Matt Calvert match penalty against Ovechkin

[stepdad gaary]

I'm saying it's not clearly a stick-based infraction. It's more like a mound. But thanks for presuming what my opinion is based on something I never said.

you can chose to accept reality or you can chose to be ignorant. you and everyone else in this thread knows he butt ended him in the mouth. its embarrassing to say otherwise. like really embarrassing.

especially considering it was this guy who did it

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

You claimed that Columbus has had four stick-related suspensions in “the past few years”. I went back to 2010-11 and proved that your claim was 100% false, and that they have had TWO stick-related suspensions in that entire time frame.

You posted a video of an incident that did not result in a suspension. I simply took your new definition and that time frame and expanded it according to your parameters.

I assume you were not on the debate team in High School

So what's worse 4 in 3 years or 4 in 7 years?
Again, you are hurting your cause vs helping it

 

[Monk]

Wow did this thread get extremely lame extremely fast. Nice job Pitt fans!

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I'm saying it's not clearly a stick-based infraction.

Did the stick or fist cause the injury?

If he didn't have the stick in his hand, would it have hurt as much/been as dangerous?

You know the answers to those questions. Ergo it IS indeed a stick based infraction.

They certainly didn't give him a match penalty for punching him. It was (and let me say this slowly for the comprehension-impaired)

HIS
STICK
WAS
IN
HIS
HAND

I italicized the stick portion because I really don't have the crayons available to explain it further

 

[Mayor Bee]

I assume you were not on the debate team in High School

So what's worse 4 in 3 years or 4 in 7 years?
Again, you are hurting your cause vs helping it

4=2. Got it.

 

[txpd]

If you have a smart-phone or computer, I can message you details about how to access any NHL game in any market. (and even some important non-NHL games). I'm going to assume that you have one of those devices. lol

Thamks. That's really not necessary. I am a Caps fan. Long time. I don't need the daily fix anymore because we know that no matter how good they are, it will end the same as always. I just checked the score and to see if Ov got one and saw the match penalty. You don't see those everyday

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

4=2. Got it.

Are we now ignoring the coaches which these players play under, or are we allowed to exclude context here?

Prior to Torts coming onboard, the Jackets played pretty clean. Heck the playoff series vs Pitt in 2014 was intense, but there wasn't any garbage going on

As soon as Torts came to Cbus, this stuff starts happening. His players in Vancouver went off the rails too

All I want Jackets fans to admit is that this coach preaches/encourages reckless and dirty play. That's all

But if you want to bring up Cooke ok. The owner of the team told him to knock off the garbage - I can provide links to this conversation.

Want to bring up Neal too? Cool. The Pens had enough of his nonsense that they traded him after another season of incidents

Seems like 1 organization recognized it had an image problem (it was well deserved honestly) and addressed it. What is Cbus doing about it?

Yup...crickets

 

[trader997]

 

[txpd]

Calling it a stick infraction is pretty generous.

Butt ending is by definition a stick penalty. The result of the contact makes it pretty obvious that was the butt end of the stick doing the damage and not the glove. This is a silly defense

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Did the stick or fist cause the injury?

If he didn't have the stick in his hand, would it have hurt as much/been as dangerous?

You know the answers to those questions. Ergo it IS indeed a stick based infraction.

They certainly didn't give him a match penalty for punching him. It was (and let me say this slowly for the comprehension-impaired)

HIS
STICK
WAS
IN
HIS
HAND

I italicized the stick portion because I really don't have the crayons available to explain it further

See man and we were doing so well with the nicknames and stuff. I thought we had something.

You have asked me questions and answered them for me. Sounds like you're not really interested in my answers.

I apologize to you and anyone else offended by my ability to view things in the world as murky and not automatically clear cut. I won't clutter your discussion with it any longer. (As if my continuing to explain my position would actually lead to someone understanding it...)

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

By all means, go ahead and answer the questions

 

[dkhockey]

Anybody have a vid of the Calvert butt-end? Sounds like the dude is building a catalog now.

wow, that is some of the dirtiest S*** you will ever see.... how is that dirtbag still in the NHL? .....smh

 

[mikeyp24]

GG Caps fans you guys beat us like 6? In a row. Happy to finally get one back. It's nice to be able to respect a fanbase after a game. None of either fanbases went after eachothers fans and after an accident in the game both sides take accountability with there players and even the teams don't go over board on little squabbles on the ice in post game interviews.

