Mark Arcobello vs Sam Gagner 2014/15 Season

[harpoon]

Forgot to add that if we are talking about guys who have utterly and completely failed to live up to their draft slot and their "supposed abilities", one name is right near the top of that list. New Oiler savior Benoit Pouliot.

Fourth overall in 2005, one full post draft season in junior, followed by 113 AHL games, over which he put up a paltry sixty points. Bounced around the league like a disease nobody wants, and demoted to the AHL for several stints by two of his last three teams, Pouliot has managed to carve out a very impressive 0.43 PPG over the parts of the seven seasons he's managed to stay in the league.

Sounds like a real gem to me. Talk about "undewhelming", yet here are the ever optimistic Oil fans ready to greet him as a savior ..... because he has a good corsi or fenwick, or whatever other nonsense we are using these days to make excuses for players who can't pout the puck in the net.

 

[Aerchon]

Forgot to add that if we are talking about guys who have utterly and completely failed to live up to their draft slot and their "supposed abilities", one name is right near the top of that list. New Oiler savior Benoit Pouliot.

Fourth overall in 2005, one full post draft season in junior, followed by 113 AHL games, over which he put up a paltry sixty points. Bounced around the league like a disease nobody wants, and demoted to the AHL for several stints by two of his last three teams, Pouliot has managed to carve out a very impressive 0.43 PPG over the parts of the seven seasons he's managed to stay in the league.

Sounds like a real gem to me. Talk about "undewhelming", yet here are the ever optimistic Oil fans ready to greet him as a savior ..... because he has a good corsi or fenwick, or whatever other nonsense we are using these days to make excuses for players who can't pout the puck in the net.

That's quite the rant.

Good to see some random hate thrown into a thread. What did Pouliot do to you anyways?

I don't have "the book" on Benoit but I have seen him good sporadically here and there, especially in the playoffs.

From other fans bases and the bit I have seen, consistency is his biggest weakness. But one thing I've heard as well is that he can dominate a game almost himself as well. Combine that with accounts that he has improved over the course of his career as well and I think, while overpriced perhaps, we finally have a bottom 6 player that can take some pressure off of our top 6 group from time to time. A much needed aspect to the Oilers that we have not had in a long time.

I am not expecting him to dominate 40+ games a year by himself and I hope no one else is either. But if he can even be a major factor in a dozen games while not being a liability in the rest... Those could, should, hopefully will be a few more much needed wins.

 

[Replacement*]

Forgot to add that if we are talking about guys who have utterly and completely failed to live up to their draft slot and their "supposed abilities", one name is right near the top of that list. New Oiler savior Benoit Pouliot.

Fourth overall in 2005, one full post draft season in junior, followed by 113 AHL games, over which he put up a paltry sixty points. Bounced around the league like a disease nobody wants, and demoted to the AHL for several stints by two of his last three teams, Pouliot has managed to carve out a very impressive 0.43 PPG over the parts of the seven seasons he's managed to stay in the league.

Sounds like a real gem to me. Talk about "undewhelming", yet here are the ever optimistic Oil fans ready to greet him as a savior ..... because he has a good corsi or fenwick, or whatever other nonsense we are using these days to make excuses for players who can't pout the puck in the net.

Its ironic that wihile Pouliots career perfectly demonstrates the type of player that this fanbase long ago would have ridden out of town on the rails that he is being perceived as a helpful addition. While several posters here figured in the offseason that the mere jettisoning of Gagner was addition by subtraction.

This fanbase would have absolutely HATED Pouliot had they witnessed him as an Oiler any of his initial half dozen seasons.

Yet very few mentions of inconsistency regarding this player...

I guess if you've been close to bust multiple times than any improvement is noted instead of that you've been underwhelming your whole career.

I guess Gagners mistake was being a very good rookie and hitting the NHL running. For shame that he did that instead of falling flat on his face for years like Pouliot.

 

[Mr Positive]

Yeah, right.

