Mat Barzal or Ivan Provorov

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Why would 1D be greater than 1C, but top-10 D is less than top-10 C?

Really though?

A 1C can affect the game more yet a 1D is much harder to find. This really isnt news and is why there are about or more than 30 1Cs and there arent even 15 1Ds

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Really though?

A 1C can affect the game more yet a 1D is much harder to find. This really isnt news and is why there are about or more than 30 1Cs and there arent even 15 1Ds

Huh? There are more than 15 #1D in the league.

I think you're confusing elite #1D with 1D.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

That just very good guy just led the NHL in goals by a Dman without being in the top PP unit.

Both guys are special. Sorry you guys took Zacha,

For Philly, the #1 D would be the choice.

Meh. There are more important metrics than scoring goals. Especially for a dman lol

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Really though?

A 1C can affect the game more yet a 1D is much harder to find. This really isnt news and is why there are about or more than 30 1Cs and there arent even 15 1Ds

This is literally the opposite of the truth...

Only one team has won the Cup post lockout with a center that wasn’t indisputably top-15 at their position, yet four have won with a #1D that was indisputably not top-15 at their position.

 

[780il]

Provorov is a stud. Already a #1 and only getting better. Plus he fills the more valuable position and probably wont cost as much as Barzal on his next contract. I'd take him 3rd in a redraft anyday.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Provorov is a stud. Already a #1 and only getting better. Plus he fills the more valuable position and probably wont cost as much as Barzal on his next contract. I'd take him 3rd in a redraft anyday.

I think that's easier to say when you're cheering for a team that's got McDavid, Draisaitl, and Nugent-Hopkins down the middle, and are sorely lacking a #1D. It's the same reason I'd rather have Provorov on the Pens.

But if I were starting a franchise from scratch and had to "build" around someone I drafted at #3 overall, I'm not sure I'd opt for Provorov over Barzal. It would be close, but I might opt for the elite forward over the elite defenceman.

 

[780il]

I think that's easier to say when you're cheering for a team that's got McDavid, Draisaitl, and Nugent-Hopkins down the middle, and are sorely lacking a #1D. It's the same reason I'd rather have Provorov on the Pens.

But if I were starting a franchise from scratch and had to "build" around someone I drafted at #3 overall, I'm not sure I'd opt for Provorov over Barzal. It would be close, but I might opt for the elite forward over the elite defenceman.

I totally agree with you. Could go either one imo. But the big reason I chose Provorov was because with a dman of that calibre my team would be a cup contender.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Huh? There are more than 15 #1D in the league.

I think you're confusing elite #1D with 1D.

Go ahead and name them

I could use a laugh, there may not even be 15 1Ds let alone 30.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Go ahead and name them

I could use a laugh, there may not even be 15 1Ds let alone 30.

First off, where did I say 30? I said "more than 15".

(in random order)
Hedman
Doughty
Karlsson
Subban
Josi
Suter
Letang
Burns
Jones
Werenski
Giordano
Provorov
Ekman-Larsson
Carlson
Chara
Krug
Lindholm
Klingberg
Pietrangelo
Byfuglien
Vlasic
Hamilton

That's 21, and that's not including the maybes like Gostisbehere, Ekholm, Ellis, Yandle, Barrie, Rielly, Ekblad, Parayko, Fowler, McAvoy, etc.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

As a Flyer fan I'd take Provorov.

Not because he already plays for them, but because he's probably the best defenceman the Flyers have ever drafted and developed. Off the top of my head I'm not sure how many #1 centres the Flyers have developed over the years...plenty. But #1 dmen? Heck even good dmen...

Can't go wrong with either guy though. I just know for my team it'd be Provorov.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

First off, where did I say 30? I said "more than 15".

(in random order)
Hedman
Doughty
Karlsson
Subban
Josi
Suter
Letang
Burns
Jones
Werenski
Giordano
Provorov
Ekman-Larsson
Carlson
Chara
Krug
Lindholm
Klingberg
Pietrangelo
Byfuglien
Vlasic
Hamilton

That's 21, and that's not including the maybes like Gostisbehere, Ekholm, Ellis, Yandle, Barrie, Rielly, Ekblad, Parayko, Fowler, McAvoy, etc.

Yikes. Krug and Werenski 1Ds? Vlasic? Youre telling me SJ has two 1Ds?

Your standards are pretty low apparently

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yikes. Krug and Werenski 1Ds? Vlasic? Youre telling me SJ has two 1Ds?

Your standards are pretty low apparently

Lets see your list of 1C. I bet you'll list a bunch of guys who are the C equivalent of those guys you "yikes'd".

 

[Tripod]

Meh. There are more important metrics than scoring goals. Especially for a dman lol

And is Provy known for his offense? No. He is known for his defense and lugging around AMac for 1.5 years.

Come on, you are smarter than this.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Lets see your list of 1C. I bet you'll list a bunch of guys who are the C equivalent of those guys you "yikes'd".

