Player Discussion Matt Dumba

[Wabit]

I do like that we only have 1 "vet" down there as of now. There's going to be plenty of opportunity for the other 6, as long as one of them doesn't make it a habit of being scratched.

They have Hunt, SJ (24 now), Lambos, Masters, Mermis (vet), ROR, and Spacek. Benoit (unsigned) has aged out of the USHL. Pionk (just drafted, unsigned) can play another USHL season, but he'd be one of the oldest players in the league. Faber is also the same age group, and although I have him on the NHL roster I could see him doing a stint in Iowa (cap games, normal rookie learning curve, waivers exempt, roster needs, etc).

I also expect them to pick up another vet d-man for Iowa (leadership, mentor, locker room, face puncher, whatever).

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

They have Hunt, SJ (24 now), Lambos, Masters, Mermis (vet), ROR, and Spacek. Benoit (unsigned) has aged out of the USHL. Pionk (just drafted, unsigned) can play another USHL season, but he'd be one of the oldest players in the league. Faber is also the same age group, and although I have him on the NHL roster I could see him doing a stint in Iowa (cap games, normal rookie learning curve, waivers exempt, roster needs, etc).

I also expect them to pick up another vet d-man for Iowa (leadership, mentor, locker room, face puncher, whatever).

Right, 6 1st/2nd year AHLer's and 1 vet.

 

[Digitalbooya]

What points to Spacek being a quality defender? He had one stand out U20 tournament and the rest of his resume is pretty aversge as far as junior players go.

Him being the best defenseman on his team in the Q. Highest point getter amongst dmen on his team. Extremely high +/-, second among defenders on his team, second among defenders in the QMJHL, and fifth across the entire league. Sixth in goals scored amongst defenders. Sixth in points amongst defenders. It should also be noted that most of the defenders above him have significantly more power play points. He had 20 power play points. Among those above him, four of the five had 30+ power play points and all of them had more games played.

That's before I get to talking about his WJC performance. Offense aside, his team limited Bedard to 1 point in 2 games. Bedard had 22 points in the other 5 games. People cream their pants on here because Brodin shuts down McDavid more often than not. Same idea.

The only thing he needs is better competition. He's ready to move to the next level.

I don't see how Spacek isn't viewed as a quality defenseman.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I don’t see how you can be high on Lambos, and low on ROR. One made the Canadian WJC team, the other didn’t. Point totals in junior were similar. ROR was captain of his junior team. Of the two, ROR was considered to be the better defender in junior. I think Hunt was lightly better than ROR in the AHL, but even there, they were more similar than different. ROR is only 8 months older than Lambos, but already has two years of AHL play under his belt, and has done ok. We’ll see how both do this year. ROR needs to take a step forward and start asserting himself in the AHL , while Lambos just has to adjust to the new league, while playing against men for the first time.

Peart has been playing at a higher level(ncaa) than Spacek(Qhl), and IMO, been excelling. Towards the end of last season I thought that Peart was clearly the best Dman on a vg college team, and that his play rivaled Faber’s. He’s a really good skater, good with the puck, good defensively, good judgement, and to my eye, looked to have grown a bit, so he is now at least a legit 6’, if not more. Like all young players he can get stronger and thicker, but it’s not like he looks weak out there.

I want Faber to be with Brodin because Faber is still an extremely young player, and can use all the help he can get. I mean who else is he going to play with? Middleton? Goligoski? We don’t really have an offense only LD, do we?

I've seen nothing to suggest ROR will be anything but a Greg Pateryn type 3rd pairing guy. I didn't see much for offense. He must have showed that in games I didn't watch. I also did not see this "big, nasty" defender that people say he is.

From what I've seen of Lambos, he has the tools to be a 1st pairing guy. It is more of a question of will he put it together. There are some varying opinions there. I think he can, but will need to move up to the AHL or a different league to improve.

What would Spacek have to do in the Q to be considered on the level of Peart in your opinion? Of the things you wrote, the only thing I can see as a true knock is the league they play in. Not necessarily anything to do with their level of play.

My initial thought was actually Spurgeon or Addison. Our LD have zero offensive skill, so that's why I was intrigued by Lambos. He played with Klingberg last year. If they could find some way to make Faber-Spurgeon, Brodin-Addison work it could be interesting. Maybe they start the year with Middleton-Spurgeon, Hunt-Brodin, Faber-Addison, Goligoski (Merrill traded).

 

[AKL]

Him being the best defenseman on his team in the Q. Highest point getter amongst dmen on his team. Extremely high +/-, second among defenders on his team, second among defenders in the QMJHL, and fifth across the entire league. Sixth in goals scored amongst defenders. Sixth in points amongst defenders. It should also be noted that most of the defenders above him have significantly more power play points. He had 20 power play points. Among those above him, four of the five had 30+ power play points and all of them had more games played.

That's before I get to talking about his WJC performance. Offense aside, his team limited Bedard to 1 point in 2 games. Bedard had 22 points in the other 5 games. People cream their pants on here because Brodin shuts down McDavid more often than not. Same idea.

The only thing he needs is better competition. He's ready to move to the next level.

I don't see how Spacek isn't viewed as a quality defenseman.

