Speculation: Maroon to STL + Gunnarson

[CaliforniaBlues310]

not sure why any blues fan would be excited about a patrick maroon.

It is like every offseason, people lash out if anyone tries to say, "well we've tried this before."

Once a victim, forever victimized. LGB

It all depends on the contract to me. If it’s cheap, I’m more than okay with it. We need quality depth, and the average fan will love him. Army is clearly going for a cup, IMO.

 

[BA Carroll]

You do realize that Steen is a Left wing slotted to play the right side correct?

As it stands we have Fabbri/Steen/Schwartz down the right. The plan is to have Thomas center oreilly and Tarasenko by December. There's your 4th left wing. Not to mention Jaskin or Sanford or others.

Why do we need to add size when our team in general is fairy big?

BS. Exactly none of Fabbri, Steen or Schwartz are "slotted" to play the right side. While they all three undoubtedly could, they all three shoot left, and all three have been consistently used on the left.

Perron, as a right shooting LW, is the only question mark.

If we moved Steen and signed Maroon, we would have Schwartz, Fabbri, Maroon, Blais and Sanford on the Left; Schenn, O'Reilly, Bozak and Thomas in the middle; and Tarasenko, Kyrou, Perron, Jaskin and Soshnikov on the left.

 

[Dbrownss]

BS. Exactly none of Fabbri, Steen or Schwartz are "slotted" to play the right side. While they all three undoubtedly could, they all three shoot left, and all three have been consistently used on the left.

Perron, as a right shooting LW, is the only question mark.

If we moved Steen and signed Maroon, we would have Schwartz, Fabbri, Maroon, Blais and Sanford on the Left; Schenn, O'Reilly, Bozak and Thomas in the middle; and Tarasenko, Kyrou, Perron, Jaskin and Soshnikov on the left.

Why are we downgrading Steen to Maroon?

 

[David Dennison]

It all depends on the contract to me. If it’s cheap, I’m more than okay with it. We need quality depth, and the average fan will love him. Army is clearly going for a cup, IMO.

Id rather have someone who smart hockey fans love.

Anything longer than two years for Maroon is a mistake, IMO.​

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Id rather have someone who smart hockey fans love.

Anything longer than two years for Maroon is a mistake, IMO.​

I mean me too, and I agree.

 

[BA Carroll]

Why are we downgrading Steen to Maroon?

We aren't. If we dealt Steen and signed Maroon, it would be because others on the roster have taken over Steen's role. If that were to happen, it would be because we need more of what Maroon brings. The benefit of adding Maroon is independent of the benefit of keeping or dealing Steen.

I would not argue who has more talent between Steen and Maroon. They are very different players, who bring very different things to the table.


I'm not slamming Steen. He's a fantastic two way forward who, as others have noted, does a lot of little things very well. I particularly appreciate his mastery of the reverse hit. But Steen is redundant on this roster. And he's (arguably) on the decline. His performance has decreased in inverse proportion to his ice time. And he's (allegedly) got a personal beef with the captain, and (supposedly) an attitude issue.


I can't knock him for not getting along with Pietrangelo--because I'm not the biggest fan either. But the negative attitude has been apparent in his body language over the last couple seasons--which is the biggest reason I think he'd be open to being dealt, as long as it was to the right team.


Personally, whether we sign Maroon or not, I think Steen needs to go. Even if it were the case that management wanted to "replace" Steen with Maroon, I'm not so sure that it's a "downgrade". I think their offensive output will be comparable this season. For all that Maroon is knocked for being slow, Steen isn't that fast a skater, either. And while it's not universally agreed upon that adding a big body to the lineup will help solve our PP woes, it certainly can't hurt.

 

[48g90a138pts]

If Maroon is told you'll be nothing more than a fourth fourth liner in St. Louis I doubt he signs with them. Pat doesn't consider himself anywhere near being a fourth liner.

Where he wants to play and where he ends up are two different things. Neither the Oilers or Blues have cap room for him atm.

 

[Dbrownss]

We aren't. If we dealt Steen and signed Maroon, it would be because others on the roster have taken over Steen's role. If that were to happen, it would be because we need more of what Maroon brings. The benefit of adding Maroon is independent of the benefit of keeping or dealing Steen.

I would not argue who has more talent between Steen and Maroon. They are very different players, who bring very different things to the table.


