Speculation: Mark Stone Mega-Thread - Part 3

[Bounces R Way]

I was using him as an example, but lets see where Stone is in 7 years. At this point in his age 26 season, Bergeron had a cup and a gold medal. He won his first selke after his age 26 season. It's not Mark Stone's fault that the NHL didn't go to the Olympics and he was drafted by Ottawa so he hasn't won a cup. He's an excellent player. Of the RW in the league, I'd take Kucherov and Kane over him, probably. That's it. Mostly because they are so dominant offensively, but I think you could make a case that Stone has similar value. Kane makes $10.5m. Kucherov, $9.5 and took a home town discount. Voracek makes $8.25M. Kessel makes $8m. Taraseko, $7.5. Given most of those guys signed their deals when the cap was in the mid $70m range, and Stone is better than all of them, I think $10m for him is easily defensible.

Let's reframe a little. Over the past 2 seasons, Stone is 6th in the NHL for RW in P/GP. He has 28 PPP in that time period and he was deployed in the Ozone 52% of the time. Of the 5 guys ahead of him, the one with the next fewest PPP is Patrick Kane with 50. The next closest in deployment is Wheeler at 59%. Stone has the highest even strength ppg of any RW in hockey the last 2 years.

Now his linemates.

Kane's most common line is Strome and Debrincat.
Kucherov's is Johnson and Point
Rantanen is Mac and Landeskog
Wheeler plays with Scheifele and Connor or Ehlers.
Kessel plays with Malkin and Hagelin or Pearson.

Mark Stone plays with Colin White and Brady Tkachuk.

Would you pay $10m a year for Mark Stone if he was RW to Marchand and Bergeron? He's be on a top PP unit, be deployed 60% in the offensive zone and have prolific linemates like everyone above him in scoring. Is it reasonable to think that he is a 1.25 PPG player in those circumstances if hes a 1.0 PPG player in his current circumstances? That is a 100 point player.

Frankly, i think the argument AGAINST stone getting $10m a year is pretty flimsy.

Kucherov has two 100pt seasons and five seasons better than any Stone has put up so far. Kane had 3 cups, a Conn Smythe, and won an Art Ross with 106pts the year Chicago gave him that contract. He has 123pts in 127 playoff games, compared to Stone's 13 in 27. Tarasenko also has four seasons better than Stone's career high, including four 30+ goal campaigns. Kessel and Voracek ya I'd probably take Stone over them, but again they've had seasons better than him as well.

Stone's best scoring finish ever was tied with four other players for 30th. He's 7th in RW scoring, 11th for wingers, and 25th overall right now. Duchene has a higher pts/gp this year. Maybe some people see a 100pt player there, I'm not one of them, and personally paying eight figures for a guy who might be a 100pt player I see as bad business. You give someone that kind of contract who already is a 100pt player. But we live in a world where Eichel and Matthews got huge $$$ despite never breaking 70pts, so maybe I just don't know the price of butter and Stone will too. Stone doing what he is with linemates like that is impressive, especially him managing to be a positive CF% player on a team as poor possession wise as the Sens, but I think suggesting his production would explode in better conditions is wishful thinking. Loui Eriksson had three 70pt seasons with Dallas around the same age Stone is now and was touted as one of the game's top 2way wingers before going to a better team in Boston. He mostly disappointed there, and is disappointing now in Vancouver.

 

[tntkid]

Hoping this Stone drama drags out until the very last minute so the Jets can go and acquire Hayes from the Rangers without a major bidding war.

 

[Whileee]

Delete.

 

[Whileee]

Hoping this Stone drama drags out until the very last minute so the Jets can go and acquire Hayes from the Rangers without a major bidding war.

Jets waiting to see if E Staal hits the market, too...

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I've seen some optomistic posts about Abramov since OTT aquired him, but yet all noses down on Petan being involed in any potential trade with WPG. Petan who's put up better numbers in junior and ppg in the A. Not saying he's a significant asset, but someone who can jump immediately into your lineup and could flourish with an opportunity he wasnt able to get in WPG.