So again youre claiming San Jose has two #1 defenseman and Torey Krug is a #1 which means Boston has three potentially with McAvoy as well...

That doesnt sound ludicrous to you?

 

[Tripod]

I think what has been shown thru stats though is that it is easier to find elite dmen later in the draft whereas top scoring forwards usually come from the top 5 picks.

You think of the top 20 scorers from the last 8 years, and 14 of them are top 5 picks. The outliers are Giroux, Getz, Perry, Pavs, Benn and Kopitar.

But when you think of the top Dmen, it's been guys like EK, PK, Weber, Suter, Keith, etc... In fact, only 3 of the top 20 scoring Dmen over the last 8 years have been top 5 picks with Doughty, Hedman and Pietrangelo being the outliers.

Point is, taking the C if you are not planning on drafting top 5 might be the best choice since it seems more likely to grab an elite Dman later on than a top scorer.

For for thought.

 

[ookhaab]

So again youre claiming San Jose has two #1 defenseman and Torey Krug is a #1 which means Boston has three potentially with McAvoy as well...

That doesnt sound ludicrous to you?

Are you really trying to suggest that Vlasic is not a #1 D? Really?

How is it ludicrous to have two #1 Ds?

Nashville and Carolina also fit this mold with Josi and Subban, Slavin and Hamilton.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So again youre claiming San Jose has two #1 defenseman and Torey Krug is a #1 which means Boston has three potentially with McAvoy as well...

That doesnt sound ludicrous to you?

Uh? Nashville has 2, or do you think just because Josi plays on a team with Subban that means he's no longer good enough to be a #1?

It's no different than Malkin being an elite 1C. Just because Pittsburgh already has one, doesn't mean he's only a 2C.

Your argument is kind of ridiculous if that's how you judge things. If Karlsson gets traded to Tampa, he's no longer a #1D because they already have Hedman!

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Are you really trying to suggest that Vlasic is not a #1 D? Really?

How is it ludicrous to have two #1 Ds?

Nashville and Carolina also fit this mold with Josi and Subban, Slavin and Hamilton.

Vlasic is not a #1. Go poll it if you disagree and care to see the public opinion

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Uh? Nashville has 2, or do you think just because Josi plays on a team with Subban that means he's no longer good enough to be a #1?

It's no different than Malkin being an elite 1C. Just because Pittsburgh already has one, doesn't mean he's only a 2C.

Your argument is kind of ridiculous if that's how you judge things. If Karlsson gets traded to Tampa, he's no longer a #1D because they already have Hedman!

Lmao so your examples are ACTUAL #1s for the very few occasions it happens. Yes Nashville has two #1s and Malkin is a #1

Your arguments so far are pretty terrible. Explain to me how Krug, Werenski, and Vlasic are anywhere near Subban and Josi

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Lmao so your examples are ACTUAL #1s for the very few occasions it happens. Yes Nashville has two #1s and Malkin is a #1

Your arguments so far are pretty terrible. Explain to me how Krug, Werenski, and Vlasic are anywhere near Subban and Josi

Where did I say they were?

Again, you're the one that seems to have difficulty separating guys who are ELITE #1D (Subban and the like) from those who are simply mid to low end #1D (Krug, Werenski, Vlasic). You seem to think that unless a defenseman is on par with the top 5 defensemen in hockey, then they're not 1D.

Your argument is just as flawed as if I asked you to list the 30 1Cs (which you never did) and when you list a guy like Eric Staal, me saying, "LOL you think Staal is as good as McDavid?".

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Where did I say they were?

Again, you're the one that seems to have difficulty separating guys who are ELITE #1D (Subban and the like) from those who are simply mid to low end #1D (Krug, Werenski, Vlasic). You seem to think that unless a defenseman is on par with the top 5 defensemen in hockey, then they're not 1D.

Your argument is just as flawed as if I asked you to list the 30 1Cs (which you never did) and when you list a guy like Eric Staal, me saying, "LOL you think Staal is as good as McDavid?".

No the premise that is flawed is you thinking Krug, Vlasic, and Werenski are 1Ds

 

[CraigsList]

I am a huge fan in Provorov and think he is the better player than Barzal.

But, for this poll I voted on what the Flames need, and they need an explosive center like Barzal.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Barzal is better, but poll asks who i rather have, and leafs badly need defence, so i choose Prov.

 

[Puckstuff]

Brazal was the steal of the 2015 NHL draft. However; I went with Provorov. Provorov may be a top 5 defensmn in the NHL; and maybe top 3; and he could win a Norris trophy.

I think Barzal has potential to be a top 5 center in the NHL; and Provorov has the potential to be a top 5 defensmen. I think it will come down to team need a lot of the time. My edge is Provorov because my team has Matthews and Tavares but if my team was Montreal or San Jose; I may be picking Barzal here.

I really like both players a lot. Electric.

 

[Ducks in a row]

For the Ducks we need forward help for are future so Barzal