph.

I’m not saying physicality doesn’t increase in the playoffs - it does, though typically skewed to the bottom of the lineup. Look at hit stats for Hedman (36 in 23 playoff games last year)/McDonagh/Makar/Toews from last years playoffs.

The extra physicality from the Darren Helms and Jack Johnsons of the world doesn’t obviate the effectiveness of normal good defensive work.

 

[sarge88]

Obviously intensity goes up in the playoffs no question. But the biggest change is that it’s good teams going at each other night after night exploiting matchups.

There’s this narrative that suddenly it becomes a different game where it’s all physicality and people mashing each other over and over but that’s not really the case. Even when the Bruins won in 2011 the biggest reason was we possessed the puck better than them. And the goalie obviously.

The thought that what is traditionally most effective in defending - positioning, stick work etc - suddenly gets neutralized in the playoffs is what I was responding to - nothing is further from the truth. Just look at Colorado last year. And hell Hedman is a monster because of his stick work not because he’s Scott Stevens running around destroying people.

As true as all of that is. I think there is also a clear uptick in physical play.

For a couple of reasons. First the stakes are higher, second familiarity breeds contempt.

As for Grzelcyk, I’m in the middle on this.

I see his value but I also worry about the things people here have mentioned, although probably not as much as a lot of them.

I will say that on this team, with Lindholm in the fold, I think he can be more effective in a role that is less prominent than he needed to take in the past.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

As true as all of that is. I think there is also a clear uptick in physical play.

For a couple of reasons. First the stakes are higher, second familiarity breeds contempt.

As for Grzelcyk, I’m in the middle on this.

I see his value but I also worry about the things people here have mentioned, although probably not as much as a lot of them.

I will say that on this team, with Lindholm in the fold, I think he can be more effective in a role that is less prominent than he needed to take in the past.

I responded a bit to that above. But again, in the Carolina series, the number one thing wrong with the defense was Carolina going at Forbort’s corner every time he was on the ice. He couldn’t get the puck out cleanly. The way to beat Carolina and their late 90s speed forecheck style is to get the puck the hell out of the zone, not to suddenly start checking everyone. Our most sturdy defenseman struggled the most.

Our three mobile D were all hurt in that series - that killed us too.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

This just isn’t remotely true whatsoever.

It is though.

Gryz gets eaten alive in the playoffs where the physicality and cost to make a play is greater. Only once has he had more than 5 points in the playoffs and never hit double digits while also never being a + player and having 2x as many giveaways as he does takeaways.

And on top of that 47 ESGA and only 26 ESGF in 59 games is really not good.

 

[sarge88]

I responded a bit to that above. But again, in the Carolina series, the number one thing wrong with the defense was Carolina going at Forbort’s corner every time he was on the ice. He couldn’t get the puck out cleanly. The way to beat Carolina and their late 90s speed forecheck style is to get the puck the hell out of the zone, not to suddenly start checking everyone. Our most sturdy defenseman struggled the most.

Our three mobile D were all hurt in that series - that killed us too.

Fair enough.

Especially the last sentence.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

I have a 6/33 extension waiting for him

See that is where I don't want to get. Kid has played well, but I don't want to lock him up for big money into his mid to late 30s. For a player who can't play PK, and can't contribute to PP, you always have to construct the roster around him to cover for his limitations

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

It is though.

Gryz gets eaten alive in the playoffs where the physicality and cost to make a play is greater. Only once has he had more than 5 points in the playoffs and never hit double digits while also never being a + player and having 2x as many giveaways as he does takeaways.

And on top of that 47 ESGA and only 26 ESGF in 59 games is really not good.

His xG differential last playoffs was -.8. His actual was -7. The Bruins shot in the 3s with him and their SV% with him was sub 80%. If you think one height challenged defenseman can have that much impact on a teams results…whew.

 

[bme44]

Yeah that’s what I was referring to in my first paragraph.

I’m not saying physicality doesn’t increase in the playoffs - it does, though typically skewed to the bottom of the lineup. Look at hit stats for Hedman (36 in 23 playoff games last year)/McDonagh/Makar/Toews from last years playoffs.

The extra physicality from the Darren Helms and Jack Johnsons of the world doesn’t obviate the effectiveness of normal good defensive work.

Not disagreeing with anything you are saying . What I am saying. Known limitations in any players skill set are more prone to being exposed in the playoffs .

I hope we can all agree Grzelcyk handling of the physical aspect of the game is not his greatest asset. In the same way we can all agree Forbort's foot speed is not his greatest asset.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Not disagreeing with anything you are saying . What I am saying. Known limitations in any players skill set are more prone to being exposed in the playoffs .

I hope we can all agree Grzelcyk handling of the physical aspect of the game is not his greatest asset. In the same way we can all agree Forbort's foot speed is not his greatest asset.

Totally agree, except it’s not Forbort’s speed it’s that he can’t get the puck out of the zone well at all. We just probably disagree about whose limitations Carolina took advantage the most.

Grizz held up more than fine against Washington, Columbus, and the Blues (before a dirty headshot that would have knocked Chris Pronger out happened).

 

[Bmessy]

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

I mean there is def something to this

SHEESH that's a big number. He's leading the league in the worst EV strength goal differential in the playoffs since 2017-18. He's had alot of playoff games, but still not a good look.
He's healthy in a better role this year (playing with McAvoy 48% of the time). But if he needs to play more than unprotected 17 mins a night... houston we have a problem. Last playoffs:

2022= -6 EV strength goal differential. 20% EV strength GF %.
(60% TOI w/ Carlo. 30% w/ McAvoy)

2021 = -2 EV strength goal differential. 44% EV strength GF %.
(84% TOI w/ McAvoy)

2020= -5 EV strength goal differential. 31% EV strength GF %
(36% TOI w/ McAvoy 28% w/ Clifton)

2019= -4 EV strength goal differential. 41% EV strength GF %
(34% TOI w/ Clifton. 21% w/ Carlo, 20% McAvoy)

Big outlier last year. But still he's hurting more than helping come playoff time. He needs McAvoy.
Chychrun train lets goooo

 

[bme44]

Totally agree, except it’s not Forbort’s speed it’s that he can’t get the puck out of the zone well at all. We just probably disagree about whose limitations Carolina took advantage the most.

Grizz held up more than fine against Washington, Columbus, and the Blues (before a dirty headshot that would have knocked Chris Pronger out happened).

Actually my concerns with Gryz go back farther than last years playoffs . Was simply just using Forbort as another D-man that I knew you had concerns with.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Actually my concerns with Gryz go back farther than last years playoffs . Was simply just using Forbort as another D-man that I knew you had concerns with.

I know. You think I’m his agent, I think he stole your girlfriend in high school. Call it a draw.