JimEIV
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2003
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I would say that he's the best right now, but not all time.
how many wins left until he passes Roy?
547 + 5 = 552
I personally feel the shutout record is much larger than the win records.
I would say that he's the best right now, but not all time.
how many wins left until he passes Roy?
I personally feel the shutout record is much larger than the win records.
I think that is pretty significant that GM's felt Roy was better only 2 times in the 11 years they played together.
Brodeur finishes ahead of Roy 9 of 11 seasons in Vezina voting and it that does mean anything to you? And the first time it happened Brodeur was a Rookie, so the only real time was 2001
I think Brodeur is easily overrated by people that just look purely at numbers and rarely if ever watch a game of hockey. But pretty much anyone that watched the three play and isnt a raging Devils homer will tell you Hasek and Roy were a clearly step above.
The shutout record is much more era-dependant than the win record.
The shutout record is much more era-dependant than the win record.
Growing up in Upstate NY, I've watched most of the Sabres games since I was a kid, and I would rate Hasek a step above Brodeur. On the other hand, I would not say that Brodeur or Roy was better than than the other.
And I would say that on the same argument, Brodeur is also underrated by the people who look at the numbers rather than his play. It's not just his ability to stop the puck. People see that he faced lower shot totals and take away "points" from him, but often fail to realize that his puck-handling ability prevents a lot of time spent in the defensive zone, and probably 5-10 shots per game on average, depending on the quality of the opposition. Even with the trapezoid in place, it still applies, although to a lesser extent. I think that even a lot of Devils fans looked past this, simply because we had gotten so accustomed to it over the years. The injury and subsequent return re-opened our eyes.
but often fail to realize that his puck-handling ability prevents a lot of time spent in the defensive zone, and probably 5-10 shots per game on average, depending on the quality of the opposition.
And during that "dead puck era" Roy was never much for shutouts....
The two years Roy had more shutouts happen to be the same two years he finished a head of Brodeur in Vezina voting.
And this is on a Colorado Team with a Norris Trophy winner - New Jersey had No Norris to that point -- A Hart Trophy winner New Jersey never had a Hart Trophy winner....Compare
Edit Sorry it was three times
1993–94 7
1994–95 1
1995–96 1
1995–96 1
1996–97 7
1997–98 4
1998–99 5
1999–00 2
2000–01 4
2001–02 9
2002–03 5
Broduer during the same time
1993-94 3 *Rookie season
1994-95 3
1995-96 6
1996-97 10
1997-98 10
1998-99 4
1999-00 6
2000-01 9
2001-02 4
2002-03 9
And again, you're wasting a lot of energy on something that realy isn't that important. besides being era-dependent, shutouts are a lot easier to come by when you face less shots per game than everyone else.
Not only that, but the quality of shots he's faced has been the weakest. His Devils have given the opposition, by far, fewer pp opportunities than other teams throughout his career.
Brodeur literally stole the 2001 cup from his teammates and handed it to Roy. Is that what you mean?
I think Brodeur is easily overrated by people that just look purely at numbers and rarely if ever watch a game of hockey. But pretty much anyone that watched the three play and isnt a raging Devils homer will tell you Hasek and Roy were a clearly step above.
Brodeur is a clear cut hall of famer and a top 5 goalie of all time, he just happened to play in the shadow of two greater goalies. I see no shame in that. Just like there's no shame Gretzky's scoring overshadowed many other great players.
Actually, based on his backups' numbers, we have determined that Brodeur is responsible for preventing about 0.65 shots against per game. The rest is just pure NJ system at work.
Brodeur's backups over his career havent faced any significantly more shots per game than he did, which leads me to believe his puck handling ability while a significant factor, didnt prevent as as much as 5-10 shots. I believe when it was looked at the actual average was about 3 or so.
How is Brodeur CLEARLY overrated yet a top 5 all time goalie? Sorry but the gap is not that wide. He took many mediocre Devils teams constantly to the playoffs who should have finished near the bottom in the East several times, with the exception of the Stanley Cup teams.
Thanks for the correction.
And again, you're wasting a lot of energy on something that realy isn't that important. besides being era-dependent, shutouts are a lot easier to come by when you face less shots per game than everyone else.
Not only that, but the quality of shots he's faced has been the weakest. His Devils have given the opposition, by far, fewer pp opportunities than other teams throughout his career.
Which seasons are you referring to?
How is Brodeur CLEARLY overrated yet a top 5 all time goalie? Sorry but the gap is not that wide. He took many mediocre Devils teams constantly to the playoffs who should have finished near the bottom in the East several times, with the exception of the Stanley Cup teams.
No problem. There can be other factors at work too, like the backups facing weaker teams which may account for 1-2 more shots per game in the aggregate. I'd say the true difference, all things being equal, would be 1-2 shots in total.
Really? Near the bottom in the East several times? Why do you have to beat up your team to promote Brodeur? I think Brodeur's been a good goalie, but New Jersey has been a good to excellent team the whole time he's been there.
If you replaced Brodeur on those teams with Olaf Kolzig, for example, I don't think the Devils ever come close to missing the playoffs, let alone near the bottom in the East.
Really? Near the bottom in the East several times? Why do you have to beat up your team to promote Brodeur? I think Brodeur's been a good goalie, but New Jersey has been a good to excellent team the whole time he's been there.
If you replaced Brodeur on those teams with Olaf Kolzig, for example, I don't think the Devils ever come close to missing the playoffs, let alone near the bottom in the East.
Really? Near the bottom in the East several times? Why do you have to beat up your team to promote Brodeur? I think Brodeur's been a good goalie, but New Jersey has been a good to excellent team the whole time he's been there.
The shot differential is not that great considering there is a cross era variable.
Brodeur career 25 shots per game/981 games -- 24574 shots
Roy career 27.5 shot per game/1029 games -- 28357 Shots
So you are claiming the 2.5 shots per game equate to 34 more shutouts in 48 less games?
Agreed...<b>New Jersey has been a winning team Every year Brodeur has been there.</b> In fact, the win over Philly yesterday marked the 17th straight season that NJ has been over .500 for the year...During that time they missed the playoffs once and they missed with a very good record (for missing the playoffs 82 37 33 12 0 0 86 0.524) ...
That being said I don't understand why Brodeur's accomplishment are consistantly diminished because of the team he plays on.