To this day there are only a few forwards in Gagner's draft year that you can say are producing better than Gagner. Before looking at this numbers please keep in mind that Gagner played on the worst team in hockey for his entire career. Not just worst by a little bit, so bad that it nearly set records for futility dating back to the seventies. And remember also the gawd awful rosters this team as run out ... rosters where goofs like Horcoff are first liners.

Logan Couture - 0.74 PPG over four NHL seasons.

Went on to play 110 more games in junior after being drafted, and fifty games in the AHL before the Sharks even bothered dressing him for a game. Since hitting the NHL he has pretty much ripped the league. This might be a point for Oilers management to consider when handling their draft picks ... and a point for hfoil posters to understand before they say "ah, sending him back doesn't do a lick of good". Kid also gets to play on a stacked team with competent coaching and loads of veteran support.

Patrick Kane - 0.96 PPG over seven NHL season

Obviously miles ahead of Gagner or anyone in this draft, yet still hasn't managed a ppg over his career despite playing on a winning/stacked team.

Kyle Turris Phhhht ... O.51 PPG over five NHL season

122 AHL games since being drafted (games in which he only put up 71 points). Cleared the "magic" 50 point threshold only in his last season with the Sens as a 25/26 year old.

James van Riemsdyk - 0.59 PPG over five NHL season.

I guess the argument can be made that he's ahead of Gagner now. Again, this player had a full AHL season plus two more seasons of university hockey after his draft.

Jakub Voracek - 0.65 PPG over six NHL season.

Probably the most comparable to Gagner imo. And he also went back to junior for a full season after his draft.


Sam Gagner - 0.61 PPG over seven NHL season.

No return to junior, no AHL seasoning, no decent vet support, a carousel of coaching incompetence. Yet his PPG total is right there with his peers.


Now tell me again Corpse how Gagner's performance relative to his "draft stock and supposed abilities is so underwhelming". I'll tell you something ... most Oiler fans have even less of a clue than our inept management as to what a decent player looks like. Sammy is going to roll in Phoenix and they'll be tears aplently on this board from fans who always knew Gags was a quality player. And it will be crickets from the dozen or so hard core Gagner haters. You can take that to the bank.


Arcobello will be lucky to last the season. This poll is laughable.

Wanna bet Arco doesn't get thirty five points in this or any of his (highly unlikely) future NHL season?

The big difference between Gagner and those players around or below his PPG is that those players are trending upwards. Gagner is stagnating and last season took a big step backwards. If you want to blame the team for that, there's the chance you are right of course but he seemed awful to me in terms of individual effort. It's been 7 years and with no progress at all.

I don't think the point should just be to trash Gagner. He failed the team, the team failed him, so on. It shouldn't be about blame. It's about what's best for the team and the player. There's too much proof right now that we are a bad fit for each other. For all of Arco's faults at least there is uncertainty, and I would take uncertainty over something that is proven not to function

 

[Hynh]

demoted to the AHL for several stints by two of his last three teams, .

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=4961

The last time he was in the AHL was to rehab a wrist injury before he had even played a game for the Habs.

 

[Aerchon]

Cupofoil.

Every team uses players from within their system to compliment their team. Top 6 or otherwise. I am not sure if you realize how few players put up a 2 ppg clip in the AHL. If he kept that pace up for the full year he would literally be the Sidney Crosby of the AHL... Terrible comparison I know since the AHL does not even remotely = the NHL but you have to take a step back and realize this isn't just random AHL scrub. I don't see how any team could not give that player chance in their top 6 while showing solid faceoff, hitting, defensive reliability/positioning in the NHL as well.

Arco would have to earn his way on to any team or wait for a spot to open. No magic to this situation. Which teams need a #2 center? Any that do I am sure will snatch up Arco from the waiver wire if that happens, which it shouldn't. And he completely out played Gagner in terms of two way play IMO and many others opinion last year. Gagner only got his job back because of his contract. Showed himself incapable as a center, lost his center gig, and then got moved out asap.

