Dreger: Matt Duchene Mega-thread:Habs, NSH, NYI, OTT inquired - Part IV

[The Abusement Park]

Was Sakic so occupied trying to get Snow or another GM to cave in to his Duchene demands that he forgot to trade all the other Avalanche veterans or something?

An AHL player and a conditional 4th (that requires Iginla to resign with the Kings to get the pick?) is an atrocious haul for a team that needs all the futures it can get.

I think it's pretty obvious that no one wants our crap. I mean really? Who would want Bourque, Comeau, Colbourne, Weirdo, Mitchell, or Goloboeff?

 

[CodeE]

there is nothing worth having on this roster.

Not sure I buy that. There were a couple years when Snow was selling when he'd have this absurd "I can get a good return now but if I wait until 5 minutes before the deadline I could get a GREAT return!" Philosophy that left us with expiring UFA contracts.

Seems like Snow and Sakic were too busy taking to each other. At a certain point you have to permanently pull Duchene off the block and tell Snow he'll only continue discussions if Snow wants like Tyutin or whoever.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

I think it's pretty obvious that no one wants our crap. I mean really? Who would want Bourque, Comeau, Colbourne, Weirdo, Mitchell, or Goloboeff?

people forget that colorado grabbed a waiver guy who instantly became better than half of what they have

 

[Pacman33]

people forget that colorado grabbed a waiver guy who instantly became better than half of what they have

Two waivers guys. Nieto and barberio

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Two waivers guys. Nieto and barberio

true i was talking about nieto as im not a big barberio fan but he certainly has done better than any dman not named ej barrie or z.

 

[falconski]

Was Sakic so occupied trying to get Snow or another GM to cave in to his Duchene demands that he forgot to trade all the other Avalanche veterans or something?

An AHL player and a conditional 4th (that requires Iginla to resign with the Kings to get the pick?) is an atrocious haul for a team that needs all the futures it can get.

You've spent enough time attacking the avs in this thread to know our depth players are worthless

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Called it

Makes more sense to trade them in the summer.

If they get traded at all.

 

[FourRings]

Price for Duchene will probably fall. Bad move for Sakic IMO.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Price for Duchene will probably fall. Bad move for Sakic IMO.

well the asking price will likely fall

but the pieces being offered will actually likely rise at the draft due to more team flexibility and duchene not having to be protected.

 

[SI90]

Price for Duchene will probably fall. Bad move for Sakic IMO.

They only way Duchene's value gets affected is if he's involved in illegal off the ice activities.

He's been in the league for quite some time now and has a track record. Avs are having a down year and his stats will be affected. His value however will not be.

 

[Ainec]

I read that as Carey Price

people need to stop capitalising price in a hockey board

 

[Foppberg]

I read that as Carey Price

people need to stop capitalising price in a hockey board

It's the first word in a sentence, hence capitalization.

 

[CodeE]

You've spent enough time attacking the avs in this thread to know our depth players are worthless

Yeesh, sorry for simultaneously attacking your team while also disagreeing with the assertion that your veterans have zero value whatsoever

 

[Ainec]

It's the first word in a sentence, hence capitalization.

Price is an exception

 

[Legend123]

I think it's pretty obvious that no one wants our crap. I mean really? Who would want Bourque, Comeau, Colbourne, Weirdo, Mitchell, or Goloboeff?

is wierdo actually a player

 

[IranCondraAffair]

No use criticizing Sakic yet.

If Duchene goes for a subpar return in the off-season, Duchene becomes a locker room issue, or the Avalanche end up losing him for nothing, he will face some well deserved criticism. By many accounts he was pretty unreasonable. We know he had lots of interest and some significant offers.


Again, it only matters if he was wrong, we don't know that yet. It could turn out to be a smart move still

 

[FourRings]

well the asking price will likely fall

but the pieces being offered will actually likely rise at the draft due to more team flexibility and duchene not having to be protected.

They only way Duchene's value gets affected is if he's involved in illegal off the ice activities.

He's been in the league for quite some time now and has a track record. Avs are having a down year and his stats will be affected. His value however will not be.

We'll see, I just think that Sakic has gotten the best offers that he will receive for Duchene. Only so many teams have the pieces that the Avs want and are willing to move them.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

We'll see, I just think that Sakic has gotten the best offers that he will receive for Duchene. Only so many teams have the pieces that the Avs want and are willing to move them.

how do you even know what was being offered?


is it not better for colorado to wait and see at least what pick they have? would that not potentially change the return they would want for duchene? maybe they get crushed on the lottery and get someone like Liljegren which would make colorado more open to trading him for a forward.

I guarentee that if sakic believed what he was being offered was the best he would get, he would've taken it. Sakic has done fairly well with trades so far so i will give him the benefit of the doubt over yourself.

 

[Jeffrey]

They only way Duchene's value gets affected is if he's involved in illegal off the ice activities.

He's been in the league for quite some time now and has a track record. Avs are having a down year and his stats will be affected. His value however will not be.

