Salary Cap: Marleau's 3rd Year

[nsleaf]

But he will want to stay for the third year, to help defend the Cup.

 

[Canada4Gold]

and of course the best chance of all, he plays his 3rd year here.

Sure, like I said I didn't proclaim this was the likely scenario. The thread is about Marleau's 3rd year. If everyone just said "he stays" it would be a pretty quick thread. I tossed out a potential alternative to the LTIR, or play in Arizona, or retire stuff that's most of what's been tossed around which obviously wouldn't suit Marleau, to a scenario where he's getting more money to return to a place with a great hockey team that he potentially likes as much or more than the Leafs. It's not completely outlandish like the "hey he's gonna do the Leafs a solid and play for Arizona", or "he's gonna retire to help us out" stuff has been

 

[rent free]

Marleau is getting 1.5 million more than he would play playing out his contract here, returning home to San Jose to play on a stacked team with Burns and possible Karlsson. Exactly what is making him not happy in this situation?

I agree there's a chance he might not agree to it. But there's a much better chance than all the Marleau retires or goes on LTIR and we trade him to Arizona to play stuff that gets thrown around.

marleau moved his family across the continent to play for babcock and the leafs. it was a huge decision for him and affected his family life as well. the chances of him moving back to the sharks are low. i believe he's moved on from the sharks. he has a nmc and he is determined to play out the rest of his deal. another thing to note is that karlsson is going to command and will likely receive a huge contract that will cost somewhere like 11 or 12 million dollars against the salary cap. the sharks can't get unnecessary cap hurdles in their way if they want to re sign karlsson. to add to that, they have a bunch of restricted free agents to sign and have guys like thornton and pavelski to re-sign, who are better and will most likely be cheaper players than marleau. the chance that marleau retires or goes on ltir and we trade him to arizona is much lower than what's most likely going to happen, which is marleau playing out his final season in toronto. he still skates great, hasn't missed a game in almost a decade, and is in good condition. all signs point to him playing the third season in toronto. as i've said before he has a nmc and that dictates where he gets moved to, if he gets moved at all and right now it seems unlikely given his conditions.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If management decides they're better off trying to get out from in under that 3rd year, here's a reasonable course of action if everyone agrees.

Pay the bonus and trade him to Arizona with a 2nd. Arizona buys him out and he resigns in San Jose for like 2 million.

1. Arizona gets a 2nd and pays 833k over 2 years to acquire a 6.25 cap hit to help them hit the floor
2. Leafs use the pick and signing bonus money to get out from the 3rd year cap hit if necessary
3. Marleau gets more money than he would by playing out the contract, and gets to return to San Jose to end his career
4. San Jose gets a cheaper Marleau that they wouldn't be able to afford by just straight up trading for him
5. They don't have to attempt this LTIR, or retirement and trade to some terrible team to play there for the year crap that's been thrown around.

Everyone's happy.

Interesting idea. It would seem that there are indeed ways to get out of the 3rd year of Marleau's deal in such a way that everyone's happy. This is probably exactly the kind of thing that was discussed when they made a handshake deal (assuming of course that such a thing was done).

 

[Boutette]

marleau moved his family across the continent to play for babcock and the leafs. it was a huge decision for him and affected his family life as well. the chances of him moving back to the sharks are low. i believe he's moved on from the sharks. he has a nmc and he is determined to play out the rest of his deal. another thing to note is that karlsson is going to command and will likely receive a huge contract that will cost somewhere like 11 or 12 million dollars against the salary cap. the sharks can't get unnecessary cap hurdles in their way if they want to re sign karlsson. to add to that, they have a bunch of restricted free agents to sign and have guys like thornton and pavelski to re-sign, who are better and will most likely be cheaper players than marleau. the chance that marleau retires or goes on ltir and we trade him to arizona is much lower than what's most likely going to happen, which is marleau playing out his final season in toronto. he still skates great, hasn't missed a game in almost a decade, and is in good condition. all signs point to him playing the third season in toronto. as i've said before he has a nmc and that dictates where he gets moved to, if he gets moved at all and right now it seems unlikely given his conditions.

