Speculation: Matt Duchene Megathread - All News/Proposals Go Here

[WannabeFinn]

There is no trade to be made. If there was one, it would have been done a long time ago.
Duchene stays where he is.
Book it.

We're ~7 months from the trade deadline bud, don't be so sure of yourself

 

[Dr Quincy]

I'm never going to tell you that Duchene is the next coming or anything like that but to call him anything other than a 26 year old 1st liner is just plain stupidity.

Hmm interesting, because on the Avs boards the projected lines with Duchene on the team have him as a 2nd liner.

Of course, you can say that's rare because MacKinnon is a really good 1st line C, so it's not a shot at Duchene that he is the 2nd.

But....

1) That's not true. As of yet MacKinnon is not a really good 1st line C. (though he potentially could be)

and

2) That same argument (someone really elite ahead of him artificially pushing said player down a spot) can also be used for Murray being called a #3 right now despite him not actually being a #3 on a deep CBS blueline.

 

[ColinO]

We're ~7 months from the trade deadline bud, don't be so sure of yourself

Is that when a contending team is going to offer a 1st, former 1st, roster player, and a prospect for Duchene? Doesn't seem likely...bud.

 

[Crede777]

Is that when a contending team is going to offer a 1st, former 1st, roster player, and a prospect for Duchene? Doesn't seem likely...bud.

Jarmo doesn't seem so concerned...

Kekalainen hasn’t given up on making big moves, he said. Free agency, trades — they are all still on the table.

He still is driven to make moves, but isn’t desperate.

“We have plenty of time in the fall and before the (trade) deadline to do something if we feel there’s something we absolutely need in our lineup,” he said.

http://www.dispatch.com/sports/2017...inen-says-he-wont-go-crazy-rush-to-make-trade

 

[ColinO]

Jarmo doesn't seem so concerned...

http://www.dispatch.com/sports/2017...inen-says-he-wont-go-crazy-rush-to-make-trade

Sounds like he thinks Sakic is going to lower his demands. Maybe he will but that's certainly not the impression he has given so far.

 

[Teamoo]

Well no top 4 LHD young dman or for that matter no dman, so probably not close. If it doesn't include 1 defenseman then there is no way we we'll listen.

Lowry is your average bottom 6 forward, 1st is a nice piece, Roslovic is a nice prospect but is the last possible position the Avs need.

Thank you for the reply, I'm not too familiar with your farm system so my apologies for my ignorance. I figure Roslovic could eventually fill the void of a 2C (that's what the he's projected within the Jets org) and Lowry was a sweetener. Unfortunately, Morrisey is what you're describing as your need and he's unavailable. Best Jets could offer is Sami Niku (4th(ish) best Jets prospect) or Tucker Poolman (RHD). We also have Kulikov (he's 26)

So...
Duchene

For

Roslovic
1st
Niku/Poolman (I believe both ceilings are 4/6D but that may be incorrect as fans overvalue their prospects)

Could maybe do a small add.

 

[chet1926]

Hmm interesting, because on the Avs boards the projected lines with Duchene on the team have him as a 2nd liner.

Of course, you can say that's rare because MacKinnon is a really good 1st line C, so it's not a shot at Duchene that he is the 2nd.

But....

1) That's not true. As of yet MacKinnon is not a really good 1st line C. (though he potentially could be)

and

2) That same argument (someone really elite ahead of him artificially pushing said player down a spot) can also be used for Murray being called a #3 right now despite him not actually being a #3 on a deep CBS blueline.

Umm, no. Duchene could easily slot in as our 1st line winger with MacK and Rantanen. Our coach chooses to play him as our "2C" because he wants to spread out the scoring, but this doesn't make him a 2C.

Duchene is a 1st line caliber player on every team in the league. It might not be at center, but he is just as good at wing.

 

[chet1926]

Thank you for the reply, I'm not too familiar with your farm system so my apologies for my ignorance. I figure Roslovic could eventually fill the void of a 2C (that's what the he's projected within the Jets org) and Lowry was a sweetener. Unfortunately, Morrisey is what you're describing as your need and he's unavailable. Best Jets could offer is Sami Niku (4th(ish) best Jets prospect) or Tucker Poolman (RHD). We also have Kulikov (he's 26)

So...
Duchene

For

Roslovic
1st
Niku/Poolman (I believe both ceilings are 4/6D but that may be incorrect as fans overvalue their prospects)

Could maybe do a small add.

Honestly I think Roslovic is a good prospect but there is no need for him at the moment in Colorado.