In terms of development and opportunity for what a player can grow into, there's a huge difference between a soon to be 21 year old take 3 drafts ago, and a soon to be 24 year old taken 6 drafts ago.

The difference is Pecan is nearly 24 years old and has yet to stick in the NHL. If this was 3 years ago with his resume at the time, yes people would be thrilled about his possible inclusion, and Jets fans would hope that he wasn't in the trade.

 

[Seanaconda]

Jets waiting to see if E Staal hits the market, too...

I’m pretty sure he is available with the wild seemingly making rebuild trades .

 

[Hunter368]

I’m pretty sure he is available with the wild seemingly making rebuild trades .

Love to get Staal

 

[Whileee]

Love to get Staal

I think the Jets would love to get Staal.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Stone
Andersson

For

Neal
Smith
2019 1st
Dube
Mangiapane

 

[blankall]

I'd join my brother before I'd play for my home town team. I did not even know he had a brother. Advantage Calgary.

It's going to be real awkward when Calgary potentially buys out their existing Stone in the off-season.

 

[Seanaconda]

It's going to be real awkward when Calgary potentially buys out their existing Stone in the off-season.

If the good stone wants him to stay they would probably keep him. Dallas made the mistake of trading the bad benn and now Jamie is garbage

 

[tntkid]

Jets waiting to see if E Staal hits the market, too...

Lots of other options out there available.

Jets should never put all their eggs in one basket.

 

[blankall]

If the good stone wants him to stay they would probably keep him. Dallas made the mistake of trading the bad benn and now Jamie is garbage

Keeping both Stones and re-signing Tkachuk is going to take some real cap magic. I've stated that Brodie may be on the way out if Stone is brought in, as Rasmus Andersson looks legit in the top 4. Even then, it might not even be possible to make the cap if both Brodie and Frolik are moved, and both Stones are kept.

You're right though, if there's a will there's a way. The Flames could probably find a taker for Derek Ryan. He has 2 years left on his deal, and has been an absolute rock in our bottom six.

I'd hate to see players like Brodie, Frolik, and Ryan go, but Stone is on a whole other level of good.

Next, what's the price:

1st
Kylington
+

I'd only be willing to move Kylington if there's discussion with Stone ahead of time about him staying.

 

[Flair Hay]

in which they got Reaves for taking 2m if his cap. 2m they weren't going to use this year.

Ah okay gotcha. I was still rolling with an outdated understanding of the trade.

Damn picking up Reeves worked out quite well too.

Maybe I shouldn't be so worried about Vegas after all.

 

[Seanaconda]

Keeping both Stones and re-signing Tkachuk is going to take some real cap magic. I've stated that Brodie may be on the way out if Stone is brought in, as Rasmus Andersson looks legit in the top 4. Even then, it might not even be possible to make the cap if both Brodie and Frolik are moved, and both Stones are kept.

You're right though, if there's a will there's a way. The Flames could probably find a taker for Derek Ryan. He has 2 years left on his deal, and has been an absolute rock in our bottom six.

I'd hate to see players like Brodie, Frolik, and Ryan go, but Stone is on a whole other level of good.

Next, what's the price:

1st
Kylington
+

I'd only be willing to move Kylington if there's discussion with Stone ahead of time about him staying.

That James Neal deal is really hurting you guys hey ( well is going to ) . Hopefully he finds his game

 

[blankall]

That James Neal deal is really hurting you guys hey ( well is going to ) . Hopefully he finds his game

Prior to this injury, he was actually starting to look not bad. He has also been insanely snake bitten this year. I actually like a lot of the things he does, and his attitude. I think he was a great influence on Sam Bennett. We are, however, paying about 2.5 million too much for Neal, and the Flames need every little bit of cap space. You can't win em all though. This summer we also signed several absolute steals, including Lindholm and Hanifin.

