Salary Cap: Marleau's 3rd Year

[Boutette]

very rarely have players waived their nmc and there's little reason to suggest marleau would. he moved his family across the continent to play for a coach he loves and to try and win the cup. there's a little chance he waives his nmc to go back to san jose. another thing to add is that the sharks can't afford karlsson and take on marleau's contract at the same time.

Plenty have waived NMCs and NTCs every year, especially at, say, the trade deadline. Are they going to resign 35 year old Pavelski? 40 year old Thorton, who may not be able to walk, let alone skate next year considering his knees. Meier and Lablanc will need to be signed, but SJ will have around 30 mil to sign Karlsson and others. Do they need Braun, if they've got 3 #1 defencemen. SJ has as much room as the Leafs, especially if the Leafs retain a little. And what is the big difference between moving for 2 years or 3? With Karlsson its not like the Sharks have any less chance of winning the cup than the leafs. If anything they have a better chance.

The whole "moving his family across the continent" thing is especially fatuous. Is is better to move your family for 3 whole years, when you can earn 90+% of the money you've signed up for and get to go back home after only 2 years? Why keep your family away from their lives for a whole extra year for just a few bucks, comparatively? How is that good for your kids and wife?

 

[rent free]

Plenty have waived NMCs and NTCs every year, especially at, say, the trade deadline. Are they going to resign 35 year old Pavelski? 40 year old Thorton, who may not be able to walk, let alone skate next year considering his knees. Meier and Lablanc will need to be signed, but SJ will have around 30 mil to sign Karlsson and others. Do they need Braun, if they've got 3 #1 defencemen. SJ has as much room as the Leafs, especially if the Leafs retain a little. And what is the big difference between moving for 2 years or 3? With Karlsson its not like the Sharks have any less chance of winning the cup than the leafs. If anything they have a better chance.

The sharks acquiring Patrick would unnecessarily hinder their chance at signing karlsson. There's no way they'd even consider trading for Patrick when they have the best defender in the league that needs a new contract. They only have 26 million dollars of cap space with more than half a roster to sign and if erik re-signs, he will take up around half of that figure. That leaves half a team to sign for around 14 million. That doesnt even include any of their current free agents. Guys like pavelski and Thornton are bigger priorities than marleau for the sharks. They sre better players and would sign for cheaper than what Patrick is making. They also have players that need to be re signed. Their restricted free agents are dealt with first and they will take up quite a bit of cap space and then the unrestricted free agents are dealt with. Braun gives their defence depth and there's no way the sharks would sacrifice him for Patrick. The cap will go up by a few million but not enough so that they can absorb patty and fill out the rest of the team. Overall, Patrick is a player that isn't in their best interests right now. They moved on from him last season and they have bigger priorities than him in the following summer.

 

[Boutette]

The sharks acquiring Patrick would unnecessarily hinder their chance at signing karlsson. There's no way they'd even consider trading for Patrick when they have the best defender in the league that needs a new contract. They only have 26 million dollars of cap space with more than half a roster to sign and if erik re-signs, he will take up around half of that figure. That leaves half a team to sign for around 14 million. That doesnt even include any of their current free agents. Guys like pavelski and Thornton are bigger priorities than marleau for the sharks. They sre better players and would sign for cheaper than what Patrick is making. They also have players that need to be re signed. Their restricted free agents are dealt with first and they will take up quite a bit of cap space and then the unrestricted free agents are dealt with. Braun gives their defence depth and there's no way the sharks would sacrifice him for Patrick. The cap will go up by a few million but not enough so that they can absorb patty and fill out the rest of the team. Overall, Patrick is a player that isn't in their best interests right now. They moved on from him last season and they have bigger priorities than him in the following summer.

 

[rent free]

Wouldn't have expected anything else from you.

 

[Boutette]

Wouldn't have expected anything else from you.

Well, if your humor had been funnier, I would have laughed harder. Sorry, that was only one emoji's worth.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

The sharks acquiring Patrick would unnecessarily hinder their chance at signing karlsson. There's no way they'd even consider trading for Patrick when they have the best defender in the league that needs a new contract. They only have 26 million dollars of cap space with more than half a roster to sign and if erik re-signs, he will take up around half of that figure. That leaves half a team to sign for around 14 million. That doesnt even include any of their current free agents. Guys like pavelski and Thornton are bigger priorities than marleau for the sharks. They sre better players and would sign for cheaper than what Patrick is making. They also have players that need to be re signed. Their restricted free agents are dealt with first and they will take up quite a bit of cap space and then the unrestricted free agents are dealt with. Braun gives their defence depth and there's no way the sharks would sacrifice him for Patrick. The cap will go up by a few million but not enough so that they can absorb patty and fill out the rest of the team. Overall, Patrick is a player that isn't in their best interests right now. They moved on from him last season and they have bigger priorities than him in the following summer.

