Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[stickty111]

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Of course, that's how he plays. That's the way he's always played. He played for Sarnia, same team as Voit, so our scouts saw him play many times.

That's why he was brought to camp, that's why he was signed. He's a leader, has won awards for it, and plays a hard, physical style. We could use more of that.

It's unfortunate what happened in camp, but that's how the kid plays, and the team knew that before camp. In all likelihood, they were interested in him well before camp.

In the end not a big deal. I just don't think it's the standard we should use. If we don't spend draft picks on big players that aren't very good, then it's fine. Signing them for free is ok
I prefer signing these kind of players with some level of skills. Thats my issue.

 

[Twine Tickler]

After seeing one play.

I don't know how many times I need to say that I know nothing about him, I am not related to him, I am not being paid to defend him.

I have defended his hit. That is it.

I am happy to have a kid who is willing to compete no matter the setting. Based on the stuff I've read, and yes, that one play.

Historically, he will amount to nothing. But just as @Fogelhund mentioned, we need players in Newfoundland and with the Marlies. If he develops, great. If he doesn't, just add him to the much larger list of players who failed to do the same before him.

He clearly has something the scouting staff likes. I can only assume it is competitiveness and character based on what I've read. It's clearly not because he can help with offense.

 

[Fogelhund]

In the end not a big deal. I just don't think it's the standard we should use. If we don't spend draft picks on big players that aren't very good, then it's fine. Signing them for free is ok
I prefer signing these kind of players with some level of skills. Thats my issue.

I mean we just signed Ryan Reaves to a contract. Take a look at his Junior numbers and "skills". Reaves was drafted after 16 points in 64 games. It seems this team now believes we need more of a balance in the roster and system.

Take a read about Dillingham... sounds like a positive guy to have around, even if he doesn't become much.

Sarnia Sting

sarniasting.com

 

[LeafSteel]

I don't know how many times I need to say that I know nothing about him, I am not related to him, I am not being paid to defend him.

I have defended his hit. That is it.

I am happy to have a kid who is willing to compete no matter the setting. Based on the stuff I've read, and yes, that one play.

Historically, he will amount to nothing. But just as @Fogelhund mentioned, we need players in Newfoundland and with the Marlies. If he develops, great. If he doesn't, just add him to the much larger list of players who failed to do the same before him.

He clearly has something the scouting staff likes. I can only assume it is competitiveness and character based on what I've read. It's clearly not because he can help with offense.

Honestly, just ignore him. We have some folks here who’s only goal seems to be to nitpick and beat things to death, and he’s one of them.

You are a good poster, and I enjoy reading your thoughts.

100% on board with signing Dillingham, not so much with high aspirations but love bringing in someone who works hard and aren’t afraid to step into the moment.

We don’t have enough of that mindset anywhere in our organization, and if it starts on the Marlies and/or Growlers, so be it. The guy has a pair and it’s nice to finally see some, anywhere in this organization.

 

[andora]

I have no relation to him at all. I also didn't even know he existed until last Saturday TBH. I just don't think it's appropriate to throw stones at a kid who made a clean hit in pursuit of his dream.

It's a level of competitiveness this entire board has wanted/demanded from our current group of players. We seem to have a kid showing that willingness to compete and a healthy amount of people on this board and the internet have been shitting on him for it. All because he knocked out a B level prospect.

The uproar he caused on the weekend off of a clean hit was absurd IMO. Again, if the hit were reversed, and Hirvonen layed out an undrafted invite, the entire narrative would have been the exact opposite.

I think that's why I've been so passionately defensive of Dillingham. I'm tired of our organization/media/fanbase putting our star players and prospects on a pedestal. Treat all the players the same in how we critique them. Roni wasn't wearing a non-contact jersey nor did he have the number 99 on the back. He is fair game.

If we want to instill competitiveness it starts at the grassroots IMO. I am happy to see our organization is rewarding that type of play TBH

Exactly.. perfectly said

I am wondering about the obsession with a likely career ECHL player, it seems extremely odd, that is the confusion.

You have created this yourself

 

[LeafChief]

Kral seemed promising at one point. Seems to have fallen off pretty hard.

