Proposal: Matheson away from Florida

[Prairie Habs]

We should be fine protection wise up front depending on whether we re-sign Hoffman or Dadonov, if both walk then we are definitely fine with protecting 7 F's.
On defense, some want to move Yandle because he needs protection. If he stays, we protect Yandle, Ekblad and likely Weegar, exposing Stralman, Stillman and Matheson.
Matheson has a clause kick in after expansion draft. Moving out one of them (Yandle/Matheson) is a must but getting rid of both them within the next two years would be a dream.
IF one stays, it's Matheson, he will cost more to move than Yandle.



What kind of clause is this?
You buy Matheson, he's yours, no trade backs.
I wouldn't move the 2021 1st until we have a better idea of where it lands.
FLA may be a bottom 10 team if Hoffman and Dadonov both walk and we move one of Yandle/Matheson.

No one wants to buy Matheson though, a kindly GM renting him is the best you can hope for right now

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Yeah, that's why I'd rather Detroit just get Matheson outright.

Rather have the kicker.

I'd be open to pay DET to retain some of Matheson or Yandle's deal.

If Yandle, this off-season, what's the cost of 600-800k for 3 years
If Matheson, next off-season, what's the cost of 600-700k retention for 5 years?
Then FLA retains a portion of one of them and some other team take them at a decently lowered caphit.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

No one wants to buy Matheson though, a kindly GM renting him is the best you can hope for right now

Zaitsev got moved with no retention, similar deal and term.
Look above this post, I'd try and do a 3 way deal where two teams (FLA and middle team) each retain on one of Yandle or Matheson, FLA pays middle team some draft capital (3rds/4ths)
Matheson around $3.5 million (averages 8-9 goals/25 pts with no PP time) is easier to take on for a team like SEA/OTT/DET.
He has risk in term but still has potential to be a decent offensive defenseman with PP time.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

Agree with this.
May not even need to pay Seattle, depending on who else you are forced to expose.

His value likely only goes up from where it is now

That's some wishful thinking.

 

[Laus723]

1) I disagree a team "needs" someone to mix it up.
2) Lucic is not a force to be reckoned with
3) His skating is horrendous

I'd take a chance a youngish D figures it out rather than an old broken down PF somehow regains what has been physically lost.

every team in the playoffs has guys who “mix it up,” Tampa spent a first on Goodrow and he’s been a huge plus.

Matheson is a disaster on the backend, Lucic is closer to retirement and only ha as couple years left. We can disagree all day long, but I’d cheer if that deal was made as Matheson steadily worsens, he doesn’t look like he’s going to improve at all. Lucic will at least get in the middle of things.

 

[bernmeister]

They can try him in the OZ more or try him as a bottom 6 forward.
He was paired with Yandle and Stralman for most part, he overthinks things in DZ.
The hope among FLA fans a couple years ago was he would be a decent #3/two way D, maybe on top pair with Ekblad but Weegar played on his off-side and clicked better.
Matheson has the offense, just not doing well defensively as his DZ/QOC went up.
All the tools in the kit but can't put 3 or 4 of the 5 together at once.

He can flat out fly from one end to the other, they don't allow him to skate the puck a lot, he's always in the DZ.
Watch some of his highlight reel goals, it's usually end to end rushes that start it off.
We should eat another year and be open to paying SEA to take him with 5 years left (FLA and/or another middle team retaining 600-800k).
Matheson @ $3.2 to 3.5 million is easier to take. Zaitsev like deal if possible.

Math 6 seasons remaining move now is a killer but not impossible.
Work with me here...

FL 2020, 2021, 2022 ad 2023 2nds
+ Matheson retained from 4+ down to 3.3

for

Strome, Lias Anderson + cap dumps Smith, 4.35 expiring

value and analysis:
Strome is worth 2nd +
Smith eats one of Math's 6 yrs, ballpark [I know not exactly post retention, but big picture, ballpark, say the + with Strome cancels that out].

So you are giving up 3 2nds [and remember, this is not all three at once, it's only one per year] to get rid of 5 years of Matheson and add x factor in Lias.

Lias = ingrate waste who cannot skate to date, tho last 2 wks has looked good in Swedish league.
He's your 4C to start w/possible 3C upside IF you can make sure he skates well enough.

