Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospects Thread Part VI - Playoff Drive Edition

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I agree with this analysis.

Perhaps posters who ask simple questions aren't "downgrading" prospects, but just trying to form their own opinions instead of jumping on rabid hype trains. Never did get an answer from you on what the elite offensive skills were, basically just Nith's transition analysis which is still fairly consistent to today.

Can you show an example of him doing something with the puck that others can only dream of?

His elite offensive skills is something that many dont have along with elite skating. That was easy. Sorry if you just felt like downgrading a Leafs player, by asking a question on something where you didnt like the fact that he posted.

Add Lilly to the big 3 who all have some things that you cant teach. No questions needed or asked.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think there needs to be a correction in expectation for Liljegren, not in terms of how good he can become but what kind of player he'll be. The skill that made people think he would be a dynamic offensive d-man has instead taken the shape of terrific, confident plays to elude pressure and move the puck well. I don't think he'll be more than a decent PP2 option as an NHLer, and as such his scoring upside is limited, but I do think he'll become a top four guy at even strength. Perhaps not as strong as a Dermott or Sandin, but good enough.

Interesting how the buzz around Lil is changing. Drafted as an blazing talent, offensive d man, potential pp quarterback with work to do defensively, now limited scoring upside, second pp and defensively solid. I'd say that his stock has fallen if that's his destiny.

Does seem more are coming around to the idea Sandman may be the better of the two. Also people were saying Lil was ahead of Dermott, again that is being modified now.

 

[DoobieDubas]

I think there needs to be a correction in expectation for Liljegren, not in terms of how good he can become but what kind of player he'll be. The skill that made people think he would be a dynamic offensive d-man has instead taken the shape of terrific, confident plays to elude pressure and move the puck well. I don't think he'll be more than a decent PP2 option as an NHLer, and as such his scoring upside is limited, but I do think he'll become a top four guy at even strength. Perhaps not as strong as a Dermott or Sandin, but good enough.

i agree with this aswell

 

[DoobieDubas]

I haven't watched them play this year (after the pre-season), but had watched Liljegren play in the AHL last year many times. I was impressed with his development but was disappointed with his production. I had said in the summer that while production isn't everything, it is something and if Liljegren's production didn't go up substantially I would have to change my evaluation about him. It hasn't.

On the one hand, the D who were drafted immediately before and after him have played at least some games in the NHL this year (with Valimaki, 16OA playing 22 games and Vaakanainen 18OA playing 2 games) and Jokiharju who was drafted 29th has played 38 games so, based on that alone, he should be getting close.

However he is one of (at least) 8 D from his draft year to play in the AHL this year and Sandin from the following draft year is also playing. If you asked me before the season started where Liljegren would rank among those 9 in points per game, I would have said easily top 3. He is 9th out of 9.

For the 9 playing the AHL their points pace per 82 games: Jokiharju (29OA) would be at 76 points (sure he has only played 13 games, but has managed 50% more points than Liljegren has in 26 games. He has played 38 games in the NHL), Valimaki (16OA) 62 (has only played 12 games, but has more points than Liljegren has despite the latter playing more than twice as many games. He has played 22 games in the NHL), Brannstrom (15OA) 55, Hague (34OA) 36, Sandin (29OA 2018) 35, Vaakanainen (18OA) 32, Foote (14OA) 30, Fleury (87OA) 27, Liljegren (17OA) 25 (worse than last year's 32/82 pace).

As a comparison Dahlin already has 37 points in 64 games in the NHL, and Heiskanen already has 27 in 64. I thought that Heiskanen would be a great all around D, but I expected Liljegren to be the better offensive D. This season Heiskanen has more points in the NHL in fewer games than Liljegren has in the AHL over two seasons (25 points in 70 AHL games).

It may be that Liljegren's game is more suited to the NHL, and, as I have already said, I haven't watched him this year since the pre-season, but I have concerns. It feels to me that at best he will be a third pairing, second pairing injury option, who is strong at controlled exits, but who doesn't have quickness or deceptiveness to put up points.

I have also never thought that Babs would be a fan of Liljegren's game. I know that Dubas has said that before the injury he had hoped that Liljegren would get a try out in the NHL this year. And I think that he deserves a stint to see how his game translastes, but I don't see him as a regular next year. I doubt Sandin will be a regular next year either, but it seems he will be ahead of Liljegren.