 

[andora]

Kral seemed promising at one point. Seems to have fallen off pretty hard.

Yeah as far as low key boring dmen i liked him

I view low key boring as a good thing.. holl should have been told this

 

[Twine Tickler]

100% on board with signing Dillingham, not so much with high aspirations but love bringing in someone who works hard and aren’t afraid to step into the moment.

We don’t have enough of that mindset anywhere in our organization, and if it starts on the Marlies and/or Growlers, so be it. The guy has a pair and it’s nice to finally see some, anywhere in this organization.

I couldn't agree more.

Lets just pretend in some fantasy world that Roni Hirvonen becomes something special, say a top-6 forward at the NHL. And again, Lets pretend Nolan were to follow Roni to the next level and they are both on the Leafs at the same time. Make no mistake, what happened at that camp, and the actions that subsequently followed that incident will serve a huge role in overall team dynamic in the end. Both players will have learnt a valuable lesson from that incident. For Nolan, he will have learned his play and competitiveness is not only appreciated but rewarded. And for Roni, he will learn that he was just another attendee at that camp, and at the end of the day just another member of this organization. So no matter the success Roni may have down the line, he will always know he is just another member of the team, not above the team.

It really does start at the minor league level IMO. Culture is what has killed us these past 7 seasons. We need to change that top to bottom IMO

 

[BertCorbeau]

Kral seemed promising at one point. Seems to have fallen off pretty hard.

What happened? He had solid in his NHL debut earlier in the season and with the Marlies, no? He go downhill after the call up?

surprised he went back to Europe

 

[LeafSteel]

I couldn't agree more.

Lets just pretend in some fantasy world that Roni Hirvonen becomes something special, say a top-6 forward at the NHL. And again, Lets pretend Nolan were to follow Roni to the next level and they are both on the Leafs at the same time. Make no mistake, what happened at that camp, and the actions that subsequently followed that incident will serve a huge role in overall team dynamic in the end. Both players will have learnt a valuable lesson from that incident. For Nolan, he will have learned his play and competitiveness is not only appreciated but rewarded. And for Roni, he will learn that he was just another attendee at that camp, and at the end of the day just another member of this organization. So no matter the success Roni may have down the line, he will always know he is just another member of the team, not above the team.

It really does start at the minor league level IMO. Culture is what has killed us these past 7 seasons. We need to change that top to bottom IMO

Agreed.

Also a bit of irony: if Hirvonen and Dillingham were to be on the Marlies and an opposing player laid out Roni, or any Marlie player, it would be Dillingham who would come to his defence without hesitating.

Yep, can’t have those kinds of people anywhere near our teams…….

 

[stickty111]

I mean we just signed Ryan Reaves to a contract. Take a look at his Junior numbers and "skills". Reaves was drafted after 16 points in 64 games. It seems this team now believes we need more of a balance in the roster and system.

Take a read about Dillingham... sounds like a positive guy to have around, even if he doesn't become much.

Sarnia Sting

sarniasting.com

That was also a terrible contract. This team shouldn't make a trend of signing useless guys just because they are physical.
Also Dubas literally signed Simmonds and kept him around so this didn't start now.
A balance is okay, but they shouldn't go extreme on either side.

 

[notbias]

Honestly, just ignore him. We have some folks here who’s only goal seems to be to nitpick and beat things to death, and he’s one of them.

You are a good poster, and I enjoy reading your thoughts.

100% on board with signing Dillingham, not so much with high aspirations but love bringing in someone who works hard and aren’t afraid to step into the moment.

We don’t have enough of that mindset anywhere in our organization, and if it starts on the Marlies and/or Growlers, so be it. The guy has a pair and it’s nice to finally see some, anywhere in this organization.

I guess I'd rather use the spot on someone with NHL upside.

I wish this was the key to prospect development and culture change throughout the organization

I don't care that we signed him, the spot likely amounts to nothing for whoever we sign, but I am laughing at everyone excited or discussing this signing like it is a shift in culture. Sign guys like Clune or Clifford who have been through it all and are characters guys to mentor the prospects.

The only way this guy has value to the Leafs is if he has NHL upside, which from everything I've seen, he doesn't.

I think his biggest contribution to the Leafs will be giving Hrivonen a reality check.