 

[Viqsi]

All I want Jackets fans to admit is that this coach preaches/encourages reckless and dirty play. That's all

Sure... if you're willing to "admit" in turn that the 2005 draft lottery was rigged in the Pens' favor.

Oh, you don't want to engage in endorsing absurd nonsense that only comes up when rival fans are feeling bitter? Gosh, how shocking that someone would feel that way.

* * *​

wow, that is some of the dirtiest S*** you will ever see.... how is that dirtbag still in the NHL? .....smh

Because that was literally the only time he'd ever done anything even remotely like that ever in his seven-year (at the time) NHL career. The NHL should have thrown the book at him for it.

​

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Sure... if you're willing to "admit" in turn that the 2005 draft lottery was rigged in the Pens' favor.

Oh, you don't want to engage in endorsing absurd nonsense that only comes up when rival fans are feeling bitter? Gosh, how shocking that someone would feel that way.

​

​

Except there is certainly a TON of circumstantial evidence that Torts encourages this stuff. It's not conjecture or conspiracy theory like the draft lotto deflection you've just laid down.

I've shown there is a certain team w/ a certain coach who's had a rash of these stick infractions over the past few yrs . How can anyone refute the evidence presented? But yea, it's just coincidence right??

"Something something relocation" will be your retort, i"m sure...

 

[Viqsi]

Except there is certainly a TON of circumstantial evidence that Torts encourages this stuff the draft lottery was rigged.

FTFY.

I've shown there is a certain team w/ a certain coach who's had a rash of these stick infractions over the past few yrs . How can anyone refute the evidence presented?

It's been done. Repeatedly. In this thread. Others have already shown that your "evidence" consists of an unexceptional number of incidents equivalent to that of most (possibly all) other teams in the League and a giant ****ing heap of selection and confirmation bias. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU TORTORELLA DUBINSKY DUBINSKY TORTORELLA" is not a rebuttal.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

FTFY.


It's been done. Repeatedly. In this thread. Others have already shown that your "evidence" consists of an unexceptional number of incidents equivalent to that of most (possibly all) other teams in the League and a giant ****ing heap of selection and confirmation bias. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU TORTORELLA DUBINSKY DUBINSKY TORTORELLA" is not a rebuttal.

Actually just 1 person has tried to twist the statistics and it didn't quite work out like he wanted. Just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it true.

And it's not Torts or Dubinski. It's one Matt Calvert who has decided to take up resident idiot on the Jackets. It's like the organization or coach doesn't care about him and his dumb stick play.
But please keep defending your Jack Adams winning coach that half the fanbase wanted fired a week ago

 

[Viqsi]

Actually just 1 person has tried to twist the statistics and it didn't quite work out like he wanted.

If you limit what he wanted to "getting you to finally shut up", then I suppose that's an accurate characterization.

Here, this might help - all the suspensions and fines for stick infractions since 2015-2016, via scoutingtherefs.com:
Chicago: 4 (Keith 6gm highsticking 15-16, Hartman fine slashing 17-18, Hayden fine highsticking 17-18, Kane fine slashing 17-18)
Detroit: 3 (Nyquist 6gm highsticking 16-17, Ott fine spearing 16-17, Abdelkader fine spearing 17-18)
San Jose: 3 (Vlasic fine dangerous use of stick 16-17, Dillon 1gm slashing 17-18, Thornton fine slashing 17-18)
Winnipeg: 3 (Stafford 1gm highsticking 15-16, Myers fine crosschecking 15-16, Chiarot fine buttending 17-18)
Buffalo: 2 (Myers fine crosschecking 15-16, Scandella fine slashing 17-18)
Colorado: 2 (Landeskog 3gm crosschecking 15-16, Landeskog 4gm crosschecking 17-18)
Columbus: 2 (Dubinsky 1gm crosschecking 15-16, Savard fine slashing 17-18)
St. Louis: 2 (Bortuzzo fine crosschecking 17-18, Sobotka fine highsticking 17-18)
Los Angeles: 1 (Brown fine crosschecking 17-18)
New Jersey: 1 (Gionta fine spearing 15-16)
Ottawa: 1 (Hoffman 2gm crosschecking 16-17)
Philadelphia: 1 (Gudas 10gm slashing 17-18)
Pittsburgh: 1 (Malkin fine spearing 17-18)
Toronto: 1 (Kadri 4gm crosschecking 15-16)
Vancouver: 1 (Prust fine spearing 15-16)
Washington: 1 (Chimera fine buttending 15-16)
Everyone else: 0

Funny, I don't see you railing against the evils of any other teams or coaches on that list - particularly Chicago, Detroit, San Jose, and/or Winnipeg, who have all had the same coaches in that timeframe.

