Confirmed with Link: Mark Kelley/Ryan Stewart let go

[Kevin Musto]

I'd take and play Nolan Allan (never seen him play), hell Ethan Allan over McCabe, Gus, or Caleb Jones. I've seen all three play and they're useless.

Sorry but Nolan Allan isn't better than any of those guys right now.

 

[hawksfan50]

I have researched the Mark Kelley draft record file....True Stan had final say...butstill Kelley as head of
amateur scouting ran 13 drafts from 2009 through 2021.. Drafted 105 players...

The #of picks had in each of these drafts:


2009 (7)
2010 (10)
2011 (11)
2012 (6)
2013 (8)
2014 (9)
2015 (7)
2016 (8)
2017 (9)
2018 (8)
2019 (6)
2020 (8)
2021 (8)

It is too early to assess the lastc2 drafts since no one from them has made the NHL for a secured full season job yet with the Show....


However from the 11 drafts prior we get the info to assess those drafts :

Of 89 picks under Kelley's watch in the drafts from 2009 thru 2019, we find only 3 are currently regulars with the current but 13 are still in the NHL on other teans main rosters...I have left out those who are on AhL rosters or on other teans' AHL rosters who were drafted under Kelley.

Kelley of course had no oversight of trades of drafted players...that was Stan ...so we shipped some draftees out and brought other draftees in.


Some years we did not have a 1st or 2nd rounder..


All the above history goes into our oister construction today explaining why so few of the 89 picks are on our team from the x009 through 2019 drafts...


Still one might think good teams will have more than just 3/89 over 11 consecutive drafts before the last 2 drafts who have jobs on their team.

I think this is an Indictment of Kelley....but mitigated by the fact that 13 other players he put forth to pick from these 11 drafts are still playing on NHL rosters today.
So we rather could criticize the failure to keep and to develop our own picks instead of trading them for other draftees or picks from other teams.

It would be interesting to see how many picks in these 11 drafts have made their drafting team's roster and are still there today out of the #of picks their team had over these 11 drafts.....and how many were traded to other teams but are still on NHL rosters today.

But I do not have that information.

Of course where you pick in rounds 1 and 2 (where you get the highest number of draftees who make NHL rosters affects the success rate and we know Hawks did not get that many high first and or 2nd rounders in several of these 11 drafts from 2009 through 2019.


Still...I think ONLy 3 /89 draftes of these 11 drafts 2009 trough 2019 on the Hawks is just not good enough....


A 2nd way to examine the Kelley record is to do an alternative draft for each draft 2009 through 2019 drafts to see who could be on the Hawks today had they drafted those players instead of who they took....obviously those alternative choices were still on the board when the Hawks selected in each found...

So starting tomorrow I will review each draft from 2009 through 2019 to see what our draft Could have been instead!

If we would have more than just 3 draftees fron thrse e drafts playong for us today ....and or If they would have more impact than the 3 current ones we employ today in the Hawks from this 11 draft year period,tgen tgat certainly would make the case Kelley blew it!

So I will start doing that comparison tomorrow.

 

[clydesdale line]

 

[Kevin Musto]

Mark Kelley thought Nolan Allan was the best player in the draft, because he was the only player he watched

 

[Toews2Bickell]

really seems like stan, mark kelley and co tuned out their staff over time

 

[Kevin Musto]

really seems like stan, mark kelley and co tuned out their staff over time

Of course they would. They're the smartest guys in the room.

 

[ClydeLee]

Just recent Allan play

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Just recent Allan play

 

[hawksfan50]

So ..after correcting the typos of my post yesterday criticizing Kelley for the he fact we only have 3 draftees from the 11 drafts(89 players selected) from 2009 through 2019 playing on the Hawks today,and with the proviso that 20/20 hindsight helps this look into who we might have drafted instead since they were still on the board,I will now start that review..

I will post one thread for each of the 11 consecutive drafts from 2009 through 2019.,so as not to make a post super super long.

So here is the review Nd alternative draft for 2009:


We drafted:

Rd. 1 #28 Dylan Olsen
Rd. 2 #59 Brandon Pirri
Rd. 3 #89 Daniel Deslisle
Rd.4 #119 Byron Froese
Rd. 5 #149 Marcus Kruger
Rd. 6 #177 David Pacan
Rd 7 #209 David Gilbert


Alernatie Draft based on who still was on the board when we selected with where they were picked by other teams in brackets:


@ # 28 Ryan O'Reilly (33)
@ #59 Brayden McNabb (66)*
- others still available Tomas Tatar (60)
Tyson Barrie (64)
@ #89 Casey Cizikas (92)
or Marcus Foligno (104)

@119 Mike Hoffman (130)
or Ben Charlot (120)

@#149 Anders Lee(152)
OR Darcy Kemper (161)

@ #177 Erik Haula (182)

@ 209 David Gilbert (nobody after hom became an NHLer either)


I think you woukd alk agree what we could have drafted was a lit better than our actual drFt.