Strome will cost 4ish this year, maybe 4.5 next. Has demonstrated can fit with breadman so he might fit w/and give a reason to return to Hoffman.

3.3 is doable, the 6 remaining seasons not so much, but Rangers will gamble if you put enough in picks on the table. Matheson can stopgap while K'Andre Miller and other LDs get here, and at that pt if he has use as a 4LW that is a thought/option

This gets NY picks and gives FL breathing room on cap mgmt as they decide what to do about Stralman [pricey but not a prob if he mostly holds on another yr, though you takes yer chances there] and Yandle who is 3 more at what, 6+? That's not good.

 

[Pantherfan12]

Lol Panthers fans kept saying Matheson was untouchable. Now reading this thread he has the worst contract in the league lollll

Somewhere down the road, he completely fell out. He has great speed, but the past few seasons, he does nothing but play horrible hockey. It's like he was taking a lot of pointers from Yandle, and it rubbed off on him. Bad passes. Out of position. Misses checks. Doesn't play the body. Has great speed, and a decent shot. If we could get him back on track, then I'd be happy with him, but we'd need someone like Brian Campbell to come back to help him.

 

[Mr Positive]

Somewhere down the road, he completely fell out. He has great speed, but the past few seasons, he does nothing but play horrible hockey. It's like he was taking a lot of pointers from Yandle, and it rubbed off on him. Bad passes. Out of position. Misses checks. Doesn't play the body. Has great speed, and a decent shot. If we could get him back on track, then I'd be happy with him, but we'd need someone like Brian Campbell to come back to help him.

Well as an Oiler fan, I recall Petry was the same way (not the same style of player but struggled with inconsistency). It was about 26/27 years old where he started to put it together. Then he was traded.

 

[vipera1960]

Math 6 seasons remaining move now is a killer but not impossible.
Work with me here...

FL 2020, 2021, 2022 ad 2023 2nds
+ Matheson retained from 4+ down to 3.3

for

Strome, Lias Anderson + cap dumps Smith, 4.35 expiring

value and analysis:
Strome is worth 2nd +
Smith eats one of Math's 6 yrs, ballpark [I know not exactly post retention, but big picture, ballpark, say the + with Strome cancels that out].

So you are giving up 3 2nds [and remember, this is not all three at once, it's only one per year] to get rid of 5 years of Matheson and add x factor in Lias.

Lias = ingrate waste who cannot skate to date, tho last 2 wks has looked good in Swedish league.
He's your 4C to start w/possible 3C upside IF you can make sure he skates well enough.

Strome will cost 4ish this year, maybe 4.5 next. Has demonstrated can fit with breadman so he might fit w/and give a reason to return to Hoffman.

3.3 is doable, the 6 remaining seasons not so much, but Rangers will gamble if you put enough in picks on the table. Matheson can stopgap while K'Andre Miller and other LDs get here, and at that pt if he has use as a 4LW that is a thought/option

This gets NY picks and gives FL breathing room on cap mgmt as they decide what to do about Stralman [pricey but not a prob if he mostly holds on another yr, though you takes yer chances there] and Yandle who is 3 more at what, 6+? That's not good.

Not a chance. Matheson is overpaid, but he’s a serviceable player. Even if the value was OK (which it’s not), there’s no chance the Panthers give up 4 2nds in a deal whose premise is “get rid of Matheson.”

 

[Mogo]

Will give 2nd round pick if you just take Matheson

 

[Mogo]

Lol Panthers fans kept saying Matheson was untouchable. Now reading this thread he has the worst contract in the league lollll

I wanna see where someone said Matheson has ever been untouchable

 

[Armourboy]

We've got 4 prospects that could be in the mix for those spots this season. Some combo of them and the dregs we already had will suffice for the regular season. If we need to upgrade for the playoffs then make a cheap deadline deal. The 3rd pairing, shabby as it may be, isn't what is holding us back, and it remains to be seen whether Matheson would fix anything anyway.

Do we even have any dregs going into this season? I can't remember on Tinordi but I'm sure Weber and Irwin are UFA's.

