Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[Fogelhund]

Look at it this way..

There are 12 F and 6 D and 2 goalies dressed for each game as team composition regularly.

Well a big player 6 feet and above can fit into everyone of those 20 active roster spots, there is no limits on big players, as nobody would say we have tooo many big players. However how many roster spots would a Cup competitive team use on small < 6 ' 170ish players maybe 5-6 max of the 20 spots and those small players better be pretty special to boot of those 20 spots used if a bigger player can do the same or produce the same because size is always more useful in winning puck battles and more punishing hittting etc etc. ?

S0 big players 20 of 20 spots available while small players 4-6 of 20 roster spots.. If your entire prospect pool is full of small players your decreasing our odds of NHLers and very little help for the parent team.

Teams will always prefer size and strength and with that reach and ice coverage over small waterbugs.

Big player and little players both bust, but little players bust at a higher rate simply because no room on the roster for too many, thus cannibalizing themselves. Little players have to prove they can play, while begger players have to prove they can't.

If you really believe this narrative, all the power to you, but it just isn't true. Cheers.

 

[Leafed]

 

[Mess]

If you really believe this narrative, all the power to you, but it just isn't true. Cheers.

Did you notice how fast Treliving cut loose Victor Mete and Marc Hollowell without qualifying offers?

How many sub 6' players do you believe will be on Leafs roster next season on the 20 starting positions dressed for a game?

I'll take all the 6' and greater sized players and you get all the under 6' and then lets compare rosters

 

[RoadWarrior]

Did you notice how fast Treliving cut loose Victor Mete and Marc Hollowell without qualifying offers?

How many sub 6' players do you believe will be on Leafs roster next season on the 20 starting positions dressed for a game?

I'll take all the 6' and greater and you get all the under 6' and then lets compare rosters

Lots of sub 6' guys at the forward position. Very few if any on D.

 

[Mess]

While they did lose Kral, the Marlies went a long way toward filling out next year’s depth, signing six players out of the junior and college ranks to one-year deals:

• Diminutive forward Jackson Berezowski, 21, turns pro after playing his entire junior career with the WHL’s Everett Silvertips, amassing 232 goals and 102 assists in 273 games. He leaves as the franchise’s all-time leading goal scorer and served as team captain since 2021. Last season, he recorded career highs with 48 goals and 81 points, tying for the WHL lead in power-play goals with 22.
• 24-year-old Brock Caufield, the older brother of Montreal Canadiens star sniper Cole Caufield, heads to the Marlies after appearing in 172 games for the University of Wisconsin over five seasons, totaling 33 goals and 41 assists. Born in Stevens Point, Wisconsin, Caufield was part of the Wisconsin team that won the Big Ten regular-season championship in the 2020-21 season. A winger like his brother, Caufield will look to leverage a strong finish to his collegiate career into a full-time AHL role with the Marlies in 2023-24.
• Forward Neil Shea, 23, spent last season with Sacred Heart University, recording 30 points in 37 games. The Marshfield, Massachusetts-born Shea earned a spot on the Atlantic Hockey First All-Star Team and also appeared in six games with the AHL’s Chicago Wolves on a tryout after his collegiate season concluded. Shea split his NCAA career between Sacred Heart and Northeastern University, collecting a total of 27 goals and 40 assists in 123 games.
• 5-foot-9 forward Tate Singleton, 24, recently completed his college career at Ohio State University, playing 140 games and contributing 33 goals and 37 assists. In the 2022-23 season, Singleton achieved career highs with 11 goals and 16 assists. Like the others, he’ll look to leverage a strong finish to his collegiate career to win one of the limited spots available on the Marlies and avoid assignment to the ECHL’s Newfoundland Growlers.
• The only NHL-drafted player on this list is 23-year-old left wing Tyler Weiss, whose signing rights with the Colorado Avalanche are set to lapse by August 15 if he doesn’t sign an entry-level contract. The 109th overall pick in the 2018 NHL Draft played 159 games during his collegiate career with the University of Nebraska-Omaha, amassing 116 points over five seasons.
• Last but not least is 21-year-old right-shot defender Nolan Dillingham, who spent the past season with the OHL’s Sarnia Sting, recording six goals and eight assists in 45 games. The Ontario-born defender has good size at 6-foot-1 and 201 pounds and served as Sarnia’s captain last season. He’ll aim to embark on a pro career with his hometown Marlies, but given their deep blueline, Dillingham is the most likely player on this list to play out next year in the ECHL.