 

[JetsFan815]

Not everyone shares these opinions but it’s funny to see Abramov labeled as a C level prospect but Stanley and Samberg are A level prospects.

Literally no Jets fan is going to say that Stanley is an "A" level prospect. Although neither is Abramov.

If the Jets were making an offer, Abramov's value is similar to Michael Spacek's on the Jets, a guy a year older than Abramov who produced at a slightly higher rate than Abramov at the same age in the AHL although Abramov outproduced him in the CHL. You can quibble which one has higher value and I think Abramov has slightly higher value but it is roughly the same ballpark

Davidsson value wise is lower than Mason Appleton (who has been much more more impressive in the AHL than Davidsson has been in the SHL and his game has proven to be translatable to the NHL) who has been offered in trade proposals in these threads.

1st round pick + Spacek + Appleton is right in line with what the Sens got for Duchene minus the conditional 1st. Similar proposals have been made in previous iterations of this thread, often shot down by Sens fans.

None of these prospects are A level like a Vesalainen or Niku.

 

[JetsFan815]

The difference is Pecan is nearly 24 years old and has yet to stick in the NHL. If this was 3 years ago with his resume at the time, yes people would be thrilled about his possible inclusion, and Jets fans would hope that he wasn't in the trade.

Why do you keep calling him Pecan? His name is Petan. The man deserves enough respect to have his name typed correctly.

 

[NorthCoast]

Growing up his favorite teams were and ...and his brother plays in Calgary

He did like the Jets until he was 4 years old, but who really remembers that verses the passion for hockey that is developed later in life.

I'm not really sure any of this matters though, because as far as I know, Mark Stone does not have any say in where he is going. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If he’s open to resigning it has a huge impact.

 

[Korpse]

Literally no Jets fan is going to say that Stanley is an "A" level prospect. Although neither is Abramov.

If the Jets were making an offer, Abramov's value is similar to Michael Spacek's on the Jets, a guy a year older than Abramov who produced at a slightly higher rate than Abramov at the same age in the AHL although Abramov outproduced him in the CHL. You can quibble which one has higher value and I think Abramov has slightly higher value but it is roughly the same ballpark

Davidsson's value wise is lower than Mason Appleton (who has been much more more impressive in the AHL than Davidsson has been in the SHL and his game has proven to be translatable to the NHL) who has been offered in trade proposals in these threads.

1st round pick + Spacek + Appleton is right in line with what the Sens got for Duchene minus the conditional 1st. Similar proposals have been made in previous iterations of this thread, often shot down by Sens fans.

None of these prospects are A level like a Vesalainen or Niku.

There was a post earlier today which called Stanley an A level prospect, and there are others who seem unwilling to part with him. There's a reason I specifically said not everyone thinks that, I just found it funny is all. Just like not everyone is turning down offers not involving Vesalainen or Niku. I don't think Spacek + Appleton would work because I think getting a D prospect is pretty important but I tend to believe that a similar offer is something that could work for both sides.

 

[Jozay]

He's definitely going to either Calgary or Winnipeg

 

[Duffalufagus]

It's going to be real awkward when Calgary potentially buys out their existing Stone in the off-season.

Exactly. The brother thing is a red herring. Unless he, and baby tkachuk (who lives with stone) have nothing but glowing things to say about the flames. That may carry some weight.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Why do you keep calling him Pecan? His name is Petan. The man deserves enough respect to have his name typed correctly.

I legitimately thought this entire time we were talking about trading lunches.

 

[koth]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the TSN radio affiliate in Ottawa said he would find it very surprising if Stone didn't land in Winnipeg. I guess take that however you will.

 

[Bristo]

yet to stick in the NHL

I think you mean “Yet to stick on the one team he’s ever been on, all the while the top 6 being stacked”.

Petan is a regular player on a bunch of NHL rosters, certainly on Ottawa’s.