Speculation: Maroon to STL + Gunnarson

[steinerecliner]

You're equating Sobotka with Maroon?

Sobotka has never come close to scoring at Maroon's level

Maroon is better, You have a guy who scoreed 17 goals last year in Maroon verses a guy who scored 11. 43 points total vs 31. So yes Maroon is better. Plus he has the big body that the team lacks. So yeah I see the reason.

I see the lines as this.

1. Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko
2. Steen O'Rielly Fabbri
3. Perron Brozak Jaskin
4 . Maroon Barbashev Soshnikov (Or Thornburn in) Sundqvist as a Center rotation.

This is as it stands. Now if Thomas makes the team I see him in Jaskin's spot or Fabbri. Depends on how Fabbri is in camp and pre Season. Since Thomas is a Center or RW and so is Kryou. The Depth of having scoring would be a plus. I know people will say that's to much for 4th liner but it was two seasons ago the forth line was one of the better lines and saw a lot of minutes. Perron and Maroon could flip flop as we all know line change through out the year.

 

[ohbabyblues]

Sobotka is much better defensively, even the new "skill-based" Sobotka. He has worse offensive stats, but he also wasn't on a line with the likes of Getzlaf-Perry and McDavid-Draisaitl like maroon has. When Sobotka was between Tarasenko and Schwartz (young, less established versions), he put up 40+ point pace which is what Maroon does when paired with superstars. Maroon on our 4th line with Barbashev and Soshnikov/Jaskin will be worse than Sobotka.

I too was once excited with Sobotka, but his return from the KHL has left a lot to be desired. It's possible he never wanted to return to StL, and with that, possible that he would play better.
But as it stands today, Maroon is a much better player.

 

[BA Carroll]

Maroon is better, You have a guy who scoreed 17 goals last year in Maroon verses a guy who scored 11. 43 points total vs 31. So yes Maroon is better. Plus he has the big body that the team lacks. So yeah I see the reason.

I see the lines as this.

1. Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko
2. Steen O'Rielly Fabbri
3. Perron Brozak Jaskin
4 . Maroon Barbashev Soshnikov (Or Thornburn in) Sundqvist as a Center rotation.

This is as it stands. Now if Thomas makes the team I see him in Jaskin's spot or Fabbri. Depends on how Fabbri is in camp and pre Season. Since Thomas is a Center or RW and so is Kryou. The Depth of having scoring would be a plus. I know people will say that's to much for 4th liner but it was two seasons ago the forth line was one of the better lines and saw a lot of minutes. Perron and Maroon could flip flop as we all know line change through out the year.

If we sign Maroon, I see the lines shaking out, at least to start the year, as:

Schwartz--Schenn--Kyrou
Steen(Blais)--O'Reilly--Tarasenko
Maroon--Bozak--Perron
Fabbri--Thomas--Jaskin
Sanford/Blais/Sosh as extras, Kostin 1st callup.

Edmundson--Pietrangelo
Dunn--Parayko
Bouwmeester--Bortuzzo
Mikkola extra.

Steen I would package with Schmaltz and send to WPG for Logan Stanley.

Allen I would package with Barbashev to DET for Jimmy Howard.

Gunnarsson and Thorburn I would move wherever (CAR maybe?) for picks.

That leaves almost $4M in cap space, after giving Eddie his raise.

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (14)
Right wing: J. Kyrou ($758,333) - V. Tarasenko ($7,500,000) - D. Perron ($4,000,000) - D. Jaskin ($1,125,000) - N. Soshnikov ($800,000)
Centre: B. Schenn ($5,125,000) - R. O'Reilly ($7,500,000) - T. Bozak ($5,000,000) - R. Thomas ($894,166)
Left wing: J. Schwartz ($5,350,000) - S. Blais ($673,333) - P. Maroon ($3,250,000) - R. Fabbri ($925,000) - Z. Sanford ($875,000)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: A. Pietrangelo ($6,500,000) - C. Parayko ($5,500,000) - R. Bortuzzo ($1,150,000)
Left: J. Edmundson ($4,500,000) - V. Dunn ($722,500) - J. Bouwmeester ($5,400,000) - N. Mikkola ($842,500)

GOALTENDER (2)
J. Howard ($5,291,666) - C. Johnson ($1,750,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 23
NHL Salary Cap: $79,500,000
Bonus Overages: $150,988
Cap Hit: $75,583,486
Cap Space: $3,916,514

 

[ohbabyblues]

Maroon is better, You have a guy who scoreed 17 goals last year in Maroon verses a guy who scored 11. 43 points total vs 31. So yes Maroon is better. Plus he has the big body that the team lacks. So yeah I see the reason.