It would probably have to be a higher ceiling dman, take out Roslovic, leave in Lowry and 1st for the talks to start between Jets and Avs.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Hmm interesting, because on the Avs boards the projected lines with Duchene on the team have him as a 2nd liner.

Project lineups and depth charts are not a direct indication to a player's talent level. Otherwise Malkin would be a #2 center. But I don't have to explain that to you, because I know you already realize that. So the argument here seems to be semantics.

Duchene can and has put up top line production. Regardless of whether he is on the 1st or 2nd line.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Ryder+Halak+2nd

Final offer

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Sounds like he thinks Sakic is going to lower his demands. Maybe he will but that's certainly not the impression he has given so far.

Duchene is still under contract for 2 more years, meaning that Sakic doesn't need to panic and find the best deal he can this off-season. Maybe that's why he's not giving the impression that he's willing to auction Duchene off to the highest bidder. The primary goal right now is to make the Avs better, not to dump Duchene.

 

[ColinO]

Duchene is still under contract for 2 more years, meaning that Sakic doesn't need to panic and find the best deal he can this off-season. Maybe that's why he's not giving the impression that he's willing to auction Duchene off to the highest bidder. The primary goal right now is to make the Avs better, not to dump Duchene.

I agree. That's kind of what I said.

 

[Crede777]

Sounds like he thinks Sakic is going to lower his demands. Maybe he will but that's certainly not the impression he has given so far.

Or that other opportunities will open up.

Jarmo's phrasing, though, makes it seem like he doesn't think adding another center is something the team absolutely needs to do right now.

 

[Monk]

Jarmo's phrasing, though, makes it seem like he doesn't think adding another center is something the team absolutely needs to do right now.

Especially not if he's required to lube up his own a-hole before doing so.

 

[ColinO]

Or that other opportunities will open up.

Jarmo's phrasing, though, makes it seem like he doesn't think adding another center is something the team absolutely needs to do right now.

Exactly. I don't think Duchene is going anywhere soon.

 

[Teamoo]

Honestly I think Roslovic is a good prospect but there is no need for him at the moment in Colorado.

It would probably have to be a higher ceiling dman, take out Roslovic, leave in Lowry and 1st for the talks to start between Jets and Avs.

Ok, let me try one more time (thank you for the replies and your patience)

Jets:
Duchene

Avs:
Lowry
2018 1st
2019 2nd
Niku/Poolman

Honestly, i think you're better off with Roslovic (I'm not enamoured with Lowry like my fellow Jets fans) and the Jets defensive prospects are far too unknown to fill your needs.

Anyway, I appreciate your replies, GL to the Avs, hope you guys turn it around

 

[GregSirico]

Duchene isn't traded yet, right?

 

[Viqsi]

I've never insisted on anything.

...except that every offer is insufficient and needs to be added to.

* * *​

Murray wasn't and right now isn't a solid #3 D. Sorry. Same way Duchene was not a #1 C last season given the way he played. But that was an outlier for him and he has shown in his career that he will get you atleast 50+ a year which makes him atleast a borderline first line player. Murray hasn't done close to the same yet so I wouldn't exactly call last season an outlier for him.

Um. Except for, y'know, every season before last season, where he's done exactly that and more. He played on our top pairing and he was far and away the best blueliner we had, and he basically enabled folks he played with to go forth and produce offense consistently, regularly, and to the team's benefit.

It's easy to see how a forward was doing fine beforehand and not so much now - just look at the points total. It's less easy to see that with a defenseman. It is y'all's prerogative to refuse and not be interested, but I take umbrage with folks insisting that we need to pile a bunch of additional assets on to him. If he's not good enough to be the centerpiece in your eyes, don't act as though he's a throw-in, and we can work on something around PLD instead of something around Murray.

But yeah discussing with you is pointless. If you really think that Murray was a very good #3 D last season, I am wasting my time anyways...

Not last season, any more than Duchene was a #1C last season.

* * *​

I'm never going to tell you that Duchene is the next coming or anything like that but to call him anything other than a 26 year old 1st liner is just plain stupidity.

I'm never going to tell you that Murray is a franchise player, but calling him anything other than a 24-year-old second pairing blueliner can only be due to being grossly misinformed.

I like Murray's game, but at this point in his career he has proven to be a 3rd pairing guy with major ups and downs, that could become a 2nd pairing guy.

"I like Duchene's game, but at this point in his career he has proven to be a middle-6 center with major ups and downs, who could become a consistent top-6 C."

Both statements are bordering on absurd for similar reasons.

 

[Persona5]

Project lineups and depth charts are not a direct indication to a player's talent level. Otherwise Malkin would be a #2 center. But I don't have to explain that to you, because I know you already realize that. So the argument here seems to be semantics.