"I mean, congrats to Arco for getting an opportunity and I'm certainly rooting for him to do well but you seemed to have a warped reality of what he has accomplished. I see a player who is too good for the AHL but has never proven enough to be considered a legit top 6 NHLer or worthy of being a lead candidate for a top 6 spot going into a training camp. He's extremely fortunate that Gagner got injured last season and that MacT brought in no centers this offseason otherwise, I have a feeling that he would be off to Europe by now."

I partially agree with the first part of this paragraph, he has a lot to prove. But your dreaming if you think 2 ppg AHL players who are 26 and capable of playing the center positions go straight to Europe. Even Omark got more of a chance than that and he is 1/10th the player Arco is.[/B]

"Again. Not an Arco hater. I'd love it if he did really well and became a part of a solution as opposed to another Oiler who is overwhelmed and you bumped this thread at a later date to say that you were right but honestly, this is one of very few teams where he would even have a sniff of a top 6 spot going into camp. Lets see if he makes the most of it."

You seem to be an Arco hater, or have never watched him play, or you don't realize that the AHL is the best league to develop NHL players.

I am cautiously optimistic. I don't expect Arco to light it up. I expect what I seen last year with a bit more offense. And what I seen last year was a player that actually knew how to play the center position. Something Gagner has proven time and time again he is not capable of doing. Perfect situation? Hell no, but a sideways move at worst. The Oilers can use a defensively responsible center with significant offensive upside more so than Gagner's one way play brought to the table.

I want that perfect, huge 2 way center that hopefully Leon will turn into down the road. But all things considered, cap, roster, projections, prospects... Arco "should" get the job done and has considerable potential to pleasantly surprise. Arco isn't a "stop gag" per say but if he doesn't improve upon his performance from last year he can be that at the very least. I fully expect the Oilers to be up tight against the cap all too soon and getting value play/pay from someone like Arco would certainly improve the Oilers long term.

I watched every AHL game during the lockout and can tell you Arco has a much better shot and in general has much better offensive skills than what we seen last year in the NHL. His two way game for a rookie was superb. His NHL debut was derailed by an ineffective Gagner rushing back from a terrible injury to try and save his job. Then further derailed by a rib injury. Lets see what this guy can do without any politics or bloated contracts forcing him to play with the likes of Luke Gazdic on the fourth line getting 5 minutes a night.

Replacement: I haven't gambled in a while. I don't even have an avatar (?) nor want to bother to get one period. If I knew you in real life I would put a friendly wage of 20, 50, maybe even 100 if you gave me odds or some kind of point spread.

I've always said Arco is a better two way player that could potentially be as good as Gagner offensively. I've always said Gagner is very skilled offensively. So a bet that goes off of points (offense only) and plus minus (more team orientated) hardly plays to the strengths of those supporting Arco. Betting that Arco will have a longer career is also extremely biased since Gagner got to jump into the NHL so early due to lack of competition. Even with odds in my favor those kind of bets are still unfair because Gagner most likely get top line offensive zone minutes/PP time.

The pro Gagner camp seems very over confident while the Arco camp seems more unbiased in my in mind.

I think the pro Gagner camp would be less inclined to have a bet over which player gets more defensive zone starts. Or which player gets the better face off percentage. Which player has more takeaways. Which players has less giveaways. Ill give odds the other direction if we decide to start making bets like that. (Watches Gagner supporters run for the hills).

 

[Aerchon]

Just for fun some facts from last year:

Gagner Total Ice time 1,231:14. Twice Arco's ice time plus Gagner had 4 times as much PP time as Arco.

Points per minutes played, Gagner and Arco are actually almost dead even last year. Arco slight edge in assists Gagner slight edge in goals.

Takeaways, Gagner did a bit better than I thought he would but using TOI ratios Arco is better.

Using TOI ratios Arco out hits Gagner by a 4.5ish to 1 margin.

Using TOI ratios Gagner has twice as many giveaways as Arco.

Arco has a few more more blocked shots as well...

Very small sample size I know but one that certainly doesn't bode well for Gagner and explains why Mac T felt he could flush him and potentially use Arco as at least a temporary replacement.

Edit:

Forgot to mention Arco's 51% faceoff success rate versus Gagner's 46.8%.