I see the lines as this.

1. Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko
2. Steen O'Rielly Fabbri
3. Perron Brozak Jaskin
4 . Maroon Barbashev Soshnikov (Or Thornburn in) Sundqvist as a Center rotation.

This is as it stands. Now if Thomas makes the team I see him in Jaskin's spot or Fabbri. Depends on how Fabbri is in camp and pre Season. Since Thomas is a Center or RW and so is Kryou. The Depth of having scoring would be a plus. I know people will say that's to much for 4th liner but it was two seasons ago the forth line was one of the better lines and saw a lot of minutes. Perron and Maroon could flip flop as we all know line change through out the year.

 

[trevorftw]

Ah, I get what you're saying. You're assuming that a Maroon signing would come with moving out Bouwmeester or Gunnarsson.

But if that's the case, I don't see why it makes more sense to have Maroon under contract and scratched than it does to have Gunnarsson under contract and scratched. Unless you're also assuming that Maroon is signed for less money than Gunnarsson is currently making, which is definitely not a certainty.

Yeah. I definitely don't want him in here at more than 3m aav.

 

[Majorityof1]

Maroon is better, You have a guy who scoreed 17 goals last year in Maroon verses a guy who scored 11. 43 points total vs 31. So yes Maroon is better. Plus he has the big body that the team lacks. So yeah I see the reason.

I too was once excited with Sobotka, but his return from the KHL has left a lot to be desired. It's possible he never wanted to return to StL, and with that, possible that he would play better.
But as it stands today, Maroon is a much better player.

I am not excited for Sobotka. I am glad he is gone. The point was not that Sobotka is good, but instead that Maroon is equally useless. Blues fans clamor to get rid of one over-paid useless guy and then turn around and want another overpaid useless guy. Let the kids develop in sheltered roles. They will be cheaper and have the upside to be much better. You will be disappointment in Maroon as well if you don't temper expectations if he signs with us. Put Sobotka on a line with McDavid and Drasaitl or prime Perry and Getzlaf and he'd have a bunch of points too. Rattie was going at a 50+ point pace in Maroon's place after he was traded. Small sample size, but its telling for how good those two are they can make Rattie successful. Rattie is a guy who was waived by multiple teams. Look further than the back of a hockey card when analyzing players. Maroon is not good.

 

[trevorftw]

I wouldn't call him useless, but I certainly don't want to see the blues overpay when they have the very affordable Soshnikov with a similar skill set. 2.5m with a short term makes sense to me.

 

[Dbrownss]

Maroon is better, You have a guy who scoreed 17 goals last year in Maroon verses a guy who scored 11. 43 points total vs 31. So yes Maroon is better. Plus he has the big body that the team lacks. So yeah I see the reason.

I see the lines as this.

1. Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko
2. Steen O'Rielly Fabbri
3. Perron Brozak Jaskin
4 . Maroon Barbashev Soshnikov (Or Thornburn in) Sundqvist as a Center rotation.

This is as it stands. Now if Thomas makes the team I see him in Jaskin's spot or Fabbri. Depends on how Fabbri is in camp and pre Season. Since Thomas is a Center or RW and so is Kryou. The Depth of having scoring would be a plus. I know people will say that's to much for 4th liner but it was two seasons ago the forth line was one of the better lines and saw a lot of minutes. Perron and Maroon could flip flop as we all know line change through out the year.

Maroon isnt touching anything close to that playing in the 4th line with Barbashev and Sosh. He's not good enough to displace anyone in the top 9 outside of injury

 

[steinerecliner]

I wouldn't call him useless, but I certainly don't want to see the blues overpay when they have the very affordable Soshnikov with a similar skill set. 2.5m with a short term makes sense to me.

You camparing a LWer to a RWer. Soshnikov is a RW. Maroon is a LW. If the only two teams he wants to be with is STL or Edmonton. He could end up being one of those if someone gets hurt in the pre season, you have the backup plan with him. Now I doubt he will still be there by pre seaso.

 

[trevorftw]

You camparing a LWer to a RWer. Soshnikov is a RW. Maroon is a LW. If the only two teams he wants to be with is STL or Edmonton. He could end up being one of those if someone gets hurt in the pre season, you have the backup plan with him. Now I doubt he will still be there by pre seaso.