 

[Dekes For Days]

There are 12 F and 6 D and 2 goalies dressed for each game as team composition regularly.
Well a big player 6 feet and above can fit into everyone of those 20 active roster spots, there is no limits on big players, as nobody would say we have tooo many big players. However how many roster spots would a Cup competitive team use on small < 6 ' 170ish players maybe 5-6 max of the 20 spots and those small players better be pretty special to boot of those 20 spots used if a bigger player can do the same or produce the same because size is always more useful in winning puck battles and more punishing hittting etc etc. ?

There are no roster limits based on size. Just get the best players.

Big player and little players both bust, but little players bust at a higher rate

That's just simply not true.

 

[ULF_55]

While they did lose Kral, the Marlies went a long way toward filling out next year’s depth, signing six players out of the junior and college ranks to one-year deals:

• Diminutive forward Jackson Berezowski, 21,
• 24-year-old Brock Caufield, the older brother of Montreal Canadiens star sniper Cole Caufield,
• Forward Neil Shea, 23,
• 5-foot-9 forward Tate Singleton, 24, recently completed his college career at Ohio State
• The only NHL-drafted player on this list is 23-year-old left wing Tyler Weiss
• Last but not least is 21-year-old right-shot defender Nolan Dillingham,

From Elite ...

Berezowski - 5'9"
Caufield - 5'9"
Shea - 6'1"
Singleton - 5'9"
Weiss - 5'10"
Dillingham - 6'1"

Wonder if any of these are dated, i.e. taken when kids still growing?

 

[Fogelhund]

Did you notice how fast Treliving cut loose Victor Mete and Marc Hollowell without qualifying offers?

How many sub 6' players do you believe will be on Leafs roster next season on the 20 starting positions dressed for a game?

I'll take all the 6' and greater sized players and you get all the under 6' and then lets compare rosters

You mean the same guy who also cut loose 6'2" Kral, 6'2" Benn, 6' 2" Schenn, 6' 3" Holl, 6'5" Dahlstrom just as quickly as he did Hollowell and Mete?

At this point, the D of both the Marlies and Leafs is at nearly it's smallest and softest in years. There has been ZERO big and physical d added at either the AHL or NHL level.

 

[Mess]

From Elite ...

Berezowski - 5'9"
Caufield - 5'9"
Shea - 6'1"
Singleton - 5'9"
Weiss - 5'10"
Dillingham - 6'1"

Wonder if any of these are dated, i.e. taken when kids still growing?

Well here would be an example from HockeyDB

 

[notbias]

Did you notice how fast Treliving cut loose Victor Mete and Marc Hollowell without qualifying offers?

How many sub 6' players do you believe will be on Leafs roster next season on the 20 starting positions dressed for a game?

I'll take all the 6' and greater sized players and you get all the under 6' and then lets compare rosters

He cut them loose so he could sign Domi, there is a limit to small players on the roster.

No clue why a bunch of grown men sit around obsessing about the size of other men, it is a really weird obsession our board has.

Also, the 6' and under team might win.

Marchand - Crosby - Kucherov
Nylander - MacKinnon - Marner
Kaprizov - Hughes - Panarin
Gaudreau - Point - Ehler

Hughes - Fox
Morrissey - Makar
Karlsson - Montour

Saros
Levi

If you increase it to 6'1, the average NHL height, the smaller team 100% wins.

 

[aingefan]

Kral seemed promising at one point. Seems to have fallen off pretty hard.

Injured lots during an important year.
I think he’ll get back to the NHL one day.

 

[Fonzieleaf]

Anyone feel like starting prospect rankings?

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Anyone feel like starting prospect rankings?

Number 1: Knies.
Somebody elses turn.

 

[The Iceman]

Would be great if 1 or even 2 of these AHL contract guys could play their way into an NHL deal at some point. The organization has done well with these in the past.

Say what you want about Holl (I didn't love him either) but he was one of these guys at one point and turned it into a pretty good payday.

Holl was a 2nd round draft pick so he came with a pedigree.

 

[The Iceman]

What happened? He had solid in his NHL debut earlier in the season and with the Marlies, no? He go downhill after the call up?

surprised he went back to Europe

so much so that he seemed like the 1st option with the Marlies.
They asked him to play a certain way and were seemingly trying to mold him into a "type" but it did not work.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Number 1: Knies.
Somebody elses turn.

Niemela 2

 

[Mitch nylander]

Anyone feel like starting prospect rankings?

