Sportsnet: Marleau only wants to play in SJ, will require direct trade or trade to team who buys him out.

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Are Maple Leafs fans generally on board with Marleau and Johnsson or Kapanen for future considerations?

 

[Divine]

Since you’re obviously not interested in listening, here’s my challenge to you:

Name one player who was traded since 2005 when the salary cap went into effect where the trading team agreed to pay the signing bonus.

Thats 15 years of trades where many teams would have loved to paid the signing bonus money for a better return but weren’t allowed to.

So, there's nothing in the CBA about it?

 

[Divine]

Are Maple Leafs fans generally on board with Marleau and Johnsson or Kapanen for future considerations?

They'd rather keep Marleau for a year.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

They'd rather keep Marleau for a year.

I don't think that's an option at this point.

 

[Divine]

I don't think that's an option at this point.

Why not? Can't they just trade Nathan Horton instead? At least Marleau can still put up ~20 goals and ~40 points.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

To revert to this, not much said about signing bonuses at all in the CBA. Mainly player bonuses, so I assume it could be split.



Where does it say a team cannot agree to pay the signing bonus on a current player?

Probably the part where you can’t just pay cash to offload a player. Cash and cap move proportionally in the CBA it’s quite fundamental outside of maybe a couple edge cases. But I doubt one of those edge cases would be so that a team can escape a cap hit by paying dollars.

 

[Divine]

Probably the part where you can’t just pay cash to offload a player. Cash and cap move proportionally in the CBA it’s quite fundamental outside of maybe a couple edge cases. But I doubt one of those edge cases would be so that a team can escape a cap hit by paying dollars.

You're not paying cash to offload a player. You're paying the player's signing bonus that you would have otherwise paid by trading the player at a later date.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Why not? Can't they just trade Nathan Horton instead? At least Marleau can still put up ~20 goals and ~40 points.

It seems pretty clear that they’ve burned a bridge there and Marleau could become a toxic presence if they force him to report to camp.

 

[Divine]

It seems pretty clear that they’ve burned a bridge there and Marleau could become a toxic presence if they force him to report to camp.

Marleau never said he wanted out of Toronto. Toronto asked him to waive his NMC to trade him from Toronto, and he said he would only waive for SJ. He never said he doesn't want to be in Toronto. Patrick Marleau is the last player that comes to mind when I think of a 'toxic presence'. That's quite a reach.

Matthews and Marner are really close with Marleau also.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

You're not paying cash to offload a player. You're paying the player's signing bonus that you would have otherwise paid by trading the player at a later date.

You are paying unearned dollars that are not going to be tied to a cap consequence.

 

[Divine]

You are paying unearned dollars that are not going to be tied to a cap consequence.

Where in the CBA does it say that's not allowed?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Where in the CBA does it say that's not allowed?

It’s a fundamental tenet of the cap. It’s highly unlikely to be allowed and I would not trust MSM reporting on CBA caveats after how everyone reported on the Nylander hold out.

 

[Divine]

It’s a fundamental tenet of the cap. It’s highly unlikely to be allowed and I would not trust MSM reporting on CBA caveats after how everyone reported on the Nylander hold out.

The Leafs can always just wait for the signing bonus to be paid before trading him if that's the deal-breaker. Not a huge issue. I would think that the league might allow it as the team simply just has to delay the trade otherwise. It's not as if there's no way for the original team to pay the signing bonus with the current rules.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

The Leafs can always just wait for the signing bonus to be paid before trading him if that's the deal-breaker. Not a huge issue. I would think that the league might allow it as the team simply just has to delay the trade otherwise. It's not as if there's no way for the original team to pay the signing bonus with the current rules.

They can, though I caught something at one point suggesting that half of Marleaus SB is paid July 1 and the other half in Dec. But it is what it is.

Could be we’re just waiting around for July 1. This is a bit above my pay grade (of $0 for CBA related matters), but I wouldn’t be surprised if July 1 is a date of significance for when it is known for sure that the SB is off the cap AND off the balance sheet.

For example, there are trades you can legally make on the draft floor (I.e., how much cap you can have on the books going into the next season when taking into consideration PB) that you wouldn’t otherwise be able to make if you didn’t have that cap hit officially off the books. So there is an opportunity cost associated to “shrugging off” the fact that you’d otherwise just wait to pay the SB and trade on July 1. Let alone the value of knowing for sure that trade is still going to be there after the draft.

 

[Cappuccino]

Are Maple Leafs fans generally on board with Marleau and Johnsson or Kapanen for future considerations?

I also like the Sharks, but I wouldn't do it (or want to do it) as a Leafs fan. Because I don't know the other options available, it is hard to evaluate.

Imagine the Leafs do this and then Marner signs an offersheet which the Leafs don't match and have like 6M in cap left. That would be something.

 

[Divine]

They can, though I caught something at one point suggesting that half of Marleaus SB is paid July 1 and the other half in Dec. But it is what it is.

Could be we’re just waiting around for July 1. This is a bit above my pay grade (of $0 for CBA related matters), but I wouldn’t be surprised if July 1 is a date of significance for when it is known for sure that the SB is off the cap AND off the balance sheet.

For example, there are trades you can legally make on the draft floor (I.e., how much cap you can have on the books going into the next season when taking into consideration PB) that you wouldn’t otherwise be able to make if you didn’t have that cap hit officially off the books. So there is an opportunity cost associated to “shrugging off” the fact that you’d otherwise just wait to pay the SB and trade on July 1. Let alone the value of knowing for sure that trade is still going to be there after the draft.

Remember, teams can exceed the cap in the offseason for that reason. So, no real opportunity cost by waiting. If the Leafs wanted to make a trade that took them above the cap on June 25th, they could. There's no harm in waiting.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Why not? Can't they just trade Nathan Horton instead? At least Marleau can still put up ~20 goals and ~40 points.

Horton will be on LTIR, don’t think he plays much into the picture.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Remember, teams can exceed the cap in the offseason for that reason. So, no real opportunity cost by waiting. If the Leafs wanted to make a trade that took them above the cap on June 25th, they could. There's no harm in waiting.

There is harm in waiting.

 

[Divine]

There is harm in waiting.

What harm?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

What harm?

I said in my post explaining the opportunity cost. The fact you can exceed is moot to that explanation, and that wasn’t the only point I made.

 

[Divine]

I said in my post explaining the opportunity cost. The fact you can exceed is moot to that explanation, and that wasn’t the only point I made.

If you know you can trade a player on July 2nd and that you can take on additional salary (above the cap in the offseason), what is preventing you from trading for a player before July 1st?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

If you know you can trade a player on July 2nd and that you can take on additional salary (above the cap in the offseason), what is preventing you from trading for a player before July 1st?

I covered the part about whether or not you really know you can trade that player July 2.

 

[Divine]

I covered the part about whether or not you really know you can trade that player July 2.

Well, if you can't trade the player then the whole post is redundant because it doesn't matter if you wait or not - you can't afford to make the trade.

So, no harm in waiting either way.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Well, if you can't trade the player then the whole post is redundant because it doesn't matter if you wait or not - you can't afford to make the trade.

So, no harm in waiting either way.

I said there could be trades available on the draft floor that aren’t available after free agency starts.

 

[Divine]

I said there could be trades available on the draft floor that aren’t available after free agency starts.

If you want to make them, you make them.