I'm fine with the young guys personally but having a guy who with some work could fill in as a 2nd pairing guy wouldn't be all bad. I mean I'd rather not see a guy like Irwin playing with Josi again due to injuries.

 

[GoldOnGold]

Do we even have any dregs going into this season? I can't remember on Tinordi but I'm sure Weber and Irwin are UFA's.

I'm fine with the young guys personally but having a guy who with some work could fill in as a 2nd pairing guy wouldn't be all bad. I mean I'd rather not see a guy like Irwin playing with Josi again due to injuries.

Tinordi is signed but IMO he would be best as the 7th d.

 

[Armourboy]

Tinordi is signed but IMO he would be best as the 7th d.

Agreed.

 

[Mick Jagr]

We have Zito at the helm now. Maybe he can work something out with his skills.

Not when Ownership wants to shed salary and not be competitive. Sounds like he's trying to get the team to move.

 

[bernmeister]

Not a chance. Matheson is overpaid, but he’s a serviceable player. Even if the value was OK (which it’s not), there’s no chance the Panthers give up 4 2nds in a deal whose premise is “get rid of Matheson.”

“get rid of Matheson.” is yr premise of this thread.
You completely ignored details of my post,
specifically Strome = 2+ in the deal
Smith is expiring helps you get rid of structural long term cap.

I didn't do the math correctly in my earlier post.
4 - 2 = 2, not 3.

So that's 2 2nds remaining (which again, is not all at once but one per yr) + Math for Lias, who is elc, and w/in last 2 wks appears to be coming back from the dead in Sweden

Efforts to sell Matheson high without concession will = epic fail.

suggest re-read, invite re-eval of my offer

if not suit yourself

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Math 6 seasons remaining move now is a killer but not impossible.
Work with me here...

FL 2020, 2021, 2022 ad 2023 2nds
+ Matheson retained from 4+ down to 3.3

for

Strome, Lias Anderson + cap dumps Smith, 4.35 expiring

value and analysis:
Strome is worth 2nd +
Smith eats one of Math's 6 yrs, ballpark [I know not exactly post retention, but big picture, ballpark, say the + with Strome cancels that out].

So you are giving up 3 2nds [and remember, this is not all three at once, it's only one per year] to get rid of 5 years of Matheson and add x factor in Lias.

Lias = ingrate waste who cannot skate to date, tho last 2 wks has looked good in Swedish league.
He's your 4C to start w/possible 3C upside IF you can make sure he skates well enough.

Strome will cost 4ish this year, maybe 4.5 next. Has demonstrated can fit with breadman so he might fit w/and give a reason to return to Hoffman.

3.3 is doable, the 6 remaining seasons not so much, but Rangers will gamble if you put enough in picks on the table. Matheson can stopgap while K'Andre Miller and other LDs get here, and at that pt if he has use as a 4LW that is a thought/option

This gets NY picks and gives FL breathing room on cap mgmt as they decide what to do about Stralman [pricey but not a prob if he mostly holds on another yr, though you takes yer chances there] and Yandle who is 3 more at what, 6+? That's not good.

I dont think FLA will retain $1.5 mil for 6 years, they would retain half of that and get another team to retain the other half of the $1.5 mil.

We'd have to pay the middle team some draft capital as well so not all the 2nds would go to NYR.
Again, would prefer to retain on Yandle and burn another year on Mathesons deal.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

....even Jack Johnson wasn't moved to forward.

 

[bernmeister]

I dont think FLA will retain $1.5 mil for 6 years, they would retain half of that and get another team to retain the other half of the $1.5 mil.

We'd have to pay the middle team some draft capital as well so not all the 2nds would go to NYR.
Again, would prefer to retain on Yandle and burn another year on Mathesons deal.

I'm not following you, as in my offer I was guided in part by below...

...
All the tools in the kit but can't put 3 or 4 of the 5 together at once.
... We should eat another year and be open to paying SEA to take him with 5 years left (FLA and/or another middle team retaining 600-800k).
Matheson @ $3.2 to 3.5 million is easier to take. Zaitsev like deal if possible.

I see this is 5 years not 6 you suggest FL holding 1 more yr, but if NY took the extra year reasonable, why not go there?
I basically gave you equiv of what you wanted by saying take expiring Smith for 1 yr, so you are paying team to take on Math for 5.