I think if Marleau was going to SJ the constraints would be somewhere around:

a) obviously Marleau still has gas in the tank
b) SJ can still sign Karlsson and their big guys Thornton and Pavelski (they are probably getting reduced contracts, right?)
c) Leafs clear enough space to ensure Gards, Matthews and Marner all get signed

I think there are options where Marleau gets back to SJ:

a) retain 50%?
b) trade to a cap floor team, buy him out, he resigns in SJ for less. But probably more than $1.5m

 

[rent free]

Well, if your humor had been funnier, I would have laughed harder. Sorry, that was only one emoji's worth.

Understandable. Not everyone can fathom what I wrote. Clearly you couldn't.

 

[Boutette]

Understandable. Not everyone can fathom what I wrote. Clearly you couldn't.

Oh, I understood what you wrote. If I didn't it wouldn't have been so funny. Especially where you suggested the Marleau's had a family meeting and decided they'd rather spend 3 years away from home instead of 2, even if it wouldn't make any financial sense doing so (or likely improve his chances of getting that cup he apparently so desperately wants more than all that money he's getting).

 

[kb]

we can only use that LTIR space if we are above the cap or if a leaf player suffers a long term injury. it isn't just cap space that can be used at any time.

Yes, it can be used at any time. He will be put on LTIR should the Leafs require the cap relief, and such the cap space is available to them.

 

[Cappuccino]

I think if Marleau was going to SJ the constraints would be somewhere around:

a) obviously Marleau still has gas in the tank
b) SJ can still sign Karlsson and their big guys Thornton and Pavelski (they are probably getting reduced contracts, right?)
c) Leafs clear enough space to ensure Gards, Matthews and Marner all get signed

I think there are options where Marleau gets back to SJ:

a) retain 50%?
b) trade to a cap floor team, buy him out, he resigns in SJ for less. But probably more than $1.5m

The sharks have: Couture 8, Kane 7, Burns 8, Vlasic 7, Hertl almost 6, Karlsson would be around 11. They need to sign Meier (a raise of a couple of millions) and Labanc and some 3rd and 4th liners to an extension or replace them internally which is difficult because the prospect pool is not that great at the moment. Right now Thornton 5 and Pavelski 6 need to take a huge discount, but probably are unaffordable, let alone Marleau. If they don't resign Karlsson (or trade Burns), it will be possible to give Thornton and Pavelski a contract and trade for Marleau.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Wouldn't have expected anything else from you.

It's really difficult for some Leafs to realize that Marleau has a NMC, not many teams want his cap hit in year three, San Jose and Marleau have grown apart from another, and just because he has 6.25 in 2019/20....it just can't be wished away so some Leaf fans can make a better fantasy roster.

 

[Boutette]

It's really difficult for some Leafs to realize that Marleau has a NMC, not many teams want his cap hit in year three, San Jose and Marleau have grown apart from another, and just because he has 6.25 in 2019/20....it just can't be wished away so some Leaf fans can make a better fantasy roster.

Pity the Leafs are still flailing at the bottom of the league, still stuck with, for example, Phaneuf's, Clarkson's and Kessel's contracts because they couldn't be 'wished away'.

By the way, how is Washington affording Orpik's $5 mil contract, or Pittsburgh managing with Brassard's similar cap hit? Can't be done, you claim.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Pity the Leafs are still flailing at the bottom of the league, still stuck with, for example, Phaneuf's, Clarkson's and Kessel's contracts because they couldn't be 'wished away'.

By the way, how is Washington affording Orpik's $5 mil contract, or Pittsburgh managing with Brassard's similar cap hit? Can't be done, you claim.

Hahahaha nice post!

 

[ACC1224]

It's really difficult for some Leafs to realize that Marleau has a NMC, not many teams want his cap hit in year three, San Jose and Marleau have grown apart from another, and just because he has 6.25 in 2019/20....it just can't be wished away so some Leaf fans can make a better fantasy roster.

Good post.
I'd put the odd's at him playing his 3rd year at about 99%.
There hasn't been one argument made that I've seen that would lower that number, IMO.
Nothing but wishful thinking.