I'm not slamming Steen. He's a fantastic two way forward who, as others have noted, does a lot of little things very well. I particularly appreciate his mastery of the reverse hit. But Steen is redundant on this roster. And he's (arguably) on the decline. His performance has decreased in inverse proportion to his ice time. And he's (allegedly) got a personal beef with the captain, and (supposedly) an attitude issue.


I can't knock him for not getting along with Pietrangelo--because I'm not the biggest fan either. But the negative attitude has been apparent in his body language over the last couple seasons--which is the biggest reason I think he'd be open to being dealt, as long as it was to the right team.


Personally, whether we sign Maroon or not, I think Steen needs to go. Even if it were the case that management wanted to "replace" Steen with Maroon, I'm not so sure that it's a "downgrade". I think their offensive output will be comparable this season. For all that Maroon is knocked for being slow, Steen isn't that fast a skater, either. And while it's not universally agreed upon that adding a big body to the lineup will help solve our PP woes, it certainly can't hurt.

What in the world is all of this?

 

[BA Carroll]

What in the world is all of this?

It's called an opinion. Oddly enough, if you look hard, you might even discover other ones that differ from your own.

 

[Evocable Manager]

It's called an opinion. Oddly enough, if you look hard, you might even discover other ones that differ from your own.

Where's his alleged beef with Petro? Source? Or is this some conspiracy?

It should be duly noted that opinions can be stupid. If we read your post earlier, that's a perfect example of a stupid opinion.

 

[BleedBlue14]

We aren't. If we dealt Steen and signed Maroon, it would be because others on the roster have taken over Steen's role. If that were to happen, it would be because we need more of what Maroon brings. The benefit of adding Maroon is independent of the benefit of keeping or dealing Steen.

I would not argue who has more talent between Steen and Maroon. They are very different players, who bring very different things to the table.


I'm not slamming Steen. He's a fantastic two way forward who, as others have noted, does a lot of little things very well. I particularly appreciate his mastery of the reverse hit. But Steen is redundant on this roster. And he's (arguably) on the decline. His performance has decreased in inverse proportion to his ice time. And he's (allegedly) got a personal beef with the captain, and (supposedly) an attitude issue.


I can't knock him for not getting along with Pietrangelo--because I'm not the biggest fan either. But the negative attitude has been apparent in his body language over the last couple seasons--which is the biggest reason I think he'd be open to being dealt, as long as it was to the right team.


Personally, whether we sign Maroon or not, I think Steen needs to go. Even if it were the case that management wanted to "replace" Steen with Maroon, I'm not so sure that it's a "downgrade". I think their offensive output will be comparable this season. For all that Maroon is knocked for being slow, Steen isn't that fast a skater, either. And while it's not universally agreed upon that adding a big body to the lineup will help solve our PP woes, it certainly can't hurt.

Who the he'll I see Steen redundant with aside from Tarasenko except worse?

There is no rift between Pietrangelo and Steen. That's a false narrative made up to cover up how horrible our offense and Yeo was on the pp. I doubt Steen would be open to a trade outside of anyone but WPG in which case it's counter productive.

Maroon is not a replacement for Steen. Steen can play anywhere, Maroon is a net front guy to provide a different element to a line with superstars on it. Thinking they are anywhere near comparable is ludicrous. We have big bodies. Bozak is a net front guy. Steen can be a net front guy. Schwartz has made a living scoring goals in front of the net. As well as being unbelievable in the corner holding on to the puck. The powerplay issue is caused by everyone staring at 91 with the puck and not moving at all. As well as Mike Yeo.

 

[Dbrownss]

It's called an opinion. Oddly enough, if you look hard, you might even discover other ones that differ from your own.

Dude, you accused Steen of having a problem with Pietrangelo. That's not an opinion.

If the Blues move Steen and sign Maroon....that's downgrading Steen to Maroon. You say others take Steens role, who is that? Why not just lessen Steen's role and pass on Maroon, because no matter how you try and paint that picture....He's worse then Steen.

 

[BlueDream]

Where's his alleged beef with Petro? Source? Or is this some conspiracy?

It should be duly noted that opinions can be stupid. If we read your post earlier, that's a perfect example of a stupid opinion.

I always find it funny how Steen is constantly in the rumor mill about alleged "beef" with teammates. You had Oshie and Tarasenko in the past (both were BS) and now this about Petro.