1) Matthew Knies
To me the clear cut number 1, as he's proven it in the NHL playoffs as well as the NCAA. In my eye he should be a top 6 forward at the next level. He's got a unique blend of size, quick hands, and powerful shot. His skating has improved immensely as well.

2) Topi Niemela
Here's a guy who's been on the upswing ever since he was draft. From being the WJC defender of the tournament, to a historic SM Liga season to now being almost a ppg in the AHL playoffs. Guy is talented. Outstanding mobility from edgework to speed along side of high IQ makes me confident in him translating at the next level.

3) Nick Robertson
I get the jury might be out, but he's still only 21. Yes injuries have set him back, but you can't deny his shot and work ethic. I see him being a skillful top 9 forward. I think his stride is still slightly awkward and his size might cause him troubles but the talent is there.

4) Easton Cowan
Yes, I know he's a reach but I'm a fan. Watched him quite a bit in London this year. Guy is always the hardest worker on the ice, and is noticeable on both ends. He can skate well, he battles hard against the boards and sees the ice really well. Would love to see a boost in production this upcoming season.

5) Nikita Grebenkin
Here's a guy who's been a huge surprise to me, a guy that I didn't even have ranked when we chose him. This past season made it evident that he's a player, by being a KHL rookie of the season finalist and the leading junior scorer. Guy has great size coupled with excellent hands, and playmaking abilities. His skating seems to have improved as well.

6) Pontus Holmberg
Here's a guy that I think will 100% be an nhl player. I think he's a guaranteed middle six center. Works hard, plays smart, and is positionally sound in his own end. He's a sound skater as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in one of our bottom six center spots next season.

7) Fraser Minten
Look I'll be the first to say, I was not impressed with his season at all and I think he will need a big season to get me back on board. Great defensively, but lacks that offensive potential. I see him as a good bottom 6 forward.

8) Roni Hirvonen
Another guy with a very projectable skill-set. My type of prospect a great skater coupled with great hockey IQ. I can see this guy slotting anywhere in a lineup at the next level.

9) Ty Voit
One of the biggest boom/bust prospects of our system. A guy who is probably the best playmaker in the system who was second in points in the OHL. Kid is magical with the puck. That being said, I think he's a top 6 or bust. He'll need to become better in his own end and become stronger on the puck.

10) Nick Abruzzese
I have really liked his progression. I think he's got an amazing mind for the game, and honestly he looked pretty good in his call up. I think he projects to be a Kerfoot level forward at the next level but I am not sure if that will be with the Leafs or elsewhere.

HMS
William Villeneuve - A two-way dman, that needs to work on his skating. Had a decent first season in the A.
Nick Moldenhauer- One of our better skaters in our system couple with great puck-handling abilities. Would like to see him be more consistent.
Alex Steeves - A guy who put up nice numbers in the A, that lacks any real high end skills but is well-rounded.

Goalies
1) Joseph Woll
2) Dennis Hildeby
3) Vyacheslav Peksa
4) Artur Akhtyamov

 

[Knies iT]

1) Matthew Knies
To me the clear cut number 1, as he's proven it in the NHL playoffs as well as the NCAA. In my eye he should be a top 6 forward at the next level. He's got a unique blend of size, quick hands, and powerful shot. His skating has improved immensely as well.

2) Topi Niemela
Here's a guy who's been on the upswing ever since he was draft. From being the WJC defender of the tournament, to a historic SM Liga season to now being almost a ppg in the AHL playoffs. Guy is talented. Outstanding mobility from edgework to speed along side of high IQ makes me confident in him translating at the next level.

3) Nick Robertson
I get the jury might be out, but he's still only 21. Yes injuries have set him back, but you can't deny his shot and work ethic. I see him being a skillful top 9 forward. I think his stride is still slightly awkward and his size might cause him troubles but the talent is there.

4) Easton Cowan
Yes, I know he's a reach but I'm a fan. Watched him quite a bit in London this year. Guy is always the hardest worker on the ice, and is noticeable on both ends. He can skate well, he battles hard against the boards and sees the ice really well. Would love to see a boost in production this upcoming season.

5) Nikita Grebenkin
Here's a guy who's been a huge surprise to me, a guy that I didn't even have ranked when we chose him. This past season made it evident that he's a player, by being a KHL rookie of the season finalist and the leading junior scorer. Guy has great size coupled with excellent hands, and playmaking abilities. His skating seems to have improved as well.