And I also seriously doubt Gagner's quality of competition was as difficult as Arco's but I don't have anything to back that up on hand.

 

[Replacement*]

The big difference between Gagner and those players around or below his PPG is that those players are trending upwards. Gagner is stagnating and last season took a big step backwards. If you want to blame the team for that, there's the chance you are right of course but he seemed awful to me in terms of individual effort. It's been 7 years and with no progress at all.

I don't think the point should just be to trash Gagner. He failed the team, the team failed him, so on. It shouldn't be about blame. It's about what's best for the team and the player. There's too much proof right now that we are a bad fit for each other. For all of Arco's faults at least there is uncertainty, and I would take uncertainty over something that is proven not to function

I think its this notion that is the most mysterious and thanks for expressing it. Uncertainty is seldom advised in a volatile market when stable producing stocks are at hand.

I use the investment analogy because how many people would get rid of a productive stock to replace it with a very uncertain stock. That's the quickest way to reduce your value in portfolio. Because the junk stock sink to no worth or accrual whatsoever. At least Gagner offers future teams some production. Probably increased production. Arco could be fill for a year and is likely out of the NHL after that having again been caught in a numbers game albeit on the worst team in the league.

Also to say "proven not to function" is a misnomer. If anything Gagner has proved to function, has never been demoted to the AHL and has performed well enough to obtain a 5M buck contract just last year.
But lets flush that for a player that is an unknown at the NHL level and hope for the best..

 

[Replacement*]

Just for fun some facts from last year:

Gagner Total Ice time 1,231:14. Twice Arco's ice time plus Gagner had 4 times as much PP time as Arco.

Points per minutes played, Gagner and Arco are actually almost dead even last year. Arco slight edge in assists Gagner slight edge in goals.

Takeaways, Gagner did a bit better than I thought he would but using TOI ratios Arco is better.

Using TOI ratios Arco out hits Gagner by a 4.5ish to 1 margin.

Using TOI ratios Gagner has twice as many giveaways as Arco.

Arco has a few more more blocked shots as well...

Very small sample size I know but one that certainly doesn't bode well for Gagner and explains why Mac T felt he could flush him and potentially use Arco as at least a temporary replacement.

Because Gagners only ever played one NHL season...

Gagner had a bad year.

If MacT makes this comparison, or any like it, and on the basis of one season decides which way to go he's managing assets and talent poorly. This is the same type of thinking that ironically led the club to conclude it should ditch Stoll. In pro hockey you should never be making decisions on the basis of one year good or bad. Teams that make those kinds of decisions chronically bleed talent. Oh, the Oilers..

Also heres some inconvenient truths. The Defensively responsible Arcobello in his very limited PP time was on ice for 2goals against, ftr only 3 goals for. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for being on a PP. Next the defensively responsible Arcobello allowed 7.3GA/60mins on the PK. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for PK time either. Only Acton was worse.

Arco didn't come across as a defensive specialist in his ES time either. Especially considering most of it was weak minutes.

Its interesting that every Arco supporter is trying to turn Arco into some kind of defensive forward. When did this take place? He's not even noted for having any particular defensive acumen in scouting reports. I've certainly not noted it.

Heres typical scouting reports on Arco;

A diminutive forward with good offensive instincts. Arcobello is a playmaker who excels on the powerplay.
His lack of size is an issue in physical battles.

Assets: Is a good playmaker and can rack up impressive point totals at lower levels. Works very hard whenever he's on the ice, and is constantly trying to improve his game.
Flaws: Is significantly below NHL standards in terms of his size (5-9, 165 pounds) and strength, so he faces a constant uphill battle to prove himself at the highest level.
Career Potential: Depth forward with a little upside.

Only people here trying to pump Arcos tires are reporting him as a defensive forward. Everybody else sees his diminutive size as a major problem that is a barrier to competing at this level. I'm betting the little dog that couldn't runs out of steam again after playing around a dozen games against bigger and stronger NHL WC opponents.

 

[Aerchon]

Because Gagners only ever played one NHL season...

Gagner had a bad year.