I was comparing their roles, not which side they play. Btw, I think RW is more of a need than LW if you do want to compare.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Because we already have 7 NHL defensemen without him. Why would we carry 8? Paying Gunnar almost 3 mil when we don’t need him makes no sense so he should be moved. He is at best a #6 defenseman on the roster.

So if we have eight NHL defensemen (and I currently disagree with that assertion) and Gunnarsson is a #6 (another assertion I disagree with) than he clearly should be in the lineup. You also fail to talk about his PK abilities and Bouwmeester being pretty fragile with that bad hip and that he is a perfect guy to pair up with a young puck mover like Dunn or Parayko. Until Bouwmeester is 100% healthy I would do something like Petro-Edmundson, Parayko-Gunnarsson as our top four and, if I remember correctly they played their best hockey recently in these pairings.

 

[rumrokh]

So if we have eight NHL defensemen (and I currently disagree with that assertion) and Gunnarsson is a #6 (another assertion I disagree with) than he clearly should be in the lineup. You also fail to talk about his PK abilities and Bouwmeester being pretty fragile with that bad hip and that he is a perfect guy to pair up with a young puck mover like Dunn or Parayko. Until Bouwmeester is 100% healthy I would do something like Petro-Edmundson, Parayko-Gunnarsson as our top four and, if I remember correctly they played their best hockey recently in these pairings.

Why is Bouwmeester fragile and unhealthy, but Gunnarsson isn't? Was there some kind of report about their surgeries that indicates Gunnarsson will be farther along than Bouwmeester will be at the start of camp?

 

[Falco Lombardi]

So if we have eight NHL defensemen (and I currently disagree with that assertion) and Gunnarsson is a #6 (another assertion I disagree with) than he clearly should be in the lineup. You also fail to talk about his PK abilities and Bouwmeester being pretty fragile with that bad hip and that he is a perfect guy to pair up with a young puck mover like Dunn or Parayko. Until Bouwmeester is 100% healthy I would do something like Petro-Edmundson, Parayko-Gunnarsson as our top four and, if I remember correctly they played their best hockey recently in these pairings.

There’s no chance that Carl Gunnarsson is playing top 4 minutes over Vince Dunn

 

[ChuckLefley]

There’s no chance that Carl Gunnarsson is playing top 4 minutes over Vince Dunn

If you include PK time, than maybe, but if your simply talking about putting together the best 5 on 5 D pairings, than there is a very big chance.

Why is Bouwmeester fragile and unhealthy, but Gunnarsson isn't? Was there some kind of report about their surgeries that indicates Gunnarsson will be farther along than Bouwmeester will be at the start of camp?

Bouwmeester hasn’t been fully healthy since the ‘14-‘15 season. His is lingering issues with his hip. Most of Gunnarsson’s issue have been single injuries that have healed. I’ll takr an impact injury, like his ACL injury over a chronic issue any day. I’ll also add that Bouwmeester is three years older with nearly twice as many games played.

 

[simon IC]

That's irrelevant. Blues are ready to move on from both of those players. The difference is, J-Bo's contract is substantially harder to move. Gunnarsson could be dealt today, assuming he's healthy.

We are likely stuck with J-Bo until after Christmas, at least, regardless of whether he's slow as Lehtera or not. But that's not necessarily a given. Whatever else he may be, Bouwmeester is a world class athlete. If his injury is healed, I have no doubt he can still be an effective player. He's just no longer the best option for the Blues, and his salary could be spent more wisely elsewhere on this team.

Thank you! I have spent a lot of time defending Bouwmeester on our sub-forum. He is a class act and does not get the respect he deserves, even if just for his past achievements. I think his career may be done, I wouldn't be surprised if he retires this year. If, (and if it's a big if), he is back to form by camp, he is a perfectly serviceable 3rd pairing D that can move up to the 2nd if needed, and contribute on the PK.

 

[simon IC]

You don't pass up signing a player like Maroon (or any player for that matter) to save a roster spot for Thorburn. C'mon man!



Gunnarsson <-> Conditional 4th? (if he plays < 41 games, 4th becomes a 6th)

I think we can get a lot more than that for Gunnarsson.