You are one of the better posters on here i appreciate the time you took

 

[Martin Skoula]

I think there needs to be a correction in expectation for Liljegren, not in terms of how good he can become but what kind of player he'll be. The skill that made people think he would be a dynamic offensive d-man has instead taken the shape of terrific, confident plays to elude pressure and move the puck well. I don't think he'll be more than a decent PP2 option as an NHLer, and as such his scoring upside is limited, but I do think he'll become a top four guy at even strength. Perhaps not as strong as a Dermott or Sandin, but good enough.

I can see him having a trajectory similar to Stralman.

 

[LaPlante94]

Interesting how the buzz around Lil is changing. Drafted as an blazing talent, offensive d man, potential pp quarterback with work to do defensively, now limited scoring upside, second pp and defensively solid. I'd say that his stock has fallen if that's his destiny.

Does seem more are coming around to the idea Sandman may be the better of the two. Also people were saying Lil was ahead of Dermott, again that is being modified now.

I don't think that's really fair to say about Liljegren. Now that he's in his 2nd year over here he's looked much more comfortable and has been arguably our best d man on the Marlies unless you just look at points. I think people forget he's still only 19 but it's good to have 2 d man who are 18 and 19 years old be able to play in all situations and handle it so well. Future looks bright for our d core, especially if we can either trade or draft another good RD.

 

[DarkKnight]

I don't think that's really fair to say about Liljegren. Now that he's in his 2nd year over here he's looked much more comfortable and has been arguably our best d man on the Marlies unless you just look at points. I think people forget he's still only 19 but it's good to have 2 d man who are 18 and 19 years old be able to play in all situations and handle it so well. Future looks bright for our d core, especially if we can either trade or draft another good RD.

Fair enough, and as you say he's still a kid. I'm just noticing some revisions expectations wise. Nobody blinks now when you suggest Sandin may be better, earlier it was considered a slight. Also, the Dermott trajectory comparisons. I guess people are just getting more realistic about timelines and ultimate upside, always felt there was some over hyping going on.

 

[613Leafer]

I think there needs to be a correction in expectation for Liljegren, not in terms of how good he can become but what kind of player he'll be. The skill that made people think he would be a dynamic offensive d-man has instead taken the shape of terrific, confident plays to elude pressure and move the puck well. I don't think he'll be more than a decent PP2 option as an NHLer, and as such his scoring upside is limited, but I do think he'll become a top four guy at even strength. Perhaps not as strong as a Dermott or Sandin, but good enough.

That's sort of what happened with Stralman.

He was a smooth skating defenceman that could carry the puck, and the concern was that he'd be one-dimensional and unable to carry the load defensively. Instead, he turned into a rock solid 5-on-5 defenceman that could play tough matchups, but was really only a secondary offensive contributor from the blueline.

 

[Duke16]

I've gotta think Filip Kral is making the case to turn pro next season, rather than taking an overage year. If Andrew Nielsen did it, I think Kral can. Much better skater, good instincts at both ends.

 

[LaPlante94]

Fair enough, and as you say he's still a kid. I'm just noticing some revisions expectations wise. Nobody blinks now when you suggest Sandin may be better, earlier it was considered a slight. Also, the Dermott trajectory comparisons. I guess people are just getting more realistic about timelines and ultimate upside, always felt there was some over hyping going on.

I think we're using the AHL to develop our young prospects into more two way players so a transition to the NHL is much smoother so the offensive production isn't quite where you expect it to be for a guy who was drafted for his offensive potential. I feel Liljegren will benefit from the amount of skill we have on our NHL squad and his offensive point totals will get much better.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think we're using the AHL to develop our young prospects into more two way players so a transition to the NHL is much smoother so the offensive production isn't quite where you expect it to be for a guy who was drafted for his offensive potential. I feel Liljegren will benefit from the amount of skill we have on our NHL squad and his offensive point totals will get much better.

Agreed, which I why I've never been in a hurry to rush him up to the NHL. We have done a nice job of developing people properly, patience pays off.

 

[Morgs]

I've gotta think Filip Kral is making the case to turn pro next season, rather than taking an overage year. If Andrew Nielsen did it, I think Kral can. Much better skater, good instincts at both ends.

I think I had him at #35 last season, and was ecstatic when we got him late. Haven't got a chance to see him much this season, but his production is still fantastic playing second fiddle to the best defensive prospect on the planet (Ty Smith).

 

[stickty111]

I think I had him at #35 last season, and was ecstatic when we got him late. Haven't got a chance to see him much this season, but his production is still fantastic playing second fiddle to the best defensive prospect on the planet (Ty Smith).

I was thinking about making a post on him.
30 points in 40 games, and when you consider he is on the 2nd pairing which means he isn't with Ty Smith, and coming off a serious injury, this is very impressive.