Even though half the team took time out of their schedule to travel to Sweden for his wedding last year and they all rave about him as a teammate. I also once knew a source that worked for the team that said he was one of the best guys in the room. And the guy has worn an 'A' for us forever.

There are certainly some fans that seem to have this huge agenda against Steen though. It's pretty odd.

 

[BlueDream]

So if we have eight NHL defensemen (and I currently disagree with that assertion) and Gunnarsson is a #6 (another assertion I disagree with) than he clearly should be in the lineup. You also fail to talk about his PK abilities and Bouwmeester being pretty fragile with that bad hip and that he is a perfect guy to pair up with a young puck mover like Dunn or Parayko. Until Bouwmeester is 100% healthy I would do something like Petro-Edmundson, Parayko-Gunnarsson as our top four and, if I remember correctly they played their best hockey recently in these pairings.

So you don't think Schmaltz is good enough to be a bottom pairing or extra guy? And what's your argument that Gunnarsson is better than 6th? I'd love to hear that.

The point is, Gunnarsson and Bortuzzo are pretty close. if you are going to keep one as the #6 OR put one in the press box so Schmaltz can get playing time, it makes a ton more sense to keep the guy who is 3 years younger and cheaper. That's just common sense. Bortuzzo also provides an element that most of the other d-men don't have. Gunnarsson provides nothing that is unique.

And putting Gunnarsson in the top 4 over Dunn is a great way to make the team worse.

P.S. Also keep in mind that if you are arguing to trade Bouwmeester over Gunnarsson, I'd be completely fine with that. However I just don't think that's going to happen, which is why I'm going with this plan instead.

 

[stl76]

So if we have eight NHL defensemen (and I currently disagree with that assertion) and Gunnarsson is a #6 (another assertion I disagree with) than he clearly should be in the lineup. You also fail to talk about his PK abilities and Bouwmeester being pretty fragile with that bad hip and that he is a perfect guy to pair up with a young puck mover like Dunn or Parayko. Until Bouwmeester is 100% healthy I would do something like Petro-Edmundson, Parayko-Gunnarsson as our top four and, if I remember correctly they played their best hockey recently in these pairings.

Wait...what PK abilities? Gunnarsson is not particularly good on the PK, he is passable at best IMO. The only times Carl Gunnarson has ever played on the Blues top PK unit have been because better PKers were injured. If Bouwmeester and Edmundson are healthy, Gunnarson should get virtually zero shTOI per game.

Personally, I would MUCH rather have Bouwmeester out killing an important penalty. Unlike Gunnarson, Bouwmeester is actually quite good on the PK.

 

[ohbabyblues]

Dude, you accused Steen of having a problem with Pietrangelo. That's not an opinion.

If the Blues move Steen and sign Maroon....that's downgrading Steen to Maroon. You say others take Steens role, who is that? Why not just lessen Steen's role and pass on Maroon, because no matter how you try and paint that picture....He's worse then Steen.

He actually didn't accuse Steen of anything. If you read, you'll see. He said: "And he's (allegedly) got a personal beef with the captain, and (supposedly) an attitude issue."

Also, Maroon would not replace Steen. He's a totally different hockey player and with different hockey intangibles than Steen, as has been discussed.

The argument is that Ryan O'Reilly replaces Steen's 2-way play, Which isn't nearly as needed as a cheap goal scorer, which Maroon has proved to be given the right circumstances.

Maroon would slot in as a PP presence, front net-body that the team lacks and would contribute offensively, while O'Reilly, Schwartz and Schenn, Thomas, Jaskin (to lesser extents) contribute two-way play.

 

[The Note in MI]

Steens contract is immovable. Pointless narrative.

JR just said that Maroon is expected to sign with the Blues as early as today but term and AAV are unknown. He isn’t a replacement, he’s increased depth IMO.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I’m curious how the Blues are signing Maroon and Edmundson with 5 mil in cap space.

 

[ohbabyblues]

 

[ohbabyblues]

seems Maroon is heading home to StL!

 

[kimzey59]

Who the he'll I see Steen redundant with aside from Tarasenko except worse?

There is no rift between Pietrangelo and Steen. That's a false narrative made up to cover up how horrible our offense and Yeo was on the pp. I doubt Steen would be open to a trade outside of anyone but WPG in which case it's counter productive.