Just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it true.

You seem to have no problem with using that standard yourself.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Columbus: 2 (Dubinsky 1gm crosschecking 15-16, Savard fine slashing 17-18)
all the suspensions and fines for stick infractions


How can that statistic be accurate when?

"Columbus Blue Jackets winger Matt Calvert has been suspended one game for cross-checking Tom Kuhnhackl of the Pittsburgh Penguins in Game 2 of their Eastern Conference playoff series."

Hmmm....so your data points kinda suck so now I'm questing the validity of the rest of your list. I realize you made your best attempt to produce something but it's still wrong at the end of the day.

Keep trying...maybe you'll get there with accurate evidence to disprove my thesis

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

GG Caps fans you guys beat us like 6? In a row. Happy to finally get one back. It's nice to be able to respect a fanbase after a game. None of either fanbases went after eachothers fans and after an accident in the game both sides take accountability with there players and even the teams don't go over board on little squabbles on the ice in post game interviews.

It's not that big of a deal, all parties involved will tell you that. Minor incident, for which the refs called a penalty.

 

[Socks]

He damn well should have been, I remember screaming at my television (and Kevin Porter) after this incident.

I imagine since the victim was Sergei Plotnikov, no one really cared. But Prout absolutely lost his mind after receiving a run-of-the-mill bump, I couldn't believe he could flip out like this over seemingly nothing.

You yelled at your tv and nothing was done about this? Are you sure it was listening? Did you turn on your Interaction Button? I dunno man, I think you might have a faulty tv. I’d take it in and get it checked out.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Actually just 1 person has tried to twist the statistics and it didn't quite work out like he wanted. Just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it true.

Yeah, that was the person who kept arguing that 4=2 and vice versa.

Hint: it wasn't me.

Double hint: look in the mirror.

 

[Viqsi]

Columbus: 2 (Dubinsky crosschecking 15-16, Savard fine slashing 17-18)
all the suspensions and fines for stick infractions


How can that statistic be accurate when?

"Columbus Blue Jackets winger Matt Calvert has been suspended one game for cross-checking Tom Kuhnhackl of the Pittsburgh Penguins in Game 2 of their Eastern Conference playoff series."

The source I had did not make it clear that they were only covering the regular season. In that time period, there's been only one such stick infraction during the playoffs - the Calvert one. (This per double-checking NHL.com and Wikipedia's lists thereof). Still doesn't explain why Torts is clearly evil incarnate while, say, Quenneville is pure as the white driven snow.

But really, there's not much to work with there - we all know the DoPS overlooks things that ought to have been more severely penalized. And your assertion has been that Columbus has been generally more inclined towards stick infractions under Tortorella, not just getting more suspensions. (Heck, this play being discussed by the thread hasn't received a suspension at all!) Happily, we can get that information pretty easily from ESPN.

Going to that URL right away and seeing this year's stats, you'll note right from the beginning that Pittsburgh is in the top-10 in terms of minor penalties, while Columbus is #30 out of 31 teams. But what happens when we limit that to "dirty" stick infractions - slashing, high-sticking, cross-checking?

TEAM	Slashing	HighSticking	CrossChecking	Total Stick Penalties
Pittsburgh	46	18	20	84
Anaheim	53	17	12	82
Dallas	30	31	15	76
Winnipeg	34	27	12	73
Tampa Bay	44	14	14	72
Colorado	36	19	14	69
St. Louis	36	19	11	66
Vancouver	38	17	9	64
Montreal	36	18	9	63
Buffalo	36	21	6	63
Minnesota	35	18	10	63
Nashville	30	15	18	63
Washington	39	13	10	62
San Jose	38	17	7	62
Philadelphia	29	22	10	61
Boston	40	15	5	60
NY Rangers	36	14	9	59
Calgary	28	23	8	59
New Jersey	19	24	14	57
Ottawa	36	12	8	56
Chicago	29	22	5	56
Vegas	28	19	9	56
Detroit	33	15	6	54
Toronto	24	16	13	53
Florida	33	12	7	52
Los Angeles	28	20	4	52
Arizona	24	20	5	49
NY Islanders	24	12	11	47
Edmonton	30	10	6	46
Carolina	24	12	4	40
Columbus	11	13	9	33

[CAPTION]2017-2018 Minor Penalty Totals through end of 26 February 2018[/CAPTION]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Oh wow. Pittsburgh shoots up to the top as having the most stick infractions in the League, while Columbus has the least in the league by a not insignificant margin. How about that.

