Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIII

[Throw More Waffles]

Why the **** is this even an argument. It doesn't matter in the slightest.

Yes it does. Based on cap space, does Marner have to sign before Oct 2nd, or not?

 

[Sypher04]

Yes it does. Based on cap space, does Marner have to sign before Oct 2nd, or not?

People like Bob MacKenzie have already said publicly the Leafs do not have the cap flexibility to what they did with Nylander. So, I'd say he will be signed prior to season start

 

[jfc64]

Uuuh, Marner's gonna have to fight like hell to get it up to 11 from 10.5. Not worth it. Happy already. Negotiating tactics. 10.75?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

People like Bob MacKenzie have already said publicly the Leafs do not have the cap flexibility to what they did with Nylander. So, I'd say he will be signed prior to season start

Bob Mackenzie has that opinion based on a misunderstanding of capfriendly tweets. Something capfriendly themselves have clarified. I posted some of those tweets. Read them. They’re clear as day.

 

[Sypher04]

Actually, I'd be absolutely shocked if Marner isn't being advised by his agent they should have a deal done before the NHL announces their intent to open or not open the CBA, which if memory serves is in Sept. Around the 10th or something

 

[Sypher04]

Bob Mackenzie has that opinion based on a misunderstanding of capfriendly tweets. Something capfriendly themselves have clarified. I posted some of those tweets. Read them. They’re clear as day.

I read the tweet you posted. You're assuming that Bob MacKenzie is basing his cap knowledge on capfriendly. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that.

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

Cap hit was 10..277 last year. The 6.96 is the money he was paid. Honestly how do people not know this?

Even more confusing, CapFriendly lists Nylanders total salary over his contract as $45,000,000 but the McKenzie tweet they link to says that he makes $41,770,000 over six years. I was told over and over again on this board that Nylander is actually making $7.5 million a year and that that's the number we should be focusing on rather than $6.9.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I read the tweet you posted. You're assuming that Bob MacKenzie is basing his cap knowledge on capfriendly. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that.

Did you read the reddit post I linked?

It quotes directly from the cba to make its case. The reddit mods stickied it for a while to try and help end the misunderstanding.

 

[Marshy]

At the end of the day...all that matters to the Leafs. ---> if they have 10.5M cap space reserved for Marner, can they sign him to a multi-year 10.5M AAV contract on Oct 1/Nov 1/ Dec 1 ? Yes or no?

 

[Muikea Bulju]

Like I said, they clarified in future tweets how that works.
Look at the following tweet from them. Leafs cap hit was $67 million total. After Nylander signed, it went up to $74 million (not 77 million).

Yes, his personal cap hit was over 10 million - but he didn't play for them 186 days, so the effect on the Toronto team cap hit for the whole season was not 10 million

If you get a 10 million dollar player for half the season via a trade from another team, only half of his cap hit is added to each team's cap hit for the whole year.

 

[Sypher04]

Did you read the reddit post I linked?

It quotes directly from the cba to make its case. The mods stickied it for a while to try and help end the misunderstanding.

I'm not arguing with you on how the cap for Nylander was counted.

All I was saying was the Leafs don't have the same flexibility to do want they did with Marner, per Bob MacKenzie, which imo could mean a few different things

 

[Throw More Waffles]

At the end of the day...all that matters to the Leafs. ---> if they have 10.5M cap space reserved for Marner, can they sign him to a multi-year 10.5M AAV contract on Oct 1/Nov 1/ Dec 1 ? Yes or no?

Yes. 100%

But there is a lot of confusion about it.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

At the end of the day...all that matters to the Leafs. ---> if they have 10.5M cap space reserved for Marner, can they sign him to a multi-year 10.5M AAV contract on Oct 1/Nov 1/ Dec 1 ? Yes or no?

If they have the space in the beginning of the season, and don't make any trades in which they take on salaries, then yes, they have

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I'm not arguing with you on how the cap for Nylander was counted.