Saying these things over and over again doesn't imprint them in stone. But continuing to imply his family would prefer to be away from their home in CA for 3 years as opposed to 2 is still .

 

[rent free]

Saying these things over and over again doesn't imprint them in stone. But continuing to imply his family would prefer to be away from their home in CA for 3 years as opposed to 2 is still .

It isn't. You just can't get that through your head. You want to believe what you want to happen and ignore realistic factors.

 

[Boutette]

It isn't. You just can't get that through your head. You want to believe what you want to happen and ignore realistic factors.

It not whether I want it to happen, its whether it can happen. You are the one unable to get things through your head.

 

[rent free]

It not whether I want it to happen, its whether it can happen. You are the one unable to get things through your head.

No, that would be you.

 

[Boutette]

No, that would be you.

 

[ACC1224]

Interesting idea. It would seem that there are indeed ways to get out of the 3rd year of Marleau's deal in such a way that everyone's happy. This is probably exactly the kind of thing that was discussed when they made a handshake deal (assuming of course that such a thing was done).

Discussed with Arizona and San Jose or just thrown out there as a "maybe we can do this" type thing?
Seems a lot of stars will need to align for that to happen.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Robidas Island ?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Discussed with Arizona and San Jose or just thrown out there as a "maybe we can do this" type thing?
Seems a lot of stars will need to align for that to happen.

A hypothetical as in you agree that should you decide that you still want to play after two years, you'll agree to a trade. If that's the case then we can't make any guarantees, but we do promise in good faith to do the best we can to get you to a place where you'll be happy, and here's an example of the kind of thing we can try to do to make it happen.

The more I think about it the more I believe he came here for the money. Of course he's not going to say that publicly but moving his family from the place he's called home for so many years across the continent so that he can play for a 95 point team instead of a 99 point team because that's his best chance of winning a cup ... sounds off the charts fishy to me.

 

[ACC1224]

A hypothetical as in you agree that should you decide that you still want to play after two years, you'll agree to a trade. If that's the case then we can't make any guarantees, but we do promise in good faith to do the best we can to get you to a place where you'll be happy, and here's an example of the kind of thing we can try to do to make it happen.

The more I think about it the more I believe he came here for the money. Of course he's not going to say that publicly but moving his family from the place he's called home for so many years across the continent so that he can play for a 95 point team instead of a 99 point team because that's his best chance of winning a cup ... sounds off the charts fishy to me.

I'm sure there was more than one reason why he came.
He has no history of being a mercenary so it's seems unlikely to me that was the main reason.
Perhaps he wanted a chance to play in a hockey mad market, that still offers everything else that's important to him, for a few years before retiring.

I'm looking forward to this season, like no other. Part of me wants to get it over with just to see how this all plays out.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm sure there was more than one reason why he came.
He has no history of being a mercenary so it's seems unlikely to me that was the main reason.
Perhaps he wanted a chance to play in a hockey mad market, that still offers everything else that's important to him, for a few years before retiring.

I'm looking forward to this season, like no other. Part of me wants to get it over with just to see how this all plays out.

Yes, I'm sure you're right that there was more than one reason, I guess what I'm saying is that I now believe that money was the main reason, not the only reason. We may never know for sure, it's possible that there was a handshake deal in place but Marleau plays so well that Dubas decides that we don't want to ditch him for that 3rd year anyway. The only way we'll know for sure that you're right is I guess if he sucks this season and is still back for the 3rd year. We'll see what happens.

 

[BigBlu]

Just a stupid contract from the get-go.

Everyone know when Matthews and Marner came due.

We never needed an old, redundant winger, with plenty of talent in the pipeline.

It was just Lou and Mike getting overly-excited. Total opposite of the Shanaplan. We had the trifecta lined up, and then decided to set our winning ticket on fire.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Just a stupid contract from the get-go.

Everyone know when Matthews and Marner came due.

We never needed an old, redundant winger, with plenty of talent in the pipeline.

It was just Lou and Mike getting overly-excited. Total opposite of the Shanaplan. We had the trifecta lined up, and then decided to set our winning ticket on fire.