The only player from our 2009 drFt who was a legit NHLer was Marcus Kruger as a 4th line..

The players we coukd have drafted were all better than him and we could have had a terrific draft had we drafted tge alternative picks I have shown were available.

Verdict: Kelley and his scouts blew the 2009 draft no question!


Next I will post on the 2010 draft and its possible alternative.

 

[jls24]

I'd be amazing at drafting if I knew how the next 12 years of everyone's careers played out.

 

[hawksfan50]

So here us our 2010 draft compared to who we might have drafted instead:

Our 2010 draft:

Rd. 1 #24 Kevin Hayes
Rd. 2 #35 Ludwig Rensfeldt
Rd. 2 #54 Justin Holl
Rd.. 2. #58 Kent Simoson
Rd. 2 #60 Stephen Johns
Rd 3 #90 Joakim Nordstrom
Rd.4 #120 Rob Flick
Rd 5 No picks
Rd 6 #151 Mariko Hoeflin
Rd 6 # 180 Nick Matson
Rd. 7 # 191 MacCarruth


So 1 legit top 6 or top 9 Center (but unfortunately K Hayes refused to sign with thecHawks and so we go Zero for him).
Cannot blame Kelley for that because when we drafted K. Hayes he probably had not decided to spurn the Hawks 4 years later ...that came after tge Hawks traded Jimmy Hayes his brother whovtgeyvaxquuredin a trade and hevokayedxacfewcseasobs for tgecHawks with marginal effect...Afterctradibg Jimmy K.Hayes probably was very angry at the Hawks which made his decision to go colkege free agent easy.


Justin Holl..and Joakim Nordstrom are NHLers though only with marginal impact..Holl = 6th orc7th d...Nordstrom as 4th liner . Stephen Johns was progressing with Dallas into a regular 3rd or potentially 2bd pairing dnan till injuries ruined his career.


So this was a decent draft for 4 NHLers but for tge HawksNordstrom played games as as 4th liner for a few years before we traded him....


Overall no player we took from this draft is playing for ChicGo today


Cannot blame Kelley for K Hayes pick or for trades Stan made ...or for bad injury luck even if we had kept Stephen Johns.

But overall this draft not very good for Hawks the

Now the alternative draft we could have had instead:


@#24 Evgeny Kuznetsov (26)
Or Brock Nelson (30)*

*I recall we originally had the 30th pick but traded it to manoeuvre in the draft...


@ #35 Justin Faulk (#37)
Or Tyler Toffoli (47)


@ #54 Jason Zucker (59)

@ #58 Radko Gudas (66)

@ # 60 Stephen Johns =same ; no idea we would not have kept him to develop rather trade ...orctgat hevwoukd have serious injury hampering his career.

@ #90....Joonas Donskoi. (99)

@ #120 ....John Klingberg (133(
Or Zack Hyman (123)

@#151 ...Mark Stone (178)

There were no better picks for #180 and #191 that had any more than the bust impacts of Who we picked in those spots so I guess Kelley coukd have picked who we got here.

However the alternative picks upto and including pick #151 that I suggest woukd have nDe anotger terrific draft.

Instead Kelley blew it just like in thec2009 draft.

We could have done so much better and several of the alternatives suggested coukd still be playong for us and starring had be just picked them instead of so many busts for is.


Verdict :Kelley also blew the 2010 draft.. coukd have be so good ..instead pretty bad for us.


I will review the 2011 and 2012 drafts tomorrow and again compare to what we could have had instead. Had Kelley advised Stan differently with better judgement.

 

[Northernhawk]

He drafted FOUR NHLers in that draft…FOUR! By my findings only 80 players from that draft would be considered NHLers… Chicago had 4 out of 80, 20%

Kevin Hayes was drafted 24th and he ranks 24th in overall GP in NHL from that draft class…seems fine by me…

 

[RememberTheRoar]

He drafted FOUR NHLers in that draft…FOUR! By my findings only 80 players from that draft would be considered NHLers… Chicago had 4 out of 80, 20%

Kevin Hayes was drafted 24th and he ranks 24th in overall GP in NHL from that draft class…seems fine by me…

Your math is wrong.

