Speculation: Marner or Nylander?

[nuck]

Would you guys do Lindholm + 1st from ANA for Marner?

No the Leafs don't need another expensive lefty unless the intention is to move Morgs. Based on how good the Ducks fans think their D are you would think the club would had had better results Manson, Lindholm and Fowler were all not good this year. They would be selling low and the Leafs would be buying a player who has to be significantly better than this season to help them. If I am taking another club's question mark, I think I want to trade them a question mark of my own. Like the Manson talk, everyone twants to trade for the 17-18 Josh but what you are probably gwetting is the 19-20 version. Ducks are not really a good fit.

 

[ACC1224]

I also find it ironic that those who said not to trade Nylander after last season because his value was soooo low are the same lot who want to move Marner ASAP. If Nylander can redeem himself can't Marner? Asking for a friend.............

Marner doesn't have nearly as far to go for redemption either.

 

[rumman]

Marner doesn't have nearly as far to go for redemption either.

I see it that way too, but one of the big 4 going to have to be moved, if that doesn't happen next season will be just another Ground Hog Day.

I'm hoping for a miracle firing of the Prez and GM, or at the very least the GM. One can hope and you know what Red said about hope............

 

[Joey Hoser]

I make a point of not making predictions because it's silly and pointless, but I'm going to be pretty surprised if Nylander is still a Leaf when they play again.

Not blaming him for anything, it's just the obvious way to make the changes they need to make.

 

[Tak7]

When have you seen mitch drive a line without elite talent around him over anything resembling a decent sample? Mitch being better than willy with a hypothetical Kasperi kerfoot line is a dumb comparison unless you think he’s 4 million dollars better at it. He’s not.

Last season - 83% of his 94 points were primary points.

 

[karhukissa]

It's ridiculous how badly this team is built. This Columbus series showed why i dislike Nylander as a player, pretty much useless when you have tough series and you really need to win. He just floats there and kinda does something but not really. Especially 5vs5.

But unfortunately Nylander isn't enough to get defensive stud and leader (Pietrangelo tier) what this team needs the most, so i'd trade Marner.

 

[Mugzy97]

lol, what? The guy floats around the perimeter more than anyone on the team

I don't know what you're watching. He's one of the hardest working guys on the team.

 

[robertmac43]

The point I was making was that if the Leafs were unlucky, that implies that Columbus was lucky. Each ‘unlucky’ shot from the leafs turns out to be a ‘lucky bounce’ for Columbus.

The reality is that Columbus plays to take most of the luck out of the game. They purposely play in a way that controls where the shots come from, how much traffic is in front of their goaltender and how many deflections and rebounds the goalie has to deal with. They also make sure not to allow odd man rushes and breakaways. This isn’t luck, it’s executing a game plan.

I think CBJ fans would be the first to say they played great and had some luck along the way. The Leafs shot above 10% in the regular season, the Jackets played a role in cutting that in half but the Leafs also missed on some chances they would likely convert if given again.

From the posts we have exchanged my guess is we won't come to an agreement here. However my guess is we agree that regardless of what went into the loss, something needs to give, changes will need to be made.

 

[robertmac43]

Only stats that matter in the NHL are wins and losses. Everything else is just varying amounts of white noise.

The team has regressed in all the important metrics since Dubas has been named GM.

The fact that most of the underlying metrics continue to claim the Leafs are a good-great team and the on-ice results are middling at best tells me they aren't worth **** all, and my eyes agree with that. I thought they were easy to play against vs CBJ, and didn't make life difficult at all for the Columbus goaltenders. Lots of clean looks with mimimal or no traffic.

You make your own luck.

Only stats that matter in the NHL are wins and losses. Everything else is just varying amounts of white noise.

The team has regressed in all the important metrics since Dubas has been named GM.

The fact that most of the underlying metrics continue to claim the Leafs are a good-great team and the on-ice results are middling at best tells me they aren't worth **** all, and my eyes agree with that. I thought they were easy to play against vs CBJ, and didn't make life difficult at all for the Columbus goaltenders. Lots of clean looks with mimimal or no traffic.

You make your own luck.

Regressed under Dubas but has gone up since he got his coach in.

The fact that you think we, 'didn't make life difficult at all for the Columbus goaltenders' is telling. I bet Korpisalo would say otherwise, we definitely tested him a fair amount at times.

 

[AllDay28]

It's ridiculous how badly this team is built. This Columbus series showed why i dislike Nylander as a player, pretty much useless when you have tough series and you really need to win. He just floats there and kinda does something but not really. Especially 5vs5.

But unfortunately Nylander isn't enough to get defensive stud and leader (Pietrangelo tier) what this team needs the most, so i'd trade Marner.

Pietrangelo the UFA? What are you even talking about?

 

[AllDay28]

Reading these threads are great cause you bipolar fans should read your posts after game 4. Like worry about your families during covid and not a mediocre at best sport

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Marner f***ing sucked in the playoffs and he didnt look the same after the big money got sent his way. I would ditch marner asap. Send him to Buffalo for Dahlin

Thats highly unlikely to happen, this isn't NHL20 you can't just trade any player for any player. Why would Buffalo trade Dahlin for Marner? we would have to add A LOT more. I wouldn't deal within the division either.