Unless there's plan in place to get out from under the 3rd year, then it was an excellent contract (there are no cap issues until next season). Seems like that anyway, that there's no in-between. It was either really stupid, or it was really smart. We'll see.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

The 3rd year on this deal is basically what forces us to bridge Willy. Even if you think you can trade Marleau it's too big of a risk to give Willy a long term deal before he's gone.

As you said, one reason why I didn't really like the Marleau deal. Not the 6.25m isn't fair but the Leafs had plenty of wingers and I thought the cap could be better spent on a Dman or as you say signing some players coming of their ELC.

 

[rent free]

Just a stupid contract from the get-go.

Everyone know when Matthews and Marner came due.

We never needed an old, redundant winger, with plenty of talent in the pipeline.

It was just Lou and Mike getting overly-excited. Total opposite of the Shanaplan. We had the trifecta lined up, and then decided to set our winning ticket on fire.

the marleau and zaitsev deals are what really hurt the team when it comes to cap

 

[BigBlu]

the marleau and zaitsev deals are what really hurt the team when it comes to cap

Meh, at least with Z they thought they were locking up a young improving cost-controlled RH d-man.

Literally the very first thing I did when I saw they signed Marleau was to check to see how his contract years over-lapped Matthews/Marner. Not a happy day in this Leaf fan's house. These RFA contracts are always more than you project beforehand. We left no wiggle-room for the players we needed to prioritize. And really, for what?

 

[mouser]

If management decides they're better off trying to get out from in under that 3rd year, here's a reasonable course of action if everyone agrees.

Pay the bonus and trade him to Arizona with a 2nd. Arizona buys him out and he resigns in San Jose for like 2 million.

1. Arizona gets a 2nd and pays 833k over 2 years to acquire a 6.25 cap hit to help them hit the floor
2. Leafs use the pick and signing bonus money to get out from the 3rd year cap hit if necessary
3. Marleau gets more money than he would by playing out the contract, and gets to return to San Jose to end his career
4. San Jose gets a cheaper Marleau that they wouldn't be able to afford by just straight up trading for him
5. They don't have to attempt this LTIR, or retirement and trade to some terrible team to play there for the year crap that's been thrown around.

Everyone's happy.

Why would Arizona buy him out when it's more cost effective to just keep him for the year?

Why would Marleau agree to be traded to Arizona if that's the possible outcome?


Also: note in your hypothetical situation Marleau couldn't be bought out until late July as the regular buyout window closes before July 1st. And it would require AZ has a player file for arbitration.

 

[rent free]

Meh, at least with Z they thought they were locking up a young improving cost-controlled RH d-man.

Literally the very first thing I did when I saw they signed Marleau was to check to see how his contract years over-lapped Matthews/Marner. Not a happy day in this Leaf fan's house. These RFA contracts are always more than you project beforehand. We left no wiggle-room for the players we needed to prioritize. And really, for what?

ZAITSEV should have gotten a shot term deal but Lou rushed to sign him. If you have time use it, my ass.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Why would Arizona buy him out when it's more cost effective to just keep him for the year?

Why would Marleau agree to be traded to Arizona if that's the possible outcome?


Also: note in your hypothetical situation Marleau couldn't be bought out until late July as the regular buyout window closes before July 1st. And it would require AZ has a player file for arbitration.

Why would Vegas trade Brassard to Pittsburgh 40% retained for just Reaves and a 4th after the first parts of the Brassard to PIT 3 way trade would have had them rip Ottawa off?



The answer is because it all all agreed to in advance and Vegas screwing over the other teams after doing just the first of 4 transactions wouldn't have went over well.

Sure Arizona could agree to trade for Marleau and buy him out(which would be a part of the dialogue and agreement) only to go back on that, but that wouldn't be good for future transactions to screw the plan over when it favours you. Same reasons Vegas didn't do that.

And I'm aware they'd have to have the 2nd buyout window triggered for this to work, I mentioned that in the other thread I brought this scenario up in. But I tried to make this explaination shorter, so I left out that 1 detail. It's not a given, but if Arizona wanted to do this trade I'm sure they could make it work to leave an arb eligible guy unsigned.