If MacT makes this comparison, or any like it, and on the basis of one season decides which way to go he's managing assets and talent poorly. This is the same type of thinking that ironically led the club to conclude it should ditch Stoll. In pro hockey you should never be making decisions on the basis of one year good or bad. Teams that make those kinds of decisions chronically bleed talent. Oh, the Oilers..

At the time I was not a Stoll fan, actually can't say I really ever was much of a fan. Stoll also did have a very uncharacteristically terrible season before being traded. A bit different than Gagner who has always had questions about his 2 way game to some extent. I believe Stoll, much like Cogliano, and maybe even Gagner soon enough, was utilized much better after he left Edmonton.

Since your so pro Gagner I try to give you as little as possible but...

I think it will take a couple of years but in the end Gagner could end up being a very good overall player. If they keep him at center his faceoffs should improve. With a good system/coach he should finally improve his two way game. I do think his offense will suffer a bit for those things but he will most likely still be respectable there.

EDIT: You also have to realize Mac T got Purcell and has Arco to potentially fall back on. Improves our winger depth while "potentially" not sacrificing anything in the center position.

Not sold on Mac T's overall judgement as of yet but in this case I do agree with his gamble. Especially since cap wise I think we have spent as much as we can on wingers and really can't afford to splurge on centers at the moment. Poor tactic now but plays into our prospects pool.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

Gagner is one dimensional tweener, and played for a team that needed anything but more of that. He needs PP time, soft minutes, good linemates, and a good D behind him. He isn't good at any of the things the oilers lack (solid defensive play, winning puck battles, winning faceoffs, etc).

He just doesn't have a clue on how to play hockey properly, for anything but offense. He's infinitely more valuable to a team like Arizona. He'll be one of the top PP options, he'll be on a much more defensively responsible team, and he's insulated at center or he can just play wing. Play easy minutes with a huge zone push with someone like Yandle (who is utilized in a very offensive role) feeding him the puck. All of Gagner's deficiencies won't be as noticeable and damaging when he is surrounded with players that do all of the things he doesn't.

He doesn't solve the center issue we currently have..if he was still on our team we would still be complaining about our center depth, because he isn't any good at center. If he was slotted in at wing over Purcell (whom I don't believe is a vastly superior player), would our lineup really look any better? At least with Purcell we have more balance skill-set wise.

As for Arcobello, I don't believe he's going to be a higher caliber player than Gagner. However, he seems like someone with more balance to his game. From what I've seen, he's better at competing for the puck, he's more responsible and thinks the game better outside of the offensive zone. Didn't seem to be much of a liability on the ice, and really had a knack for moving the puck the right way and making the safe plays. He even seems to be decent at faceoffs, which is pretty important with our make-up. Offensively, Gagner has more overall talent, and Arco seems to be a pretty terrible finisher.

I think pumping Arco over Gagner is crazy based on what they've accomplished so far. I do think Arco + Purcell is decidedly better than Gagner though.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

Since your so pro Gagner I try to give you as little as possible but...

I think it will take a couple of years but in the end Gagner could end up being a very good overall player. If they keep him at center his faceoffs should improve. With a good system/coach he should finally improve his two way game. I do think his offense will suffer a bit for those things but he will most likely still be respectable there.

What has Gagner ever done in his entire 7 year and 500 game career to make you think he will be a very good overall player? Not every player can/will be a two-way force. Some players are just good offensive players with below-average two-way ability. He doesn't have any traits that suggest he will ever be a very good defensive player. Can't think properly, he doesn't skate very well, he's small, and he just doesn't have the "will" to be good at it. You have to be hard on the puck and really want that ****, Gagner only really comes alive when he has the puck on his stick.

It doesn't make him useless. Even in today's game there is still room for one-dimensional players like Gagner. It's all about having the right balance on your team, so that you can put a player like him in a position to maximize his strengths and mask his weaknesses.

 

[Mr Forever]

Sometimes I wonder if Sam Gagner pays a public relations team to come on here and argue that he's actually a good hockey player.

Because there's just no other explanation for some people's aggressive love affair with him.

