Proposal: Matheson away from Florida

[violaswallet]

Mike Matheson (aka covi-19) bargained a strong first two seasons and amazing world championships (13 pts over 20 games) into a contract paying $4.875M until the 2025-2026 based on a belief he would become a dominant two-way defenseman with elite speed. His speed still remains, but his play has fallen greatly since the Pettersson incident and the death threats. Under Q, he has become a health scratch often and had one of the worse series ever against the Islanders.

He needs to a change of scenery at least and Florida probably wants his caphit gone. What would be a reasonable trade for him? It is rare to have a younger player with such an albatross contract gone, which makes comparables more difficult: he feasibly could become much better if put in an environment with a stronger defensive system.

On our board, we have come across two ideas:

Trade Option 1:
Matheson + conditional pick to Nashville, Turris to Florida

This gets Turris's longer contract out of there, gives Nashville a strong player who could prosper behind an elite defense. The conditional pick would probably be based on Turris' scoring: say a conditional 3rd if Turris scores more than 40 points and a conditional 2nd if Turris scores more than 50.

Trade Option 2:
Matheson to Calgary, Lucic to Florida. Remove an albatross contract from Calgary. I could see a conditional pick as well based on both players' performances next season...

Thoughts? Any better ideas? Or are we stuck?

Click to read more...

 

[The Nuge]

I feel like you need a pretty sizeable add still with either of those moves. When you look at the massive term Matheson has, he might actually have the worst contract in the NHL. Him having to be used as a forward despite Florida having a pretty weak to mediocre defense is going to make it pretty unappealing to acquire him.

Lucic at 5.25 for 3 years is preferable to Matheson at 4.875 for 6 years. Both are bad, but at least you’ve only got Lucic’s deal for half the term of Matheson’s.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I feel like you need a pretty sizeable add still with either of those moves. When you look at the massive term Matheson has, he might actually have the worst contract in the NHL. Him having to be used as a forward despite Florida having a pretty weak to mediocre defense is going to make it pretty unappealing to acquire him.

Lucic at 5.25 for 3 years is preferable to Matheson at 4.875 for 6 years. Both are bad, but at least you’ve only got Lucic’s deal for half the term of Matheson’s.

Vlasic says hello, 6 years x $7 mil until he's basically 40.

2019-20


2018-2020

 

[violaswallet]

I feel like you need a pretty sizeable add still with either of those moves. When you look at the massive term Matheson has, he might actually have the worst contract in the NHL. Him having to be used as a forward despite Florida having a pretty weak to mediocre defense is going to make it pretty unappealing to acquire him.

Lucic at 5.25 for 3 years is preferable to Matheson at 4.875 for 6 years. Both are bad, but at least you’ve only got Lucic’s deal for half the term of Matheson’s.

True, I am not sure what the add should be.

I do think the difference in projection matters a lot: Lucic in two years might not be able to skate; Matheson could feasibly rebound.

Makes sense about the forward, although tbf, he was actually very good there. (3 points in his first game) One idea floating around could be converting him full time.

Vlasic says hello, 6 years x $7 mil until he's basically 40.

2019-20
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2018-2020
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It's not a contest, but could be worst. Maybe we should try that trade

 

[John B]

Is Matheson really that bad? I'm kind of surprised that people see him as having one of the worst contracts.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I think the Matheson/Turris swap could workout for both teams, Matheson has two years longer term but less cap hit. I think Matheson could regain enough form on the Preds blue line to make that contract not so terrible.

Cats seem to have a place at 2C that Turris could slot into and I think Turris, for whatever reason, is a guy who does better in the East.

All that being said I think Nashville asks for a small plus because of the contract length.

 

[violaswallet]

I think the Matheson/Turris swap could workout for both teams, Matheson has two years longer term but less cap hit. I think Matheson could regain enough form on the Preds blue line to make that contract not so terrible.

Cats seem to have a place at 2C that Turris could slot into and I think Turris, for whatever reason, is a guy who does better in the East.

All that being said I think Nashville asks for a small plus because of the contract length.

Gotchya. Beyond the conditional 2nd? We could take Santini maybe in lieu of a light retention? I agree that the Preds blue line would help: Matheson seems to struggle with the mental side of the game and then it cascades, but part of that is that we don't have the right players to mentor him. I think we thought Stralman would be, but Stralman physically declined

Is Matheson really that bad? I'm kind of surprised that people see him as having one of the worst contracts.

He has a lot of talent and physical ability, but his mental play has been awful. We took a bet on him with that contract and it hasn't worked out; I do think he could do well with the proper structure.

 

[De Montreal]

that Turris/Matheson proposal is not bad at all

If the Habs had a bad contract to dumb I wouldnt have been against a swap for Matheson, he might still be able to figure it it out

 

[The Nuge]

Vlasic says hello, 6 years x $7 mil until he's basically 40.