6) Pontus Holmberg
Here's a guy that I think will 100% be an nhl player. I think he's a guaranteed middle six center. Works hard, plays smart, and is positionally sound in his own end. He's a sound skater as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in one of our bottom six center spots next season.

7) Fraser Minten
Look I'll be the first to say, I was not impressed with his season at all and I think he will need a big season to get me back on board. Great defensively, but lacks that offensive potential. I see him as a good bottom 6 forward.

8) Roni Hirvonen
Another guy with a very projectable skill-set. My type of prospect a great skater couple with great hockey IQ. I can see this guy slotting anywhere in a lineup at the next level.

9) Ty Voit
One of the biggest boom/bust prospects of our system. A guy who is probably the best playmaker in the system who was second in points in the OHL. Kid is magical with the puck. That being said, I think he's a top 6 or bust. He'll need to become better in his own end and become stronger on the puck.

10) Nick Abruzzese
I have really liked his progression. I think he's got an amazing mind for the game, and honestly he looked pretty good in his call up. I think he projects to be a Kerfoot level forward at the next level but I am not sure if that will be with the Leafs or elsewhere.

HMS
William Villeneuve - A two-way dman, that needs to work on his skating. Had a decent first season in the A.
Nick Moldenhauer- One of our better skaters in our system couple with great puck-handling abilities. Would like to see him be more consistent.
Alex Steeves - A guy who put up nice numbers in the A, that lacks any real high end skills but is well-rounded.

Goalies
1) Joseph Woll
2) Dennis Hildeby
3) Vyacheslav Peksa
4) Artur Akhtyamov

Solid list, but calling Hirvonen a "great skater" is off the mark. I'd say he's below average.

Not only is his skating slow and clunky, but he has a problem with not moving his feet enough.

 

[mistaclick]

1) Matthew Knies
To me the clear cut number 1, as he's proven it in the NHL playoffs as well as the NCAA. In my eye he should be a top 6 forward at the next level. He's got a unique blend of size, quick hands, and powerful shot. His skating has improved immensely as well.

2) Topi Niemela
Here's a guy who's been on the upswing ever since he was draft. From being the WJC defender of the tournament, to a historic SM Liga season to now being almost a ppg in the AHL playoffs. Guy is talented. Outstanding mobility from edgework to speed along side of high IQ makes me confident in him translating at the next level.

3) Nick Robertson
I get the jury might be out, but he's still only 21. Yes injuries have set him back, but you can't deny his shot and work ethic. I see him being a skillful top 9 forward. I think his stride is still slightly awkward and his size might cause him troubles but the talent is there.

4) Easton Cowan
Yes, I know he's a reach but I'm a fan. Watched him quite a bit in London this year. Guy is always the hardest worker on the ice, and is noticeable on both ends. He can skate well, he battles hard against the boards and sees the ice really well. Would love to see a boost in production this upcoming season.

5) Nikita Grebenkin
Here's a guy who's been a huge surprise to me, a guy that I didn't even have ranked when we chose him. This past season made it evident that he's a player, by being a KHL rookie of the season finalist and the leading junior scorer. Guy has great size coupled with excellent hands, and playmaking abilities. His skating seems to have improved as well.

6) Pontus Holmberg
Here's a guy that I think will 100% be an nhl player. I think he's a guaranteed middle six center. Works hard, plays smart, and is positionally sound in his own end. He's a sound skater as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in one of our bottom six center spots next season.

7) Fraser Minten
Look I'll be the first to say, I was not impressed with his season at all and I think he will need a big season to get me back on board. Great defensively, but lacks that offensive potential. I see him as a good bottom 6 forward.

8) Roni Hirvonen
Another guy with a very projectable skill-set. My type of prospect a great skater couple with great hockey IQ. I can see this guy slotting anywhere in a lineup at the next level.

9) Ty Voit
One of the biggest boom/bust prospects of our system. A guy who is probably the best playmaker in the system who was second in points in the OHL. Kid is magical with the puck. That being said, I think he's a top 6 or bust. He'll need to become better in his own end and become stronger on the puck.

10) Nick Abruzzese
I have really liked his progression. I think he's got an amazing mind for the game, and honestly he looked pretty good in his call up. I think he projects to be a Kerfoot level forward at the next level but I am not sure if that will be with the Leafs or elsewhere.