 

[Replacement*]

Sometimes I wonder if Sam Gagner pays a public relations team to come on here and argue that he's actually a good hockey player.

Because there's just no other explanation for some people's aggressive love affair with him.

Yep, no explanation whatsoever with fans being frustrated at the loss of good players like Gagner, Gilbert, Visnovsky, Souray, Hemsky, Brodziak, Horcoff, Glencross, Stoll, Torres, Greene, who are discarded and always land somewhere else and do well while the Oilers continue to be deplorable and continue to airlift each years rotation of grass is always greener players while ironically actually needing the type of players they've discarded...

There can be no reason whatsoever why fans of this team are exasperated with this clubs continued clueless recognition of what are good, talented or disposable bad, players.

In response I'll hear that the above mentioned players never fit here anyway, and that adding several annual random additions to the squad that will have unknown impact are obviously better choices..

for a desperate expansion club...or running the mickey mouse club

Lets all guess which good players will be gone by next year while known problems persist.

"M I C.....K E Y"......

 

[Mr Forever]

Yep, no explanation whatsoever with fans being frustrated at the loss of good players like Gagner, Gilbert, Visnovsky, Souray, Hemsky, Brodziak, Horcoff, Glencross, Stoll, Torres, Greene, who are discarded and always land somewhere else and do well while the Oilers continue to be deplorable and continue to airlift each years rotation of grass is always greener players while ironically actually needing the type of players they've discarded...

There can be no reason whatsoever why fans of this team are exasperated with this clubs continued clueless recognition of what are good, talented or disposable bad, players.

In response I'll hear that the above mentioned players never fit here anyway, and that adding several annual random additions to the squad that will have unknown impact are obviously better choices..

for a desperate expansion club...or running the mickey mouse club

Lets all guess which good players will be gone by next year while known problems persist.

"M I C.....K E Y"......

Well, talk about a strawman argument.

I'm glad you randomly brought up all of those players in your analysis of Sam Gagner, because they're completely related.

Gagner - we have to give him a chance to actually prove something with Arizona before we put him in this category

Gilbert - he's still ****ing awful

Visnovsky - he didn't want to play here

Souray - agree on this one, letting him go was a load of crap

Hemsky - didn't fit, time to move on, I doubt he would have resigned here

Brodziak - he never showed much as an oilers, really

Horcoff - I don't think him and his contract are missed, but a solid player in his role nonetheless

Glencross - you're right on this one

Stoll, Torres, Greene - Two were moved to grap Lubo, a legit top pairing guy, so that was fair. it's bad in hindsight because Lubo turned into nothing. The Torres deal was bad, but it was a part of the blow it up youth movement and I'm not sure if he fit in the locker room with Gags and Cogs etc.

I'm not sure what any of those guys have to do with Gagner, but I guess you sorta have a point that some of them should still be here, like Glencross, Souray and Torres, otherwise, the rest make sense.

Let's wait for Snowpants to actually do well before we go ahead and refer to him as a player was "discarded and always land somewhere else and do well."

I mean, you could also criticize the Lightning for tossing Pants way for, what was it, a sixth round pick...? That shows what his worth is around the league. Again, the other players, sorta I see your point, a lot of players play their worst hockey here, and their best hockey somewhere else, but until Gags actually proves he can be better as a 24 year old than he was as an 18 year old, lets not weep over moving him.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Forgot to add that if we are talking about guys who have utterly and completely failed to live up to their draft slot and their "supposed abilities", one name is right near the top of that list. New Oiler savior Benoit Pouliot.

Fourth overall in 2005, one full post draft season in junior, followed by 113 AHL games, over which he put up a paltry sixty points. Bounced around the league like a disease nobody wants, and demoted to the AHL for several stints by two of his last three teams, Pouliot has managed to carve out a very impressive 0.43 PPG over the parts of the seven seasons he's managed to stay in the league.

Sounds like a real gem to me. Talk about "undewhelming", yet here are the ever optimistic Oil fans ready to greet him as a savior ..... because he has a good corsi or fenwick, or whatever other nonsense we are using these days to make excuses for players who can't pout the puck in the net.