 

[Kevin Musto]

He drafted FOUR NHLers in that draft…FOUR! By my findings only 80 players from that draft would be considered NHLers… Chicago had 4 out of 80, 20%

I think your math is off

 

[Giovi]

Your math is wrong.

Yeah, but only horrendously...

 

[hawksfan50]

Continuing my review of Kelley's 11 drafts from 2009 through 2019,this morning I will review the 2011 and 2012 drafts (I posted reviews of the 2009 and 2010 drafts above and concluded he blew them because he did not select enough good players and we could have had a lot better due to who he might have recommended to Stan who we could have taken instead...again with the proviso that hindsight isx20/20...


So now the 2011 draft for tge Hawks in review:


Rd. 1 #18 Mark McNeil = total bust

#25 Phillips Danault = top 3C or 4C
so good pick...but Stan trade him
to MTL for Weise and Fleischmann
which was not Kelkey's fault but
on Stan.

Rd 2 #36 Adam Clendenning
..... bust... horrible pick especially considering who was available to take.

#43 Brandon Saad ....good pick*
* even though I had said he was
awful and to Avodart taking him,
Kelley and his staff were correct
in discounting how badly his
injury in thecfirst half of his
draft year affected his play
when he returned... I was wrong
in not accounting for the not fully
recovered to full capability after
returning to play the final part of
that season.


Rd 3 #70 Michael Paliotta = bust

#79 Klas Dahlbeck= cup of coffee in
the Show with the Hawks...some
time for other NHL teams...

Overall Rd 3 not goid for the Hawks.

Rd 4.. #109 Max Shalunov
=played a season for our
AhL farm team then bolted for
the KHL spending many seasons...
So we shall never know ...but he might
have helped with hiscsize as a 3C or 3W.
Cannot blame Kelley that Shalunov
back to Russia ...might have been a solid
3rd liner for us if he had stayed and
developed on the farm then got his
chance on the big club.

Rd. 5 #139 Andrew Shaw
= home run!:

* I pleaded for us to draft him ...though
I did not expect hom to go till later
rounds than this.
ALSO , considering we got D-Cat
when we traded Shaw years later
to Montreal with the 2nd rounder
we got for trading Shaw ;it makes
thec Shaw pick in 2011,the greatest
pick for value return that Kelley ever
made!
Double Home Run!

Rd 6 #169 Sam Jardine =bust

Rd.7 #199 Alex Broadhurst = bust ...AHLer
# 211 Johan Mattson = bust


3 legit NHLers out of this draft... Danault Saad Shaw ...but marred by too many busts and
esoecialky the strike out on Mark McNeill that set us back a lot because you cannot afford a bustveith a first rounder.


So a mixed bag draft..some very good picks but too many busts .


Now consider what we could have drafted if Kelley was morec astute: (where the alternatives got selected in brackets).


@ #18 Richard Rakell (30)

@ #36 Nikita Kucherov (58)*

* i had advocated for Kucherov at either #36 or #43 with ourc2nd rounders...
I woukdcalsonhave accepted Boone Jenner (37) at #36 then Kucherov at #43..or Kuchefiv at #36 then Saad at #43 as he woukd have been there still.

The Clendenning pick at #36 ruined what could have been a Great 2nf round instead of only getting Saad.

@ #43 Saad ...unless we had taken Jenner at #36 then Kucherov instead of Saad at #43

@ #70 Blake Coleman (75)

@ #79 Jordan Bennington (88)

@ # 109 Maxim Shalunov ...but only IF
we had taken Kucherov in round 2...

If we had taken Kucherov maybe
Shalunov never bolts to the KHL....

SINCE we only took 1 Russian maybe
Shalunov felt homesick...but with a
Russian friend here maybe he sticks it
out over here.?

BUT since we did not take Kucherov maybe
Kelley shoukd have stick to Morth American players with this pick..

So @ #109 we coukd have taken Sean Kuraly
(133)

@ #139 Andrew Shaw ...no change...great pick.


@ # 169 Ondrej Palat (208)

@# 199 and # 211 cannot see any alternatives who also were not busts like Broadhurst and Mattson ...so accept who we picked and it makes no difference.


Still Rakell Kucherov Coleman Bennington Palat in addition to Danault Saad and Shaw ...well it Could have been a fantastic draft insteadvof another mixed bag only for Kelley.