It depends.. Teams like NYI and Ottawa might fill their need at center from within (Barzal and White) leaving fewer team to bid.

I also doubt Bergevin cave in by giving up Sergachev unless he can have a solid long look at the training camp (where he could get a roster spot by replacing Markov).

I would not be surprised to see Duchene back with the Avs in 2017/18

 

[FourRings]

how do you even know what was being offered?


is it not better for colorado to wait and see at least what pick they have? would that not potentially change the return they would want for duchene? maybe they get crushed on the lottery and get someone like Liljegren which would make colorado more open to trading him for a forward.

I guarentee that if sakic believed what he was being offered was the best he would get, he would've taken it. Sakic has done fairly well with trades so far so i will give him the benefit of the doubt over yourself.

Well I can't say for sure what was offered, but it was reported by multiple people in the know that the Islanders met the asking price which tells me that Sakic may have gotten a bit greedy. MTL, NYI and OTT probably won't be any more willing to bump up their offers and I'm sure that MTL and NYI in particular feel like Sakic was being unreasonable with his requests.

 

[The Abusement Park]

is wierdo actually a player

Well Weircoch lol but Weirdo is easier to type.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Well I can't say for sure what was offered, but it was reported by multiple people in the know that the Islanders met the asking price which tells me that Sakic may have gotten a bit greedy. MTL, NYI and OTT probably won't be any more willing to bump up their offers and I'm sure that MTL and NYI in particular feel like Sakic was being unreasonable with his requests.

Our biggest issue with trading with the Islanders is that they couldn't offer the main piece we wanted in return for Duchene, a young top pairing potential LD. So I'm sure they put in a good offer in a vacuum, but the need probably wasn't as close as it could've been.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Well I can't say for sure what was offered, but it was reported by multiple people in the know that the Islanders met the asking price which tells me that Sakic may have gotten a bit greedy. MTL, NYI and OTT probably won't be any more willing to bump up their offers and I'm sure that MTL and NYI in particular feel like Sakic was being unreasonable with his requests.

there is kind of no way they met his asking price, because they just dont have that dman they are asking for right now. the islanders may think they met his price, but likely not what sakic wanted due to not going through with it.

 

[FourRings]

Our biggest issue with trading with the Islanders is that they couldn't offer the main piece we wanted in return for Duchene, a young top pairing potential LD. So I'm sure they put in a good offer in a vacuum, but the need probably wasn't as close as it could've been.

And that's fair, but I can't see a team that has what the Avs are looking for willing to deal for Duchene. Now, this isn't at all to say that Duchene isn't a great player or that he's worth a good return, it's just that there are very few teams that fit Sakic's criteria for trade partners. Most teams who have blue-chip D prospects most likely aren't looking for someone like Duchene because they are pretty far from contention and could potentially lose Duchene via trade of free agency before their contention window even opens.

Other teams that would want Duchene are most likely the contenders (i.e. Pitt, Chicago etc.) but they most likely don't have the requisite parts that the Avs desire due to years of mid to late draft picks and are most likely under a cap-crunch.

That leaves you with middling teams like MTL, NYI and OTT whom aren't perfect fits, but are capable of providing great returns. The issue here is that these teams are aware of the lack of potential suitors and don't want to offer up the Sergachev's, Chabot's or Barzal's of the world.

I also personally think that Sakic killed any chance of a deal with the Islanders going forward (much to my chagrin as I really think Duchene can make the Isles extremely good) by seemingly turning down an offer from Snow that met his asking price and I would assume asked for more, which ultimately Snow balked to.

Who knows, so much can change, but this is just my opinion.

 

[The Abusement Park]

And that's fair, but I can't see a team that has what the Avs are looking for willing to deal for Duchene. Now, this isn't at all to say that Duchene isn't a great player or that he's worth a good return, it's just that there are very few teams that fit Sakic's criteria for trade partners. Most teams who have blue-chip D prospects most likely aren't looking for someone like Duchene because they are pretty far from contention and could potentially lose Duchene via trade of free agency before their contention window even opens.

Other teams that would want Duchene are most likely the contenders (i.e. Pitt, Chicago etc.) but they most likely don't have the requisite parts that the Avs desire due to years of mid to late draft picks and are most likely under a cap-crunch.

That leaves you with middling teams like MTL, NYI and OTT whom aren't perfect fits, but are capable of providing great returns. The issue here is that these teams are aware of the lack of potential suitors and don't want to offer up the Sergachev's, Chabot's or Barzal's of the world.

I also personally think that Sakic killed any chance of a deal with the Islanders going forward (much to my chagrin as I really think Duchene can make the Isles extremely good) by seemingly turning down an offer from Snow that met his asking price and I would assume asked for more, which ultimately Snow balked to.

Who knows, so much can change, but this is just my opinion.

And I get what you're saying, but if Sakic was to trade Duchene for forwards that aren't as good as him and picks/prospects holy crap that would be a colossal failure on his part. The only reason Duchene is available is so he can hopefully help fix the big hole on our defenses left side.