 

[JuanSnow]

The 3rd year on this deal is basically what forces us to bridge Willy. Even if you think you can trade Marleau it's too big of a risk to give Willy a long term deal before he's gone.

 

[rent free]

Pity the Leafs are still flailing at the bottom of the league, still stuck with, for example, Phaneuf's, Clarkson's and Kessel's contracts because they couldn't be 'wished away'.

By the way, how is Washington affording Orpik's $5 mil contract, or Pittsburgh managing with Brassard's similar cap hit? Can't be done, you claim.

brassard's cap hit was retained 40 percent by vegas (only costs 3 million against pittsburgh's salary cap) and he has a modified ntc and oprik's deal is only 1 million dollars, not 5 million dollars. his old deal that was bought out by the avalanche did not include any clauses whatsoever.

phaneuf, clarkson and kessel all had modified ntc, something you seem to have ignored or don't understand. they also played in a toxic environment when they were dealt. that's affects the situation as well.

it seems like your inability to fathom the difference between marleau's situation from any other situation is the issue.

try again.

 

[Boutette]

brassard's cap hit was retained 40 percent by vegas (only costs 3 million against pittsburgh's salary cap) and he has a modified ntc and oprik's deal is only 1 million dollars, not 5 million dollars. his old deal that was bought out by the avalanche did not include any clauses whatsoever.

phaneuf, clarkson and kessel all had modified ntc, something you seem to have ignored or don't understand. they also played in a toxic environment when they were dealt. that's affects the situation as well.

it seems like your inability to fathom the difference between marleau's situation from any other situation is the issue.

try again.

You've already admitted that its been done. No further need from my end.

 

[rent free]

You've already admitted that its been done. No further need from my end.

you haven't looked at existing surroundings as to why its done. that's being delusional at its finest.

 

[Boutette]

you haven't looked at existing surroundings as to why its done. that's being delusional at its finest.

 

[rent free]

Typical response from you. Pathetic.

 

[Boutette]

Typical response from you. Pathetic.

 

[Canada4Gold]

If management decides they're better off trying to get out from in under that 3rd year, here's a reasonable course of action if everyone agrees.

Pay the bonus and trade him to Arizona with a 2nd. Arizona buys him out and he resigns in San Jose for like 2 million.

1. Arizona gets a 2nd and pays 833k over 2 years to acquire a 6.25 cap hit to help them hit the floor
2. Leafs use the pick and signing bonus money to get out from the 3rd year cap hit if necessary
3. Marleau gets more money than he would by playing out the contract, and gets to return to San Jose to end his career
4. San Jose gets a cheaper Marleau that they wouldn't be able to afford by just straight up trading for him
5. They don't have to attempt this LTIR, or retirement and trade to some terrible team to play there for the year crap that's been thrown around.

Everyone's happy.

 

[rent free]

If management decides they're better off trying to get out from in under that 3rd year, here's a reasonable course of action if everyone agrees.

Pay the bonus and trade him to Arizona with a 2nd. Arizona buys him out and he resigns in San Jose for like 2 million.

1. Arizona gets a 2nd and pays 833k over 2 years to acquire a 6.25 cap hit to help them hit the floor
2. Leafs use the pick and signing bonus money to get out from the 3rd year cap hit if necessary
3. Marleau gets more money than he would by playing out the contract, and gets to return to San Jose to end his career
4. San Jose gets a cheaper Marleau that they wouldn't be able to afford by just straight up trading for him
5. They don't have to attempt this LTIR, or retirement and trade to some terrible team to play there for the year crap that's been thrown around.

Everyone's happy.

except marleau, which is why he probably wouldn't agree to this.

 

[Canada4Gold]

except marleau, which is why he probably wouldn't agree to this.

Marleau is getting 1.5 million more than he would play playing out his contract here, returning home to San Jose to play on a stacked team with Burns and possible Karlsson. Exactly what is making him not happy in this situation?

I agree there's a chance he might not agree to it. But there's a much better chance than all the Marleau retires or goes on LTIR and we trade him to Arizona to play stuff that gets thrown around.

 

[ACC1224]

Marleau is getting 1.5 million more than he would play playing out his contract here, returning home to San Jose to play on a stacked team with Burns and possible Karlsson. Exactly what is making him not happy in this situation?

I agree there's a chance he might not agree to it. But there's a much better chance than all the Marleau retires or goes on LTIR and we trade him to Arizona to play stuff that gets thrown around.

and of course the best chance of all, he plays his 3rd year here.