HMS
William Villeneuve - A two-way dman, that needs to work on his skating. Had a decent first season in the A.
Nick Moldenhauer- One of our better skaters in our system couple with great puck-handling abilities. Would like to see him be more consistent.
Alex Steeves - A guy who put up nice numbers in the A, that lacks any real high end skills but is well-rounded.

Goalies
1) Joseph Woll
2) Dennis Hildeby
3) Vyacheslav Peksa
4) Artur Akhtyamov

I like this list except I’d swap Robertson for Niemela, and then go Greb, Holmberg, Cowan. Niemela still has a lot to prove for me in NA whereas we’ve seen Robertson be able to at least keep up and compete at an NHL level before. I’m concerned about Niemela’s physicals, if he can handle the speed and toughness now. Hopefully he’s training hard off-ice this summer

 

[BertCorbeau]

1) Matthew Knies
To me the clear cut number 1, as he's proven it in the NHL playoffs as well as the NCAA. In my eye he should be a top 6 forward at the next level. He's got a unique blend of size, quick hands, and powerful shot. His skating has improved immensely as well.

2) Topi Niemela
Here's a guy who's been on the upswing ever since he was draft. From being the WJC defender of the tournament, to a historic SM Liga season to now being almost a ppg in the AHL playoffs. Guy is talented. Outstanding mobility from edgework to speed along side of high IQ makes me confident in him translating at the next level.

3) Nick Robertson
I get the jury might be out, but he's still only 21. Yes injuries have set him back, but you can't deny his shot and work ethic. I see him being a skillful top 9 forward. I think his stride is still slightly awkward and his size might cause him troubles but the talent is there.

4) Easton Cowan
Yes, I know he's a reach but I'm a fan. Watched him quite a bit in London this year. Guy is always the hardest worker on the ice, and is noticeable on both ends. He can skate well, he battles hard against the boards and sees the ice really well. Would love to see a boost in production this upcoming season.

5) Nikita Grebenkin
Here's a guy who's been a huge surprise to me, a guy that I didn't even have ranked when we chose him. This past season made it evident that he's a player, by being a KHL rookie of the season finalist and the leading junior scorer. Guy has great size coupled with excellent hands, and playmaking abilities. His skating seems to have improved as well.

6) Pontus Holmberg
Here's a guy that I think will 100% be an nhl player. I think he's a guaranteed middle six center. Works hard, plays smart, and is positionally sound in his own end. He's a sound skater as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in one of our bottom six center spots next season.

7) Fraser Minten
Look I'll be the first to say, I was not impressed with his season at all and I think he will need a big season to get me back on board. Great defensively, but lacks that offensive potential. I see him as a good bottom 6 forward.

8) Roni Hirvonen
Another guy with a very projectable skill-set. My type of prospect a great skater couple with great hockey IQ. I can see this guy slotting anywhere in a lineup at the next level.

9) Ty Voit
One of the biggest boom/bust prospects of our system. A guy who is probably the best playmaker in the system who was second in points in the OHL. Kid is magical with the puck. That being said, I think he's a top 6 or bust. He'll need to become better in his own end and become stronger on the puck.

10) Nick Abruzzese
I have really liked his progression. I think he's got an amazing mind for the game, and honestly he looked pretty good in his call up. I think he projects to be a Kerfoot level forward at the next level but I am not sure if that will be with the Leafs or elsewhere.

HMS
William Villeneuve - A two-way dman, that needs to work on his skating. Had a decent first season in the A.
Nick Moldenhauer- One of our better skaters in our system couple with great puck-handling abilities. Would like to see him be more consistent.
Alex Steeves - A guy who put up nice numbers in the A, that lacks any real high end skills but is well-rounded.

Goalies
1) Joseph Woll
2) Dennis Hildeby
3) Vyacheslav Peksa
4) Artur Akhtyamov

I’d probably get Woll in the top 5.. maybe 4-5 overall.

He’s obviously graduating as a prospect this year since he’s no longer waiver exempt but his stellar AHL season combined with his strong NHL play along with his solid playoff showing should give him some credibility.

I think the steps he took in the last year haven’t been acknowledged enough.

 

[Dayjobdave]

1) Matthew Knies
To me the clear cut number 1, as he's proven it in the NHL playoffs as well as the NCAA. In my eye he should be a top 6 forward at the next level. He's got a unique blend of size, quick hands, and powerful shot. His skating has improved immensely as well.

2) Topi Niemela
Here's a guy who's been on the upswing ever since he was draft. From being the WJC defender of the tournament, to a historic SM Liga season to now being almost a ppg in the AHL playoffs. Guy is talented. Outstanding mobility from edgework to speed along side of high IQ makes me confident in him translating at the next level.