I wonder if the other years Torts has been here show a similar discrepancy...

TEAM	Slashing	HighSticking	CrossChecking	Total Stick Penalties
Pittsburgh	37	36	12	85
Calgary	36	29	19	84
Washington	35	35	11	81
Winnipeg	35	34	12	81
Boston	26	33	22	81
St. Louis	37	32	12	81
Minnesota	34	32	13	79
New Jersey	26	29	22	77
Anaheim	29	33	14	76
Colorado	30	30	15	75
Nashville	32	30	11	73
Ottawa	36	25	11	72
Columbus	35	23	13	71
Dallas	19	37	13	69
Florida	27	31	10	68
Philadelphia	29	26	12	67
Arizona	24	29	13	66
Los Angeles	25	29	12	66
NY Islanders	25	25	15	65
Tampa Bay	24	28	12	64
Montreal	30	26	7	63
Detroit	21	28	14	63
Buffalo	21	25	11	57
Toronto	18	22	15	55
NY Rangers	17	29	9	55
Chicago	14	32	4	50
Edmonton	15	15	18	48
Vancouver	24	17	3	44
San Jose	17	20	6	43
Carolina	13	24	4	41

[CAPTION]2016-2017 Minor Penalty Totals, regular season[/CAPTION]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Well, Columbus moves up quite a bit comparatively - at #13 in the league last year - but Pittsburgh stays comfortably ensconced as worst in the League for stick infractions. How about the year before - Torts' first year here?

TEAM	Slashing	HighSticking	CrossChecking	Total Stick Penalties
Anaheim	30	33	19	82
St. Louis	42	25	14	81
Columbus	30	26	22	78
Winnipeg	33	26	18	77
Ottawa	46	18	10	74
Toronto	26	30	17	73
Pittsburgh	36	23	13	72
Arizona	25	31	15	71
Colorado	19	30	20	69
Philadelphia	26	27	14	67
Nashville	34	15	18	67
Los Angeles	27	26	12	65
Boston	26	25	12	63
NY Rangers	24	29	9	62
New Jersey	16	29	16	61
Vancouver	26	23	10	59
Washington	27	20	11	58
Minnesota	19	29	10	58
NY Islanders	22	18	17	57
Montreal	17	28	11	56
Dallas	11	31	14	56
Florida	18	28	8	54
Detroit	19	23	11	53
Carolina	22	23	8	53
Calgary	17	25	8	50
Tampa Bay	16	23	10	49
Buffalo	16	20	13	49
Edmonton	22	19	6	47
San Jose	12	31	4	47
Chicago	14	24	9	47

[CAPTION]2015-2016 Minor Penalty Totals, regular season[/CAPTION]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Well, there we are. Columbus is #3 in the league during Tortorella's first year. Of course, Pittsburgh isn't far behind at #7, but what's a little hypocrisy between rivals, eh?

Interestingly, only 11 stick infractions separate the three years of Tortorella's tenure in Columbus from the two years of Mike Suillvan's tenure in Pittsburgh. And during both of his years, Sullivan's team has always had the most stick infractions in the league, while Tortorella's shows a clear and decisive downward trend. Maybe we should be going on about how Sullivan teaches his players to beat the opponent with their sticks, rather than Tortorella.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Interestingly, only 11 stick infractions separate the three years of Tortorella's tenure in Columbus from the two years of Mike Suillvan's tenure in Pittsburgh. And during both of his years, Sullivan's team has always had the most stick infractions in the league, while Tortorella's shows a clear and decisive downward trend. Maybe we should be going on about how Sullivan teaches his players to beat the opponent with their sticks, rather than Tortorella.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

"But what happens when we limit that to "dirty" stick infractions - slashing, high-sticking, cross-checking?"

So you're saying all slashing/HSing/Crosschecking penalties are of equal value here?

Me hitting a guy in his hands while I try to take the puck away is of equal viciousness compared to crosschecking a guy up near his face? Because at the end of the day they're still recorded as 2 min minors. And as you stated, DOPS has a history of turning a blind eye towards dangerous plays.

Either you're being willfully obtuse or you're dumb and I don't think it's the latter