Agreed.

Also a bit of irony: if Hirvonen and Dillingham were to be on the Marlies and an opposing player laid out Roni, or any Marlie player, it would be Dillingham who would come to his defence without hesitating.

Yep, can’t have those kinds of people anywhere near our teams…….

We have far better players on the Marlier to do that.

 

[LeafSteel]

I guess I'd rather use the spot on someone with NHL upside.

I wish this was the key to prospect development and culture change throughout the organization

I don't care that we signed him, the spot likely amounts to nothing for whoever we sign, but I am laughing at everyone excited or discussing this signing like it is a shift in culture. Sign guys like Clune or Clifford who have been through it all and are characters guys to mentor the prospects.

The only way this guy has value to the Leafs is if he has NHL upside, which from everything I've seen, he doesn't.

I think his biggest contribution to the Leafs will be giving Hrivonen a reality check.



We have far better players on the Marlier to do that.

Good with all of this.

Only thing I’d say having a physical RHD in our system like Dillingham…… I can’t remember the last time we had one. Justin Holl need not apply here.

As a Leaf fan, I will always hope for the best, understanding that’s rarely what ends up happening.

Hoping this kid can do something on the Marlies if given the chance, but it feels like if he doesn’t, it won’t be from lack of effort or give a crap on his part.

I’d be good with that.

 

[Fogelhund]

That was also a terrible contract. This team shouldn't make a trend of signing useless guys just because they are physical.
Also Dubas literally signed Simmonds and kept him around so this didn't start now.
A balance is okay, but they shouldn't go extreme on either side.

I agree on Reaves.

By all accounts, Dillingham is a good defensive D man... at least at the Junior level, along with the physical traits, and leadership. I don't mind that signing at all. No NHL roster or cap taken. No real risk, no prospects lose opportunity.

Personally I hope that every signing excels, and some make it to the next level.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Agreed.

Also a bit of irony: if Hirvonen and Dillingham were to be on the Marlies and an opposing player laid out Roni, or any Marlie player, it would be Dillingham who would come to his defence without hesitating.

Yep, can’t have those kinds of people anywhere near our teams…….

ya it really is ironic. But that's hockey. Anyone who's played the game knows that. Roni seems like a kid who would be first to shake Nolan's hand and admit his own part in that incident.

It sucks, because I know Roni isn't a wimp, and I know he probably would have had his head on a swivel a bit more had it been a documented game on record. But at the end of the day he got clocked because he let his guard down. It's a lesson he needs to learn, and I'd rather it be from a slightly less developed 21 year old rather then some of the other meatheads in the ECHL, AHL or NHL.

So much talk was surrounding the context surrounding the hit, and not the hit itself. Which was absolutely textbook. Square to the opponent, absorbed the hit like a man, and principle point of contact was not the head. A lot of people don't realize that impact is felt on the hitter too. It's a high speed collision on both ends, only difference is 1 person is expecting it and the other isn't. Nolan would have felt that hit as well. Obviously not in the same capacity, but it shows how tough and willing the kid is. I like that

Haven't seen a hit that big from anyone in a Leafs uniform since Dion Phaneuf laid out steven da costa.

 

[francis246]

I don't know how many times I need to say that I know nothing about him, I am not related to him, I am not being paid to defend him.

I have defended his hit. That is it.

I am happy to have a kid who is willing to compete no matter the setting. Based on the stuff I've read, and yes, that one play.

Historically, he will amount to nothing. But just as @Fogelhund mentioned, we need players in Newfoundland and with the Marlies. If he develops, great. If he doesn't, just add him to the much larger list of players who failed to do the same before him.

He clearly has something the scouting staff likes. I can only assume it is competitiveness and character based on what I've read. It's clearly not because he can help with offense.

Agreed with you, nothing wrong with giving the kid a shot. We loose nothing by doing so. What if he actually develops into a serviceable player. We need players that can protect the net. Obviously I haven’t watched him so I don’t know his skill set, probably not offensively gifted but if his skating isn’t very poor I’m sure he’ll do fine.

 

[andora]

I guess I'd rather use the spot on someone with NHL upside.