3) Nick Robertson
I get the jury might be out, but he's still only 21. Yes injuries have set him back, but you can't deny his shot and work ethic. I see him being a skillful top 9 forward. I think his stride is still slightly awkward and his size might cause him troubles but the talent is there.

4) Easton Cowan
Yes, I know he's a reach but I'm a fan. Watched him quite a bit in London this year. Guy is always the hardest worker on the ice, and is noticeable on both ends. He can skate well, he battles hard against the boards and sees the ice really well. Would love to see a boost in production this upcoming season.

5) Nikita Grebenkin
Here's a guy who's been a huge surprise to me, a guy that I didn't even have ranked when we chose him. This past season made it evident that he's a player, by being a KHL rookie of the season finalist and the leading junior scorer. Guy has great size coupled with excellent hands, and playmaking abilities. His skating seems to have improved as well.

6) Pontus Holmberg
Here's a guy that I think will 100% be an nhl player. I think he's a guaranteed middle six center. Works hard, plays smart, and is positionally sound in his own end. He's a sound skater as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in one of our bottom six center spots next season.

7) Fraser Minten
Look I'll be the first to say, I was not impressed with his season at all and I think he will need a big season to get me back on board. Great defensively, but lacks that offensive potential. I see him as a good bottom 6 forward.

8) Roni Hirvonen
Another guy with a very projectable skill-set. My type of prospect a great skater couple with great hockey IQ. I can see this guy slotting anywhere in a lineup at the next level.

9) Ty Voit
One of the biggest boom/bust prospects of our system. A guy who is probably the best playmaker in the system who was second in points in the OHL. Kid is magical with the puck. That being said, I think he's a top 6 or bust. He'll need to become better in his own end and become stronger on the puck.

10) Nick Abruzzese
I have really liked his progression. I think he's got an amazing mind for the game, and honestly he looked pretty good in his call up. I think he projects to be a Kerfoot level forward at the next level but I am not sure if that will be with the Leafs or elsewhere.

HMS
William Villeneuve - A two-way dman, that needs to work on his skating. Had a decent first season in the A.
Nick Moldenhauer- One of our better skaters in our system couple with great puck-handling abilities. Would like to see him be more consistent.
Alex Steeves - A guy who put up nice numbers in the A, that lacks any real high end skills but is well-rounded.

Goalies
1) Joseph Woll
2) Dennis Hildeby
3) Vyacheslav Peksa
4) Artur Akhtyamov

Great list. I’m starting to thing Moldenhauer is going to be a real player. Potential second line winger.

 

[Mitch nylander]

I’d probably get Woll in the top 5.. maybe 4-5 overall.

He’s obviously graduating as a prospect this year since he’s no longer waiver exempt but his stellar AHL season combined with his strong NHL play along with his solid playoff showing should give him some credibility.

I think the steps he took in the last year haven’t been acknowledged enough.

Yea he's around 5 for me as well but I decided to exclude goalies on my list.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Yea he's around 5 for me as well but I decided to exclude goalies on my list.

Ah gotcha! That’s fair

 

[andora]

Solid list, but calling Hirvonen a "great skater" is off the mark. I'd say he's below average.

Not only is his skating slow and clunky, but he has a problem with not moving his feet enough.

I am not arguing this point but is this from watching him here or in finland?

Now acknowledging the gap between NA and finnish.. i watched a few of his liiga games this year and one of the things i liked is that he closed quickly on guys.. that could be attributed to lots of things of course... quickish for liiga, quality of competition, he was positionally sound which allowed him to close properly etc..

I havent seen a second of him since coming over except for that hit.. so i am curious

 

[Knies iT]

I am not arguing this point but is this from watching him here or in finland?

Now acknowledging the gap between NA and finnish.. i watched a few of his liiga games this year and one of the things i liked is that he closed quickly on guys.. that could be attributed to lots of things of course... quickish for liiga, quality of competition, he was positionally sound which allowed him to close properly etc..

I havent seen a second of him since coming over except for that hit.. so i am curious

Liiga/WJC. He hasn't played a game here yet.

There was an Athletic article last season that discussed how Wickenheiser/development staff were pushing him to move his feet more off-puck.

He has a lot of great qualities but they'll be neutralized at the NHL level if he can't improve his skating. Acceleration and stop/starts are pretty ugly.