I'm not saying he's bad, I just don't see how he's above any of the other defensemen in any meaningful way. I don't see how he's more of a lock to be a quality NHL defenseman based on what he's done so far. Plenty of guys have done similarly impressive things in juniors only to wind up either not making the NHL, or just being another depth journeyman. Again, not saying he's definitely not going to be an NHLer, I just don't see him as a lock any more than any of the other guys in our system.

Compare him to his team, sure, but he was playing on a juggernaut (obviously not solely because of him because of him), and none of the defenders on his team are high profile guys who project favorably to the NHL. I guarantee of majority of people on this website had never even heard of Tyson Hinds, Marc-Andre Gaudet and Joe Fleming prior to looking at the Sherbrooke roster, if they even have.

Compare him to other defensemen in the Q and again it's guys who aren't really high profile guys or don't project to stand out in the NHL. Scoring in the CHL is often done by guys who don't amount to much in the NHL. So those stats don't really indicate much.

Not to take away from Spacek because it's better to be good in the Q than not be good in the Q, but the point is that being good in the Q is not necessarily a good indicator that he will be good in the NHL, nor do I see how what he has done there makes him a lock to be an impactful NHL defenseman. I mean you look at Beckman who led the WHL in scoring in 2019-20 (ahead of Seth Jarvis, Dylan Cozens) and he's still struggling to make the NHL 3-4 years later.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I'm not saying he's bad, I just don't see how he's above any of the other defensemen in any meaningful way. I don't see how he's more of a lock to be a quality NHL defenseman based on what he's done so far. Plenty of guys have done similarly impressive things in juniors only to wind up either not making the NHL, or just being another depth journeyman. Again, not saying he's definitely not going to be an NHLer, I just don't see him as a lock any more than any of the other guys in our system.

Compare him to his team, sure, but he was playing on a juggernaut (obviously not solely because of him because of him), and none of the defenders on his team are high profile guys who project favorably to the NHL. I guarantee of majority of people on this website had never even heard of Tyson Hinds, Marc-Andre Gaudet and Joe Fleming prior to looking at the Sherbrooke roster, if they even have.

Compare him to other defensemen in the Q and again it's guys who aren't really high profile guys or don't project to stand out in the NHL. Scoring in the CHL is often done by guys who don't amount to much in the NHL. So those stats don't really indicate much.

Not to take away from Spacek because it's better to be good in the Q than not be good in the Q, but the point is that being good in the Q is not necessarily a good indicator that he will be good in the NHL.

I mostly agree with what was said. I think he's more of a lock to be an NHL defenseman over guys like O'Rourke. I don't see O'Rourke making a dent on Minnesota with Brodin-Middleton and then Merrill/Goligoski/Lambos/Hunt/Peart in competition for the last spot. I question which one of those guys will be NHL players at all just based on spots we have to give. I thought Hunt could have played in the NHL last year. We just don't have a spot for him. The right side is so bare, it would not shock me to see Spacek play in the NHL this upcoming season. That's the difference for me. There's a spot for him if he plays well enough.

How many of those guys you talk about have standout WJC performances where they play a huge part in shutting down a perceived generational talent? His performance was amongst the best of the defenders in the Q. All I'm reading is that Spacek was going to be discounted no matter how he performed because of the league he played in. I guess we will see how he does in the AHL this year.

But this whole point is agreeing back to my original point: how can one see Peart or Hunt or any of our defenders as above Spacek? They are all in the same relative boat in terms of quality (I have soured on ROR a bit). My point is Spacek has a more clear path to the NHL. It's the whole reason Faber will be an NHL player this season.

 

[AKL]

I mostly agree with what was said. I think he's more of a lock to be an NHL defenseman over guys like O'Rourke. I don't see O'Rourke making a dent on Minnesota with Brodin-Middleton and then Merrill/Goligoski/Lambos/Hunt/Peart in competition for the last spot. I question which one of those guys will be NHL players at all just based on spots we have to give. I thought Hunt could have played in the NHL last year. We just don't have a spot for him. The right side is so bare, it would not shock me to see Spacek play in the NHL this upcoming season. That's the difference for me. There's a spot for him if he plays well enough.

How many of those guys you talk about have standout WJC performances where they play a huge part in shutting down a perceived generational talent? His performance was amongst the best of the defenders in the Q. All I'm reading is that Spacek was going to be discounted no matter how he performed because of the league he played in. I guess we will see how he does in the AHL this year.

But this whole point is agreeing back to my original point: how can one see Peart or Hunt or any of our defenders as above Spacek? They are all in the same relative boat in terms of quality (I have soured on ROR a bit). My point is Spacek has a more clear path to the NHL. It's the whole reason Faber will be an NHL player this season.

I would agree that Spacek is occupying the same space that guys like Peart, RoR, Hunt, even Lambos to an extent (though I agree with what you said previously that I think Lambos has the raw tools to be better, but he's not really getting the results right now). I don't think he's any lower, I just don't think he's any higher, outside of having an easier path to the league.

I'm cheering for him, because we need all the successes we can get, I just haven't seen anything to definitively say he'll be any better than any of them when they all get to the NHL.

 

[57special]

ROR is a far better skater and puck handler than Pateryn ever was. Not as strong, but, as i keep stressing with him, he is still young. It's hard to project how much he will fill out, and get stronger. He's certainly got decent length.


oh, that's right...Dumba...