 

[Mach85]

I know this is a prospects site and it's easy to get caught up in relative performance, but development is not always linear. Especially with defencemen who have an all-around game to develop. Liljegren is young and has barely started his professional career. Further, injuries have hurt him this season. We don't know what he could become. For all we know, he could put it all together next year and break out. It's not like he's a 23-year-old in his 4th season in NA.

 

[stickty111]

Baptiste Brooks Bracco
Timashov Engvall Carcone
MacMaster Ferguson Gagne
Sestito Jooris Greening

Sandin LoVerde
Jardine Liljegren
Subban Oleksy

Hutchinson

 

[Duke16]

Baptiste Brooks Bracco
Timashov Engvall Carcone
MacMaster Ferguson Gagne
Sestito Jooris Greening

Sandin LoVerde
Jardine Liljegren
Subban Oleksy

Hutchinson

AHL deadline tomorrow. They still need more forwards. Good chance they have lost Moore to the Leafs and Marchment to injury for the year. The D depth will be fine when everyone is healthy.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think I had him at #35 last season, and was ecstatic when we got him late. Haven't got a chance to see him much this season, but his production is still fantastic playing second fiddle to the best defensive prospect on the planet (Ty Smith).

There could be a good chance that Kral and Gordeev (if Dubas still likes him that is) could be the 3rd and 4th LD on the Marlies depth chart next year. #1 is obviously Sandin, and then they can sign a Marincin-like vet to be the #2LD. I don't see Borgman, Rosen or Marincin coming back to the Marlies next year.

RD will almost certainly be something like Holl/Liljegren, Lindgren, Hollowell and then maybe a UFA signing, or bringing back someone like LoVerde, Subban, Corrado or Oleksy (although I think I'd rather try someone new). It'll be a young defense, but there will be talent and depth... Although Gilman will need to find new ECHL depth. Jardine and Corrado are getting older, and they may decide to go elsewhere to find better roles (at best they would be 7/8 or Growlers' vets here). Gudbranson is not good enough for the AHL. LeBlanc was traded. That only really leaves Rubins, who looks like he is worth another AHL contract and a shot at the Marlies, but we need more than one guy.

 

[Duke16]

There could be a good chance that Kral and Gordeev (if Dubas still likes him that is) could be the 3rd and 4th LD on the Marlies depth chart next year. #1 is obviously Sandin, and then they can sign a Marincin-like vet to be the #2LD. I don't see Borgman, Rosen or Marincin coming back to the Marlies next year.

RD will almost certainly be something like Holl/Liljegren, Lindgren, Hollowell and then maybe a UFA signing, or bringing back someone like LoVerde, Subban, Corrado or Oleksy (although I think I'd rather try someone new). It'll be a young defense, but there will be talent and depth... Although Gilman will need to find new ECHL depth. Jardine and Corrado are getting older, and they may decide to go elsewhere to find better roles (at best they would be 7/8 or Growlers' vets here). Gudbranson is not good enough for the AHL. LeBlanc was traded. That only really leaves Rubins, who looks like he is worth another AHL contract and a shot at the Marlies, but we need more than one guy.

Just curious, did Dubas ever display a public liking for Gordeev?

 

[Joey Hoser]

Just curious, did Dubas ever display a public liking for Gordeev?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Brooks would be a nice 4th line center next year in my opinion

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Brooks would be a nice 4th line center next year in my opinion

He needs another year in the AHL. The good news is that he should be able to finally take a Marlies top 6 center role...

Gauthier is still a far better option, and he is almost certainly going to be the 4C for the Leafs next year.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Brooks would be a nice 4th line center next year in my opinion

Hard to say. His numbers aren't really impressive, and not sure if his skating has gotten better to be an NHLer at this point. Maybe the year after next

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Leafs aren't being afraid to play youngsters. They are simply making youngsters earn it and only promoting them when they've dominated the AHL and are ready to be a key piece at the NHL level. Witness: Nylander, Hyman, Dermott, Brown, Johnsson, Kapanen and most recently Moore.

Don't know how you call the above players "youngsters" when they finally got a full shot at the Leafs. Hyman has a full four years at NCAA, plus Marlie time. Nylander had played 1.5m in the Marlies. Brown had completed his junior and two years in AHL.
Hardly comparable to 18 year old Sandin and 19 year old Liljegren.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Hard to say. His numbers aren't really impressive, and not sure if his skating has gotten better to be an NHLer at this point. Maybe the year after next

it depends on his summer I guess. he looked good in the preseason, and his skating does look better. There's a lot to like about his game

 

[Jozay]