Vetdict :sone good picks but again too may busts and missed opportunities by Kelley.

 

[Pez68]

He drafted FOUR NHLers in that draft…FOUR! By my findings only 80 players from that draft would be considered NHLers… Chicago had 4 out of 80, 20%

Kevin Hayes was drafted 24th and he ranks 24th in overall GP in NHL from that draft class…seems fine by me…

 

[Drumman44]

I know who I am asking for change for a $20

 

[giza]

Not that the Hawks scouting is in disarray, I think they should be trading for more prospects instead of draft picks....trust the other team's scouting

 

[hawksfan50]

Continuing my review of Kelley's drafts from 2009 through 2019 (I am not reviewing his 2020 and 2021 drafts= too soon as picks not yet given real chance to be ready enough to try to the a spot with the Hawks).....


So now reviewing thec2012 Draft for the Hawks:


Rd #1 #18 Teuvo Terravainen ...
= Good pick ...but Stan had no patience
to keep him till he was experienced
and matured as an NHL pro.
You cannt blame Kelley for Stan's
impatience.

WE could have picked a franchise goalie
Andrei Vasilevski instead but that is
hindsight and Stan never took Russians
. or goalies in roubd 1 that high...

The botyom line though is wasted opportunity on either player because we got nothing to show for this pick today.

But the blamebon Stan not Kelley.


Rd 2 # 48 Dillon Fournier = bust.

BlMe Kelkey .


Rd 3 #79 Chris Calnan= bust.

A Kelley favourite ..realky blame him!


Round 4 = no picks.


Round 5 # 139 Garrett Ross (Ahler)= bust

#149 Travis Brown = bust

Round 6 #169 Vinny Hinostrozza

= marginal NHLer (4th liner).


Riund 7 # 191 Brandon Whitney =bust.

#199 Matt Tomkins ...marginal AHL
backup goalie


Overall only Teravainen was a goid pick.


Now tge alternative draft:


@ #18 Teravainen

@ #48 Colton Sissons (50) or Chris Tierny (55)

@ #79 Colton Pareyko (86) or Frederick Anderson (87)

@# 139 Alexander Kerfoot (150)

@ # 149 Connor Brown (156)

@ #169 V. Hinostrozza = same

@ #191 and 199 = no alternative left any better than the busts we took (Whitney and Tomkins).


So 1 star NHLer plus 1 marginal 4th liner and 6 total busts for Kelley when we co have had 1 star NHLer plus Hino plus Sissons/or Tierny and Pareyko or Anderson and Kerfoit and Connor Brown ...which is a lot more regular NHL caliber players.


Verdict: Kelley blew this draft...too much opportunity cost left on the table .. we took way too many total busts.

Tomorrow I will review Kelley's work from the 2013 and 2014 drafts..

So far he blew too may opportunities in the 2009,2010;2011 and 2012 drafts.

 

[Drumman44]

So basically Mark just hung out around Detroit scouting the USNDP team and picked primarily from there

 

[Kevin Musto]

So basically Mark just hung out around Detroit scouting the USNDP team and picked primarily from there

The Dominic Basse story makes so much more sense now.

Mark Kelley said that he had to drive through a snow storm to see him play only to find out that he wasn't starting. So Kelley had to come back for the next game.

That's probably more effort than Kelley has ever put into scouting, so he drafted Basse based on that alone

 

[hawksfan50]

Change of plans...going to review the next 2 drafts (2013 and 2014 drafts) now. instead of tomorrow.

So Kelley's 2013 draft:

Rd 1 #30 Ryan Hartnan

Rd 2 Carl Dahlstrom

(65 NHL GP/ 49 for Chicago) +160 AHL GP for Rockford abd 52 AHL GP for other AHL teans...currently with
Toronto Marlies..

Rd 3 #74 John Hayden
...cup of coffee with Hawks ...in the show. Some AHL games on tge farm.
No longer in Hawks system.


Rd 4 #111 Robin Norrell .. a few seasons in AHL in Rockford.. no longer in Hawks system.

#121 Tyler Motte = 4th liner NHLer
now with Vancouver.

Rd 5 #134 Luke Johnson ...a few seasons in Rockford and cup if coffee with Hawks ...no longer in system.

Rd 6 #181 Anthony Louis ...a few seasons in Eockford ...no longer in Hawks system.

Rd 7 #211 Robin Press ...again a bit in Rockford...never made the Hawks...no longer in Hawks system.