2019-20
View attachment 366358

2018-2020
View attachment 366359

I mean, I’d rather have Vlasic for the extra 2 million. The age difference is a valid concern, but he’d still have to decline fairly considerably, and even then, he’d be a great vet to have around. Both are definitely really bad deals though

True, I am not sure what the add should be.

I do think the difference in projection matters a lot: Lucic in two years might not be able to skate; Matheson could feasibly rebound.

Makes sense about the forward, although tbf, he was actually very good there. (3 points in his first game) One idea floating around could be converting him full time.




It's not a contest, but could be worst. Maybe we should try that trade

Lucic is only signed until 34, and has been extremely healthy throughout his career. The game continuing to get faster should be the only risk really with Lucic.

Ya I didn’t actually mind Matheson at forward in the games I watched. Converting him to a forward full time and hoping he puts up 30-40 points is probably the best bet for dumping his contract imo

 

[GoldOnGold]

We've been discussing a Matheson/Turris swap on the Preds board as well. I think the core idea is sound, although the exact details could be wrangled over. Turris is just too superfluous to our needs at this point since Johansen/Duchene/Bonino have the top 3 center spots pretty locked down, and Turris has never done much on the wing. We also could use a stronger 3rd pair, and Matheson would hopefully be able to flourish in the reduced role he would have on our team.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think many Preds fans are onboard with the swap for Turris. Turris isn't as bad as you'd think just from reading these boards or the recent stats lines. He's an adequate #2C who would probably produce adequate 2C numbers if you were willing to just keep rolling him out there in that slot with half decent linemates. There's nothing really wrong with him, other than he has no chemistry and no spot in our lineup at present.

And our 3rd pair on D has been a wasteland for years. So while Matheson is a very pricey reclamation project for that role, we'd have the cap space if we traded Turris to run that experiment. Maybe it'd pan out, maybe it wouldn't. I think we're down for trying it. If one day he steps up, bonus. If not, well, we're not much worse off than we are currently trying to peddle Turris to a limited number of suitors.

Fax it in.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

It's not a contest, but could be worst. Maybe we should try that trade

He should be pulled off PK duties and given more time in OZ and maybe some time on the 2nd PP unit.
We have Weegar, Stralman and guys like Keeper that should be playing PK roles.
Time to shift Matheson to an offensive D and use his strength of skating to an advantage.

Is Matheson really that bad? I'm kind of surprised that people see him as having one of the worst contracts.

He had a horrible year last season but he was also rushed into the league and forced to play 20+ mins/game right off the bat.

rookie year in 2016-17- 21:02 per game (7g, 17pts in 81 games, :29 seconds on PP time)
2017-18 - 21:20 per game (10g, 27pts in 81 games, averaged 1:06 of PP time - 1g, 4pts on man advantage)
2018-19 - 22:19 per game (8g, 27pts in 75 games, averaged :47 seconds of PP time - 6 assists on mad advantage)
2019-20 - 18:02 per game (8g, 20pts in 59 games, averaged :12 seconds of PP time - 1g, 2pts on man advantage)

He was forced to be a two way guy and more of a defensive defenseman when he is more suited for offense.
He is inside the top 30 defensemen in goal scoring since 2016-17, 33 goals (31 of them at even strength) over 3.8 years.
Struggled last year and this one when he was deployed more in the DZ and was downright bad in the NYI series.
He reminds a lot of Brady Skjei, they have very similar even strength production and fancy stats.
Still valuable if used in the right situation but don't fault others for being scared off by the term.
If he was given more PP time and got 10-12 goals/30-35pts, people wouldn't be so focused on his deal.

 

[Guttersniped]

Matheson is back loaded so he’s only making 3.5m next season but he would definitely need to rebound because he’s making 6.5m in his last 3 seasons. There’s also talk about the CBA tweaks including teams having to honor NTC in trades players deals and Matheson has a modified NTC with a 8 team no trade list kicking in 2021-22.

A trade involving Turris seems reasonable since he turned 31 in August and has 4 years left while Matheson will be 32 when his 6 years are up. That said, it hard to trade a long bad contract for a longer bad contract and feel better because the longer one is allegedly not as a bad. The question is if Matheson is a potential reclamation project with upside and my eightball is cloudy on that query.

 

[violaswallet]

We've been discussing a Matheson/Turris swap on the Preds board as well. I think the core idea is sound, although the exact details could be wrangled over. Turris is just too superfluous to our needs at this point since Johansen/Duchene/Bonino have the top 3 center spots pretty locked down, and Turris has never done much on the wing. We also could use a stronger 3rd pair, and Matheson would hopefully be able to flourish in the reduced role he would have on our team.

Yep. It seems that both fan bases see it as value-added. Any idea what the plus would be?

As an economist , I like the idea of the conditional 2nd/3rd going to Nashville to counteract the risk that Turris is just buried behind better talent/bad reputation. Thoughts?