All I was saying was the Leafs don't have the same flexibility to do want they did with Marner, per Bob MacKenzie, which imo could mean a few different things

The SPECIFIC debate you jumped in on was “how was Nylanders 1st year cap hit calculated”. That’s specifically what was being discussed.

 

[ToneDog]

A 22 year old 94 point forward is going to get quite the haul no matter what.

Leafs would have to retain in order to get full market value. Not many teams are anxious to trade for an $11M player, let alone fit him under their cap. Avs had to retain 50% of Barrie's contract to make that deal work for the Leafs making the return larger for the Leafs. Another example is what the Preds got for Subban. Taking on cap space in a trade is a valuable asset.

 

[Menzinger]

Even more confusing, CapFriendly lists Nylanders total salary over his contract as $45,000,000 but the McKenzie tweet they link to says that he makes $41,770,000 over six years. I was told over and over again on this board that Nylander is actually making $7.5 million a year and that that's the number we should be focusing on rather than $6.9.

The people quoting 7.5 are wrong. The total value of Nylanders contract divides exactly into 6.96x6

 

[Sypher04]

The SPECIFIC debate you jumped in on was “how was Nylanders 1st year cap hit calculated”. That’s specifically what was being discussed.

Yeah, I am aware of that, and then I was told it matters because of the debate of whether Marner needs to sign by Oct 2nd, to which I offered that MacKenzie doesn't believe they have the flexibility to do what they did with Nylander again. Honestly, for all we know, that quote wasn't even cap related, more a matter of how important Mitch is, I dunno, but I added it because it was directly related

 

[Marshy]

Yes. 100%

But there is a lot of confusion about it.

So what was all that talk about closing the loophole so teams couldn't delay signing RFAs to lower their cap hit?

On Dec 1 10.5 M contract would be like like trading for a $13.75M player as the cap is calculated daily.

 

[Sypher04]

If they have the space in the beginning of the season, and don't make any trades in which they take on salaries, then yes, they have

There's also the matter of the cap hit for whatever player temporarily fills his spot in this scenario to consider

 

[ToneDog]

The people quoting 7.5 are wrong. The total value of Nylanders contract divides exactly into 6.96x6

Do not want to get into a debate about this because the cap hit going forward is 6.96 but how do we account for the 2 months out of those 6 years that he sat out ??

 

[socko]

Do not want to get into a debate about this because the cap hit going forward is 6.96 but how do we account for the 2 months out of those 6 years that he sat out ??

 

[Nithoniniel]

So what was all that talk about closing the loophole so teams couldn't delay signing RFAs to lower their cap hit?

On Dec 1 10.5 M contract would be like like trading for a $13.75M player as the cap is calculated daily.

It works like this, using Nylander as an example:

As a basis, Nylander costs $6.96M against the cap every year. Now remember that cap hits are accrued across the season, when we talk about cap hits we are talking about what their daily costs towards the cap would end up at over a full season. But since Nylander signed late, those daily costs wouldn't add up to a full season's worth. He'd end up having a sub $5M total cap hit the first year just because he signed late, which would have been an advantage to the team.

What they did in the CBA was that they added a rule that inflates the cap hit by whatever is necessary to make sure that no matter when the player sign, the accrued number at season's end would be the same as the other years. So if you sign late, those daily costs are increased just enough that the sum at the end of the season is the same as if the contract was signed before the season started.

 

[socko]

Bob Mackenzie has that opinion based on a misunderstanding of capfriendly tweets. Something capfriendly themselves have clarified. I posted some of those tweets. Read them. They’re clear as day.

McKenzie states it as fact and even names teams that can no longer be trade partners because of the cap inflation. He was carrying on this theme for weeks. This is just brutal journalism if all he said is false. Unforgivable levels of incompetence.

 

[Menzinger]

Do not want to get into a debate about this because the cap hit going forward is 6.96 but how do we account for the 2 months out of those 6 years that he sat out ??

He got paid for lost time.

A none issue - most NHLers woud rather be playing hockey than sitting at home.

 

[ToneDog]

He got paid for lost time.

A none issue - most NHLers woud rather be playing hockey than sitting at home.

I would liken it to load management but he did not have a contract