Only 2 steady longtine NHlers...RYAN Hartman ...who Stan traded away so cannot blame Kelkey for that + Motte who is a marginal 4th line NHLer .

Again slim pickings compared to what Keljeybleftvon the table.

What we coukd have drafted instead:


@ #30 Tristan Jarry (44)
Now starting goalie for Pittsburgh
.922 save%...I remember wanting us
to draft him as I saw starting potential
But maybe Stan had a policy to not
use first rounders on goalies so even if
Kelley had thought Jerry was BPA,maybe
Stan vetoed it in favour of a C even though Hartman's ceiling looked more like a 3C
OR 4C...YOU SHOUKD NIT BE DRAFTING BOTTOM 6 FORWARDS INSTEADBOF POTENTIAL STARTING GOALIES ..and if
Kelley did not realize Jarry could be a top
goalie...shame on him!


@ #51...Brett Pesce (66) or Tyler Bertuzzi (58)

Dahlstron an NHL bust compared to what we could have taken instead with this pick.


@ #74 how would you have liked either

Pavel Buchnevich (75) or
Jake Guenther (77) or
Anthony Duckair (80) or
Carter Verhaeghe (82)

Instead of John Hayden?

Kelkey blew it badly.


From Rd 4 on starting with pick #111 only Tyler Motte at #21 is an NHLer today ...so that is 1/5 picks we had that made it to a regularcspitvi the Show.


We could have made itv3/5 from the 4th round on had we picked Dominika Kubalik (191) either at #111 or #134...and then took
Mckenzie Weeger (209) at #181...



If only Keljey and his scouts had been more astute.


Maybe not make correctvassessmentsceverytine(easy in hnd dsight) but if heveven got just SONE of the alternatives we left on the table,Kelley's hit/miss record would be a lte better.

Verdict.. again he blew too many outstanding opportunities to settle for mediocrity...and even the best of our picks we traded away anyway!

Next post on thec2014 draft.

 

[Northernhawk]

Yeah, but only horrendously...

Lol my bad
I blame the Canadian metric system

my pint was every team starts with seven picks in the draft, Chicago came away with four NHL regulars from the 2010 draft…Hayes who refused to sign in Chicago in the 1st is a legit NHL star, Holl and Johns in the 2nd have had varying degrees of success AGAIN with other teams and Nordstrom ended up with a decent NHL career, a Cup, so having four successes is very decent draft

 

[hawksfan50]

Kelley's 2014 Draft :

Rd 1 #20 Nick Schmaltz

Rd 2 = no picks


Rd 3 #83 Matt Iacopelli = bust ...no longervin system.
#88 Beau Starrett= bust ...no longer in system.

Rd 4 #98 Frederic Olofson =bust...no longer
in system.

Rd. 5 #141 Luc Snuggerud = bust ...no longer in system.

#148 Andreas Soderberg= bust..no longer in system.

Rd 6 #178...Dylan Sikura
..cup of coffee with Hawks...marginal NHLer if at all ...no longer in Hawks system... amountscto a bust for Chicago

#179 Ivan Nakimov =bust ...no longer in Hawks system.

Rd 7 #208 Jack Ramsey = bust...no longerbin Hawks system.


So instead here is what Hawks coukd have had if Kelley was more astute:


@ #20 David Pasternak( 25) or
Brayden Point (79)
Kelley coukd notcsee big star potential ...getting either instead of Schmaltzwoukd have made this draft special with just this pick alone...

Again hevis judged by what was missed rayhervthan the ok but not sensational success of what he took in round 1.

We can debate tge Schmaltz for Strome trade on its own merits but that is a Stan thing notca Kelkey thing.

@ #83 and #88 take Ville Husso (94) or
Igor Shelterkin (118) as a goalie pick plus Devon Toews(108) as a Dman...

@98 take Viktor Arvidsson (112) or Michael Bunting( (117) .

Any of these alternatives better than busts we took with these 3 picks.

@ #141 #148 #178 #179 #208 = 4 bustscand 1 marginal (Sikura) just pick Viktor Oloffson(181) = now LW with Buffalo and pick ondrej Kase (205) ...both NHLers not complete busts.

Again Kelkeybindicted forvtoonany busts and for what he left on the table.

Vetdict; he blew the 2014 draft just as every draft 2009 thru 2014 tat I looked at so far.

Tomorrow I looked 2015 and 2915 drafts and maybe 2016 and if I have time.

So far Kelley not cutting it at all especially on opportunity costs missed with what coukd have been had he had real scouting acumen.