Duchene can and has put up top line production. Regardless of whether he is on the 1st or 2nd line.

If he was a 1st line center like Malkin is why wouldn't they keep him and build around him and Mac? It's not like the Penguins have this world beating defense either. There is a disconnect between how the fans feel about Duchene and how the organization feel about him for some reason. I personally think he is a top tier 2nd line center on a contending team. I don't think he is capable of being a 1st line center on a team that gets deep in the playoffs. If he was then the Avs wouldn't be looking to move him.

 

[chet1926]

Ok, let me try one more time (thank you for the replies and your patience)

Jets:
Duchene

Avs:
Lowry
2018 1st
2019 2nd
Niku/Poolman

Honestly, i think you're better off with Roslovic (I'm not enamoured with Lowry like my fellow Jets fans) and the Jets defensive prospects are far too unknown to fill your needs.

Anyway, I appreciate your replies, GL to the Avs, hope you guys turn it around

I think the value ok, just not what the Avs would probably be looking for. I don't think the Jets and Avs are good trading partners. Unless it's on a much bigger scale like Duchene+Barrie+2nd for Trouba+Connor+cap dump or something like that.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Duchene isn't traded yet, right?

Traded for a 6 pack of Root Beer and signed Beatles vinyl. Many are still questioning why the pack of gum wasn't included.

If he was a 1st line center like Malkin is why wouldn't they keep him and build around him and Mac? It's not like the Penguins have this world beating defense either. There is a disconnect between how the fans feel about Duchene and how the organization feel about him for some reason. I personally think he is a top tier 2nd line center on a contending team. I don't think he is capable of being a 1st line center on a team that gets deep in the playoffs. If he was then the Avs wouldn't be looking to move him.

Fair question. My counterargument would be to point out that to date there's nothing indicating the Avs feel the need to trade him unless they're getting back value which clearly improves the team. If the Avs felt they needed to move him then he'd probably already be gone based on rumored offerings.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Umm, no. Duchene could easily slot in as our 1st line winger with MacK and Rantanen. Our coach chooses to play him as our "2C" because he wants to spread out the scoring, but this doesn't make him a 2C.

Duchene is a 1st line caliber player on every team in the league. It might not be at center, but he is just as good at wing.

Oh so now he's a first line winger, but not a #1 C? Well then, his value to the rest of the league just went down.

Last season he wasn't a first line player at all. Moving forward if you think he's a first line W then you aren't getting the return you think. If you think he's a #1 C then he may have to go out and prove that he can still play like one before you get the value you want.

 

[Papa Francouz]

It honestly varies depending on who you talk to. Personally, I'd put PLD at the top of the list, then Murray, then Carlsson, based on my perception of team needs going forward and established ability (read: we need a killer forward far more than we need another good young LHD).

Okay, fair enough. In this instance, though, CBJ would be trading for a pretty killer forward in Duchene, so would that make PLD less of a need for CBJ in this scenario? Furthermore, what would be the additional pieces coming along with PLD if he were the main piece in a Duchene trade?

(I'm a pretty big fan of PLD's game and want him on the Avs pretty badly, if you can't tell).

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

...except that every offer is insufficient and needs to be added to.

And where did I say that little missy? Typical HF poster, can't actually defend your absurd comments so you gotta make up BS about the other person to take the focus off what the other person has actually said.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Project lineups and depth charts are not a direct indication to a player's talent level. Otherwise Malkin would be a #2 center. But I don't have to explain that to you, because I know you already realize that. So the argument here seems to be semantics.

Duchene can and has put up top line production. Regardless of whether he is on the 1st or 2nd line.

Except Malkin has 1st line numbers.
Except Malkin plays 1st line level defense.
Except Malkin makes the players around him better than they are.
Except Malkin is behind a generational 1st line C, while Duchene is behind a C who isn't that good defensively and hasn't cracked 40 assists.

Pittsburgh does indeed have 2 #1Cs. It's why they won the Cup multiple times.

COL doesn't have 2 #1Cs. If they did they wouldn't have finished last in scoring. I checked, no team that finished last in scoring in the 10 years prior to last year had 2 guys who wold be considered #1Cs. Most didn't even have one #1C. #1Cs make their wings, even crappy ones, good enough to not finish last in goals.

MacKinnon might some day be a #1C but isn't right now. There are certainly questions as to whether Duchene is still a #1C. Sorry, when you are asking for a top4 under 25 D + 1st +a top prospect it's not semantics to argue whether someone is actually a #1C.

It is at the root of the whole point. But I don't need to explain that to you because I know you already realize that.