 

[sfvega]

I am not excited for Sobotka. I am glad he is gone. The point was not that Sobotka is good, but instead that Maroon is equally useless. Blues fans clamor to get rid of one over-paid useless guy and then turn around and want another overpaid useless guy. Let the kids develop in sheltered roles. They will be cheaper and have the upside to be much better. You will be disappointment in Maroon as well if you don't temper expectations if he signs with us. Put Sobotka on a line with McDavid and Drasaitl or prime Perry and Getzlaf and he'd have a bunch of points too. Rattie was going at a 50+ point pace in Maroon's place after he was traded. Small sample size, but its telling for how good those two are they can make Rattie successful. Rattie is a guy who was waived by multiple teams. Look further than the back of a hockey card when analyzing players. Maroon is not good.

To be fair, Maroon put up a pretty good scoring line in NJ and wasn't on a stacked line.

 

[HabsTown]

Habs will take cap for you!


Jay-Bo
Barbashev


David Schlemko

 

[Majorityof1]

To be fair, Maroon put up a pretty good scoring line in NJ and wasn't on a stacked line.

True. However, he did get all of his PP points, just under 1/3 of his points in NJ, with Taylor Hall. 5 of his 9 ES points were in the last two games against teams with absolutely nothing to gain trying not to get injured (Leafs and Caps). Its cherry picking, but he only had 4 points away from Taylor Hall in his first 15 games. Now I didn't watch any of those games so I don't know how good he was. I didn't see him until the playoffs where he was terrible. Although to be fair, a lot of Devils looked bad against a good Lightning team.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Neither Thomas nor Kyrou are LW, neither project to be, and signing Maroon in no way effects their opportunities to make the roster. If anything, it creates competition for Fabbri to earn a roster spot. But we don't want Fabbri playing a 4th line role anyway.

If Maroon were signed, he would have to start the season on the 4th line, and we obviously don't want to pay him the salary he wants just to have him play a 4th line role. But, while 4th line is undoubtedly where he would be, he wouldn't have a typical 4th line role for us. He would get substantially more than 4th line minutes, and he would certainly get some time on special teams.

Lack of quality depth, and lack of testosterone in general, hurt the team badly last year. I think, if management and ownership are willing to spend the money to address that, Maroon makes perfect sense.

As for him not taking less money or term, I think he has several offers on the table, but nobody else is offering what he thinks he's worth, either.

You do realize that Steen is a Left wing slotted to play the right side correct?

As it stands we have Fabbri/Steen/Schwartz down the right. The plan is to have Thomas center oreilly and Tarasenko by December. There's your 4th left wing. Not to mention Jaskin or Sanford or others.

Why do we need to add size when our team in general is fairy big?

 

[67Blues]

Habs will take cap for you!


Jay-Bo
Barbashev


David Schlemko

JBo has a full NTC, and I can't see him waiving it to go to MTL. Plus, he's off the Blues' books after this year where Schlemko has another year on his contract (although it is pretty cheap). Plus, we already have a logjam at defense, so this doesn't help. Unless this move was to clear space for Maroon, it makes no sense, and I doubt that Maroon would sign with the Blues to be a 4th liner playing 8 minutes a game with the hopes that someone in the top 9 gets injured to move up.

 

[crowi]

Highly unlikely he gets a Beleskey like contract if he’s still unsigned...

That's very true. Seems he has to accept a short deal at this point.

 

[HabsTown]

N

JBo has a full NTC, and I can't see him waiving it to go to MTL. Plus, he's off the Blues' books after this year where Schlemko has another year on his contract (although it is pretty cheap). Plus, we already have a logjam at defense, so this doesn't help. Unless this move was to clear space for Maroon, it makes no sense, and I doubt that Maroon would sign with the Blues to be a 4th liner playing 8 minutes a game with the hopes that someone in the top 9 gets injured to move up.

Yep, was aware of all that haha, just tried!

I doubt too for Jay-Bo and also offered Schlemko to send a bit of salary + he’s versatile for your lineup (plays both side).

In Habs situation, I’d think they prefer giving a depth player rather than a pick (even if it’s a 3rd and higher)

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I’d be fine with Maroon on our 4th line when completely healthy. He’ll eventually move up the lineup when injuries occur, so it’s not like he’ll be on the 4th line most of the season.

If Fabbri is healthy and himself again, and Kyrou has a camp good enough to win a roster spot, I see Yeo going for a way better version of Vegas’ 4 line attack.

Fabbri-O’Reilly-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Steen-Bozak-Perron
Maroon-Thomas-Soshnikov
Barbashev, Jaskin

 

[thedustman]

not sure why any blues fan would be excited about a patrick maroon.

It is like every offseason, people lash out if anyone tries to say, "well we've tried this before."

Once a victim, forever victimized. LGB