Maroon is not a replacement for Steen. Steen can play anywhere, Maroon is a net front guy to provide a different element to a line with superstars on it. Thinking they are anywhere near comparable is ludicrous. We have big bodies. Bozak is a net front guy. Steen can be a net front guy. Schwartz has made a living scoring goals in front of the net. As well as being unbelievable in the corner holding on to the puck. The powerplay issue is caused by everyone staring at 91 with the puck and not moving at all. As well as Mike Yeo.

Not that I think Steen is actually available, but your evaluations of our players is way off.
Bozak and Schwartz are absolutely not "net front guys". They are "corners and board work" guys are are very much geared towards being playmakers rather than finishers.

Steen has the willingness to play a net front game(Steen does anything he's asked to do), but he's not overly good at it. He's another guy that is better on the boards and in the corners.
And I find it odd that you didn't mention Perron. Perron is by far our most effective net front guy right now, but he's already come out and said that he prefers to work the walls.

The Blues have 2 guys that can be put in a net front role in a pinch in Steen and Perron. But neither player is overly good at it and neither player particularly wants that role. The Blues absolutely need a real Net Front guy and have since Backes/Brouwer left.

 

[67Blues]

Are they going to put Maroon in a "break glass in case of emergency" type box? I don't see where he fits in the line up and cap wise. They need to take care of Eddy first and worry about the rest later. Maybe Army has a trade cooking, but I don't see any value to assets that Maroon could replace to other teams. Those are low salaried, fourth line guys who most teams have in spades.

 

[BA Carroll]

Are they going to put Maroon in a "break glass in case of emergency" type box? I don't see where he fits in the line up and cap wise. They need to take care of Eddy first and worry about the rest later. Maybe Army has a trade cooking, but I don't see any value to assets that Maroon could replace to other teams. Those are low salaried, fourth line guys who most teams have in spades.

Some considerations:
-They may be worried about Fabbri's durability.
-Steen may have requested a trade.
-Overcompensating for lack of quality depth last season.
-Ownership seems bent on stacking the roster.
-Management may have already decided that Kyrou will start the season in San Antonio.
-They may be working a bridge deal for Edmundson (stupid, yes).

I don't know that any of that is true, just trying to read between the lines.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Some considerations:
-They may be worried about Fabbri's durability.
-Steen may have requested a trade.
-Overcompensating for lack of quality depth last season.
-Ownership seems bent on stacking the roster.
-Management may have already decided that Kyrou will start the season in San Antonio.
-They may be working a bridge deal for Edmundson (stupid, yes).

I don't know that any of that is true, just trying to read between the lines.

Please link your sources. Where's his beef with Petro? Problems with management?

You can't make a claim like this without any external source...

 

[BA Carroll]

Who the he'll I see Steen redundant with aside from Tarasenko except worse?

There is no rift between Pietrangelo and Steen. That's a false narrative made up to cover up how horrible our offense and Yeo was on the pp. I doubt Steen would be open to a trade outside of anyone but WPG in which case it's counter productive.

Maroon is not a replacement for Steen. Steen can play anywhere, Maroon is a net front guy to provide a different element to a line with superstars on it. Thinking they are anywhere near comparable is ludicrous. We have big bodies. Bozak is a net front guy. Steen can be a net front guy. Schwartz has made a living scoring goals in front of the net. As well as being unbelievable in the corner holding on to the puck. The powerplay issue is caused by everyone staring at 91 with the puck and not moving at all. As well as Mike Yeo.

As others have noted, there are several two-way players on the team now who can play Steen's role. That makes him redundant. Shall I list these players for you? Fine. O'Reilly, Perron, and Bozak have made Steen expendable.

I never said there was a rift, I said there was an alleged rift. If reading is hard for you, perhaps you should find another hobby besides surfing internet forums.

There are plenty of reasons why Steen might waive his trade protections, but since none of us are old drinking buddies with him, it's likely we'll never know. But just because someone poses speculation you don't like, doesn't constitute a free pass for snarkiness. Go be rude to someone else.

Again, I do not think of Maroon as a "replacement" for Steen. I think Steen has already been replaced. The addition of Maroon is just icing on the cake. In any event, none of the players you mentioned are particularly good at causing havoc in front of the net. Perron has a knack for it, but that takes a toll, and it is far better that he not take that sort of punishment during the regular season.

I will agree with your diagnosis of the power play, but that problem was very likely addressed in the acquisitions we've made in the last week.