 

[seventieslord]

Spittin nickels here. Carolina wants to move Hamilton, correct? How about Marner, Liligren, Johnnson and rights to Tyson Barrie, for Hamilton, Pesci, Stall and Carolina first. Leafs can sweeten by adding Kerfoot or Dermott.

Robertson Matthews Hyman
Soupy JT Willie
Kerfoot Stall Kapenan
73 47 19

Reilly Pesce
Muzzin Hamilton
Sandin Holl

You are moving out 14 million in salary and yes bringing in most likely aroun 16 or 17.
But you solidify the D. Puck mover and offense on each pairing. I still think Hamilton has a nice upside, and bringing him home might help. He is 6'5", Pesce is 6'3", Muzz is 6'3", Holl is 6'3"
Add Stall for third line. 6'5". Penalty kill and net fron PP presence.

Burn away!!!

why are the "rights to Tyson Barrie" worth anything?

 

[karhukissa]

Pietrangelo the UFA? What are you even talking about?

Pietrangelo tier. As in his level of a player.

 

[Subway Schenn]

Mitch is a better player (overall) than Willie but the $4M difference in contracts is a real joke. Should be paid $9M max.

Can't believe the hometown boy pulled that move - ultimately it will spell the end of him in Toronto (whether now or in a couple years, post-Dubas). Greed is an evil thing.

 

[Notsince67]

Mitch is a better player (overall) than Willie but the $4M difference in contracts is a real joke. Should be paid $9M max.

Can't believe the hometown boy pulled that move - ultimately it will spell the end of him in Toronto (whether now or in a couple years, post-Dubas). Greed is an evil thing.

Lol. He should have been offered 8.5MM before he had a 94 point season. Even the Kane contract adjusted for cap inflation was north of 10MM. If you account for Nylanders paid hold out, Nylander is overpaid around 1.2MM.

 

[Farsailor]

Lol. He should have been offered 8.5MM before he had a 94 point season. Even the Kane contract adjusted for cap inflation was north of 10MM. If you account for Nylanders paid hold out, Nylander is overpaid around 1.2MM.

Lol. Nylander over paid. Nylanders hold out almost makes sense now given what he got compared to Mitch.

 

[Notsince67]

Lol. Nylander over paid. Nylanders hold out almost makes sense now given what he got compared to Mitch.

Nylander had his time off paid for. Prorating the salary to the games left on his contract, it would mean the equivalent of 7.5MM. Not a hard concept. Based on his ELC performance, he wasn't worth more than about 6.3MM.
As for current period, do you really want to compare Marners 1st RFA year to Nylanders?
I thought not.

 

[Menzinger]

Lol. He should have been offered 8.5MM before he had a 94 point season. Even the Kane contract adjusted for cap inflation was north of 10MM. If you account for Nylanders paid hold out, Nylander is overpaid around 1.2MM.

There is zero case to be made that he should be making less than Elhers. Come on...

Marner had a career high of 8 more points over his first two seasons, compared to Nylander but he deserved that money? Nonsense. Kanes rookie and sophomore seasons were also more impressive considering league scoring was lower than when Marner started playing

 

[Menzinger]

Nylander had his time off paid for. Prorating the salary to the games left on his contract, it would mean the equivalent of 7.5MM. Not a hard concept. Based on his ELC performance, he wasn't worth more than about 6.3MM.
As for current period, do you really want to compare Marners 1st RFA year to Nylanders?
I thought not.

Not this again. Nylanders salary divides into 6.96 mil for every year of his contract. Yes he got paid for time missed, but his aav isn't 7.5, nor does he earn 7.5x6

 

[rumman]

Lol. Nylander over paid. Nylanders hold out almost makes sense now given what he got compared to Mitch.

it's cause and effect, Nylander schooled Dubas first, Mathews took note and so did Marner. You'd think the GM would learn from his mistakes, but actually got worse the more RFA's he signed, at least the top tier RFA's.

 

[ACC1224]

Lol. He should have been offered 8.5MM before he had a 94 point season. Even the Kane contract adjusted for cap inflation was north of 10MM. If you account for Nylanders paid hold out, Nylander is overpaid around 1.2MM.

Dubas turned down the 8.5 x 8 that summer.
His botched negotiation of Nylander did set the table for the rest to abuse him.

 

[Gallagbi]

Dubas turned down the 8.5 x 8 that summer.
His botched negotiation of Nylander did set the table for the rest to abuse him.

Nylander wasn't tied to Marner. His mistake was not signing Mitch early if/when it was available.

 

[LeafsNation75]

it's cause and effect, Nylander schooled Dubas first, Mathews took note and so did Marner. You'd think the GM would learn from his mistakes, but actually got worse the more RFA's he signed, at least the top tier RFA's.

I remember the report was that if Matthews was to sign for 8 years in Toronto he would have wanted $13 or $13.5 million AAV, since it would be more then Connor McDavid was making. Would anyone have been okay if Dubas agreed to that?

 

[Farsailor]

it's cause and effect, Nylander schooled Dubas first, Mathews took note and so did Marner. You'd think the GM would learn from his mistakes, but actually got worse the more RFA's he signed, at least the top tier RFA's.

I get your point. But it is based on Nylander getting more than he deserved. I don't agree. It was fair then and sits very well now in my opinion.