Also, you said specif, "Matheson @ $3.2 to 3.5 million is easier to take".
My number of 3.3 is spot on.

As to getting one team to eat part of that 1.5 and another an additional part, that is not merely unwieldy, it is unlikely.

Remember, Math is 6 years. Repeat 6 years.
Okay, you say --- at cost to you, hold him another year.
That is still 5 years.
5 long years.
No one is gonna take modest compensation for a piece when it is that much long term.

As you like, but honestly, I doubt you get a better deal than mine given his term.

always a pleasure TIP
peace out

 

[bernmeister]

I dont think FLA will retain $1.5 mil for 6 years, they would retain half of that and get another team to retain the other half of the $1.5 mil.

We'd have to pay the middle team some draft capital as well so not all the 2nds would go to NYR.
Again, would prefer to retain on Yandle and burn another year on Mathesons deal.

I'm not following you, as in my offer I was guided in part by below...

...
All the tools in the kit but can't put 3 or 4 of the 5 together at once.
... We should eat another year and be open to paying SEA to take him with 5 years left (FLA and/or another middle team retaining 600-800k).
Matheson @ $3.2 to 3.5 million is easier to take. Zaitsev like deal if possible.

I see this is 5 years not 6 you suggest FL holding 1 more yr, but if NY took the extra year reasonable, why not go there?
I basically gave you equiv of what you wanted by saying take expiring Smith for 1 yr, so you are paying team to take on Math for 5.

Also, you said specif, "Matheson @ $3.2 to 3.5 million is easier to take".
My number of 3.3 is spot on.

As to getting one team to eat part of that 1.5 and another an additional part, that is not merely unwieldy, it is unlikely.

Remember, Math is 6 years. Repeat 6 years.
Okay, you say --- at cost to you, hold him another year.
That is still 5 years.
5 long years.
No one is gonna take modest compensation for a piece when it is that much long term.

As you like, but honestly, I doubt you get a better deal than mine given his term.

always a pleasure TIP
peace out

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I'm not following you, as in my offer I was guided in part by below...



I see this is 5 years not 6 you suggest FL holding 1 more yr, but if NY took the extra year reasonable, why not go there?
I basically gave you equiv of what you wanted by saying take expiring Smith for 1 yr, so you are paying team to take on Math for 5.

Also, you said specif, "Matheson @ $3.2 to 3.5 million is easier to take".
My number of 3.3 is spot on.

As to getting one team to eat part of that 1.5 and another an additional part, that is not merely unwieldy, it is unlikely.

Remember, Math is 6 years. Repeat 6 years.
Okay, you say --- at cost to you, hold him another year.
That is still 5 years.
5 long years.
No one is gonna take modest compensation for a piece when it is that much long term.

As you like, but honestly, I doubt you get a better deal than mine given his term.

always a pleasure TIP
peace out

Zaitsev and Lucic were moved and they were considered some of the worst deals in the NHL.

5 years at $3.3 million, I think a team
would bite on him as he produces offensively and should touch 30-35pts with 2nd PP unit time.

We've tried many times to move Matheson and failed to do so, no harm and no foul.
Yandle is my guy to move for now.
All the best Bern.

 

[bernmeister]

Zaitsev and Lucic were moved and they were considered some of the worst deals in the NHL.

5 years at $3.3 million, I think a team
would bite on him as he produces offensively and should touch 30-35pts with 2nd PP unit time.

We've tried many times to move Matheson and failed to do so, no harm and no foul.
Yandle is my guy to move for now.
All the best Bern.

This is what I don't understand.
I'll take him at 3.3, and I take him cheap, but ya still gotta pay me and recognize it would be 6 yrs if we did that now.
And whether it is 5 or 6, it is signif enuf term that that's what has to go down to get out from under.
Were he 2-3 years, that is easier to swallow, but 5 or 6 is still very, very tough.

I understand whatever that comes out to/w/w'out Strome or someone else in the equation, that package has to work for you as well.