I wish this was the key to prospect development and culture change throughout the organization

I don't care that we signed him, the spot likely amounts to nothing for whoever we sign, but I am laughing at everyone excited or discussing this signing like it is a shift in culture. Sign guys like Clune or Clifford who have been through it all and are characters guys to mentor the prospects.

The only way this guy has value to the Leafs is if he has NHL upside, which from everything I've seen, he doesn't.

I think his biggest contribution to the Leafs will be giving Hrivonen a reality check.



We have far better players on the Marlier to do that.

There is more to changing culture than signing some never wases. Culture changes when you have these types of players from draft age, coming up with everyone else and holding everyone else accountable..

 

[Twine Tickler]

I guess I'd rather use the spot on someone with NHL upside.

I wish this was the key to prospect development and culture change throughout the organization

If we were to waste an SPC on him I would 100% not be supporting this. A minor league deal really has no negatives IMO.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I figured they just gave Dillingham an AHL deal so he can be put through the ringer in training camp...

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

View attachment 728858

View attachment 728857

This his how you gamble on smaller players by signing them as "free wallets" ..

Jackson scored 48 goals & 81 points in 62 games in the WHL last season, and 46 goals in 62 games the year prior.

Leafs own drafted prospect in comparison.

View attachment 728862

You realize that the same argument can be made for bigger players too right? Do we need to list off all the big guys drafted by us that did f*** all?

 

[Twine Tickler]

I'll also add, if we were to ever waste draft capital on a player like Nolan Dillingham I would not be happy about it.

I think it's very important to distinguish the means in which Nolan was "acquired". He earned a minor league contract in camp, and cost us nothing as an organization to acquire him in terms of draft capital. In Fact his affiliation to the Leafs is more or less as acquaintances and we do not own his rights in any way.

I've always been an advocate of prioritizing skill/IQ in the draft and acquiring intangibles like character and grit. Of course if you have a player who has bits and pieces of all of those, all the better. A la Minten and Cowan.

no problem with any of the 6 players we signed to minor league deals TBH. I am actually kind of intrigued by Jackson Berezowski the most. Some pretty good numbers in the dub. The western league is far from the tough days of the past, but it still is likely the toughest Jr league in the CHL to put up pints and gain the middle of the ice. For an undersized player to get that many goals in that league b2b years is not too shabby.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

 

[uncleben]

I guess I'd rather use the spot on someone with NHL upside.

What spot do you think we're using on him?
It's not an ELC, he's not on our reserve list, there's no roster limit for the AHL
He's a young, warm body on our farm team to add competition and he'll likely develop in the ECHL for a bit
If he doesn't earn a regular spot on the roster, then he'll sit and practice and then the team will move on

 

[Mess]

You realize that the same argument can be made for bigger players too right? Do we need to list off all the big guys drafted by us that did f*** all?

Look at it this way..

There are 12 F and 6 D and 2 goalies dressed for each game as team composition regularly.

Well a big player 6 feet and above can fit into everyone of those 20 active roster spots, there is no limits on big players, as nobody would say we have tooo many big players. However how many roster spots would a Cup competitive team use on small < 6 ' 170ish players maybe 5-6 max of the 20 spots and those small players better be pretty special to boot of those 20 spots used if a bigger player can do the same or produce the same because size is always more useful in winning puck battles and more punishing hittting etc etc. ?

S0 big players 20 of 20 spots available while small players 4-6 of 20 roster spots.. If your entire prospect pool is full of small players your decreasing our odds of NHLers and very little help for the parent team.

Teams will always prefer size and strength and with that reach and ice coverage over small waterbugs.

Big player and little players both bust, but little players bust at a higher rate simply because no room on the roster for too many, thus cannibalizing themselves. Little players have to prove they can play, while begger players have to prove they can't.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Wonder if they'll offer an ELC to Albin Sundin. I was seeing his name on twitter alot as an inivte that caught the Leafa brass attention. I think even Modenhaur was quoted as saying he was tough to play against. I doubt he'd sign a minor league deal with us vs. playing in Sweden, but definitely someone to keep an eye on.

Does anyone know if he can be invited to rookie camp? maybe get 1 more look at him before tendering him an ELC? I'd like to see how he competes in the traverse city tournament.