Plus, if we re-sign Hoffman (which I think is likely if we can make this trade), I think a line of Connolly-Turris-Hoffman could re-ignite Turris

 

[AfroThunder396]

Do Panthers fans view him as a pure dump? As an outsider he seems like a decent reclamation project, but with that cap I'd be scared to give up real assets for him.

 

[Mick Jagr]

Is Matheson really that bad? I'm kind of surprised that people see him as having one of the worst contracts.

It's his 4.8 million AAV, 5 years remaining and a modified NTC in the last 3 years for a player who's 26 and hovers around 30 points.

HFBoards seems to hate him and this this deal is far more god awful than those in the NHL media. When bad contracts are brought up outside of HFboards like Lucic, Neal etc. nobody seems to mention Matheson.

So how bad is he really? Did they just overvalue him and sign him for too long or what?

 

[violaswallet]

Do Panthers fans view him as a pure dump? As an outsider he seems like a decent reclamation project, but with that cap I'd be scared to give up real assets for him.

I view him as a reclamation project where his contract is the biggest issue. He has tremendous talent, but Florida has not worked for him and it looks like he needed more structure. At times (such as October), he looked like a great player.

I think we would just want out of his contract, despite his potential.

It's his 4.8 million AAV, 5 years remaining and a modified NTC in the last 3 years for a player who's 26 and hovers around 30 points.

HFBoards seems to hate him and this this deal is far more god awful than those in the NHL media. When bad contracts are brought up outside of HFboards like Lucic, Neal etc. nobody seems to mention Matheson.

So how bad is he really? Did they just overvalue him and sign him for too long or what?

The Panthers made long-term bets on their core: Bjugstad, Matheson, Trocheck, Huberdeau, Ekblad, and Barkov all got long contracts where the team assumed the risk; the last four worked pretty well for the team (with Huby's and Barky's deals probably being the best in hockey). Matheson just did not develop as well as he should have, which happens when you assume the risk.

I think as a Panthers fan, I view the EP incident as the start of the shift tbh.

Edit: For the main board, the issue is that his point totals are fine; the issue is that he makes really stupid defensive plays which don't show up in advanced stats either.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I am counting 6 years left on the Matheson deal. fwiw.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Mike Matheson (aka covi-19) bargained a strong first two seasons and amazing world championships (13 pts over 20 games) into a contract paying $4.875M until the 2025-2026 based on a belief he would become a dominant two-way defenseman with elite speed. His speed still remains, but his play has fallen greatly since the Pettersson incident and the death threats. Under Q, he has become a health scratch often and had one of the worse series ever against the Islanders.

He needs to a change of scenery at least and Florida probably wants his caphit gone. What would be a reasonable trade for him? It is rare to have a younger player with such an albatross contract gone, which makes comparables more difficult: he feasibly could become much better if put in an environment with a stronger defensive system.

On our board, we have come across two ideas:

Trade Option 1:
Matheson + conditional pick to Nashville, Turris to Florida

This gets Turris's longer contract out of there, gives Nashville a strong player who could prosper behind an elite defense. The conditional pick would probably be based on Turris' scoring: say a conditional 3rd if Turris scores more than 40 points and a conditional 2nd if Turris scores more than 50.

Trade Option 2:
Matheson to Calgary, Lucic to Florida. Remove an albatross contract from Calgary. I could see a conditional pick as well based on both players' performances next season...

Thoughts? Any better ideas? Or are we stuck?

I'd rather gamble on Matheson bouncing back than trade him for Lucic.

 

[violaswallet]

I'd rather gamble on Matheson bouncing back than trade him for Lucic.

Eh, I would except for how much we spend on defense: if Weegar re-signs at where we expect (~4M), we would have 5 defensemen making above 4M with one of the worst defenses. I much rather put that money into some leadership and grit upfront.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

With Josi and Ekholm already on the left side that's a lot of salary and term on the 3rd pairing just to ditch Turris' contract. Sure, if Matheson regains form we could trade him for value, but if he doesn't I think we're in a worse situation than we are with Turris.

 

[Laus723]

I'd rather gamble on Matheson bouncing back than trade him for Lucic.

I’d move Matheson for Lucic all day. He’s not the same force to be reckoned with, but he’s still a bad mofo and we need guys that will mix it up at times. The fact that he only has a couple years left where Math has 6, that’s another plus. Don’t think I see Calgary doing that.

friend of mine, Rattrick, and I were also discussing Turris for Matheson. Matheson just needs to go, hope he bounces back, but that’s addition by subtraction. And the Panthers need a 2C.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Matheson to Detroit...

How would that deal look?

Any opinions?

 

[varano]

Lol Panthers fans kept saying Matheson was untouchable. Now reading this thread he has the worst contract in the league lollll

 

[Vinman88]

We have Zito at the helm now. Maybe he can work something out with his skills.