As to Yandle, totally can't help you there, but agree, whatever he brings on the ice, you need the cap space and he is the first you wanna look at moving.
Thankfully he is only 3 more seasons.

all best
gotta run

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

This is what I don't understand.
I'll take him at 3.3, and I take him cheap, but ya still gotta pay me and recognize it would be 6 yrs if we did that now.
And whether it is 5 or 6, it is signif enuf term that that's what has to go down to get out from under.
Were he 2-3 years, that is easier to swallow, but 5 or 6 is still very, very tough.

I understand whatever that comes out to/w/w'out Strome or someone else in the equation, that package has to work for you as well.

As to Yandle, totally can't help you there, but agree, whatever he brings on the ice, you need the cap space and he is the first you wanna look at moving.
Thankfully he is only 3 more seasons.

all best
gotta run

You have FLA eating $1.5 million and then adding THREE 2nd's, assuming one for Strome, Lias worth a 2nd I guess?
Lias isn't much of interest for me, take him out, we have a similar project in Borgstrom already.
Strome would be of interest depending on his ask on next contract.
We've spoke about both of FLA's 2020 3rd's (COL + FLA) + 2021 2nd for Strome.

Zaitsev was moved at full caphit ($4.5 mil) x 6 years + Connor Brown ($2.1 mil) x 2 years + Carcone's signing rights
for
Ceci's signing rights + 2020 3rd (COL's) + Harpur (750k) x 2 years + Luchuk (759k) x 2 years

Lucic was moved/retained 750k, ($5,25 mil) x 5 years + 2020 conditional 3rd (EDM picks 2020 or 2021)
for
Neal ($5.75 mil) x 4 years

Kyle Dubas retained $2.5 million on Lehner, he got a 5th round pick as example of middle team buying a pick for retention.
Lehner is a UFA but 750k shouldn't cost more than a 5th/6th rounder, typically the price for a league minimum guy. Now multiply 5 years of 750k if it's Matheson which = $3.75 mil, so what does that cost?

I think Matheson has value at $3.3 million, not a cap dump. 8-9 goals and 25pts on average pace for that money seems about fair no?
A team like DET, SEA or NJ would have some interest and we would eat a short term cap dump + mid pick in return. They take risk on term but may reap some rewards at that retained value.

 

[Patagonia]

You have FLA eating $1.5 million and then adding THREE 2nd's, assuming one for Strome, Lias worth a 2nd I guess?
Lias isn't much of interest for me, take him out, we have a similar project in Borgstrom already.
Strome would be of interest depending on his ask on next contract.
We've spoke about both of FLA's 2020 3rd's (COL + FLA) + 2021 2nd for Strome.

Zaitsev was moved at full caphit ($4.5 mil) x 6 years + Connor Brown ($2.1 mil) x 2 years + Carcone's signing rights
for
Ceci's signing rights + 2020 3rd (COL's) + Harpur (750k) x 2 years + Luchuk (759k) x 2 years

Lucic was moved/retained 750k, ($5,25 mil) x 5 years + 2020 conditional 3rd (EDM picks 2020 or 2021)
for
Neal ($5.75 mil) x 4 years

Kyle Dubas retained $2.5 million on Lehner, he got a 5th round pick as example of middle team buying a pick for retention.
Lehner is a UFA but 750k shouldn't cost more than a 5th/6th rounder, typically the price for a league minimum guy. Now multiply 5 years of 750k if it's Matheson which = $3.75 mil, so what does that cost?

I think Matheson has value at $3.3 million, not a cap dump. 8-9 goals and 25pts on average pace for that money seems about fair no?
A team like DET, SEA or NJ would have some interest and we would eat a short term cap dump + mid pick in return. They take risk on term but may reap some rewards at that retained value.

Matheson has so little value with the high salary and lengthy term. I doubt those teams would have any interest. FL needs to retain (doubtful) or provide enough incentive to a team with Cap Space to absorb the full deal. I believe COL can easily absorb the full cap hit and/or possibly re-trade with retention.

Matheson
2020-1st
2020-2nd
2021-1st

for

Zadorov

 

[majormajor]

Kyle Dubas retained $2.5 million on Lehner, he got a 5th round pick

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that a prorated fraction of the $2.5m cap hit? The actual salary involved would have been something like a one-time $750k payment, and done after the team had already ice the roster it planned to for the year and happened to have leftover cap.