What the flying hell does Pouliot has to do with Arcobello vs Gagner

You need to take a few steps back away from the team if you get this frustrated. And the season hasn't even started yet

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Sometimes I wonder if Sam Gagner pays a public relations team to come on here and argue that he's actually a good hockey player.

Because there's just no other explanation for some people's aggressive love affair with him.

I liked Gagner and I won't slag him. However since he is no longer an Oiler I wish him the best but also want to see our team flourish.

I dunno why people can't take that view either. But hey, when some people have to play devils advocate every day, gotta keep busy I guess.

 

[Aerchon]

Yep, no explanation whatsoever with fans being frustrated at the loss of good players like Gagner, Gilbert, Visnovsky, Souray, Hemsky, Brodziak, Horcoff, Glencross, Stoll, Torres, Greene, who are discarded and always land somewhere else and do well while the Oilers continue to be deplorable and continue to airlift each years rotation of grass is always greener players while ironically actually needing the type of players they've discarded...

There can be no reason whatsoever why fans of this team are exasperated with this clubs continued clueless recognition of what are good, talented or disposable bad, players.

In response I'll hear that the above mentioned players never fit here anyway, and that adding several annual random additions to the squad that will have unknown impact are obviously better choices..

for a desperate expansion club...or running the mickey mouse club

Lets all guess which good players will be gone by next year while known problems persist.

"M I C.....K E Y"......

A solid argument with the exception of Mr.Tom Gilbert. Although all teams run into this situation to some extent.

Just out of morbid curiosity I've followed him in Minnesota and Florida and he is Every bit as terrible for those teams as he was for Edmonton. Statistically he improved because of Campbell but make no mistake that guy still has holes big enough to drive a bus through in his game.

I was just starting to like Montreal a bit and think they may be a Canadian team I could root for. Adding Gilbert and subtracting Georges is going to hurt them significantly.

Did u add Horcoff or did I just miss him? Horcoff does not belong on that list either. He is slated to be on the fourth line this year... Making 5.5 mill... Gotta give mac t some mad props for that one.

 

[harpoon]

What the flying hell does Pouliot has to do with Arcobello vs Gagner

You need to take a few steps back away from the team if you get this frustrated. And the season hasn't even started yet

Try to follow along Tad.
It was brought up in the context of players who have failed to live up to their draft slot and their supposed abilities.
I directly quoted Corpse when I made the point.
As soon as your name is in blue you can tell me what to post. Until then ... well, you know.

 

[Mr Sakich]

Also heres some inconvenient truths. The Defensively responsible Arcobello in his very limited PP time was on ice for 2goals against, ftr only 3 goals for. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for being on a PP. Next the defensively responsible Arcobello allowed 7.3GA/60mins on the PK. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for PK time either. Only Acton was worse.

Arcobelo played 43.42 of powerplay time last year. The goaltending behind him had a .67 save percentage. You think that has something to do with those goals against?

 

[EXTRAS]

BUMP.

As an outsider, can someone comment on Arcobello's play through Edmonton's first 6 games? What does his role appear to be with the organization to start the season? 2nd line center? 1st or second PP? Is he playing well?

He seems to excel at every level, with yr-to-yr stats always improving significantly. Is it possible he becomes a consistent 50 pt player in the NHL?

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

BUMP.

As an outsider, can someone comment on Arcobello's play through Edmonton's first 6 games? What does his role appear to be with the organization to start the season? 2nd line center? 1st or second PP? Is he playing well?

He seems to excel at every level, with yr-to-yr stats always improving significantly. Is it possible he becomes a consistent 50 pt player in the NHL?

Well he's +1 and 3 pts in 5 GP on a team who is a -10 atm. Not too bad so far.

 

[misfit]

I hadn't looked at the points, though armandh01 posted them and they're pretty solid, but he's looked really good. The guy is a player, and exactly the kind of guy who defies the odds to make something of himself. He never looks out of place whether he's playing center on a scoring or checking line, or playing the wing.

He had a hot start last year and then really tailed off, but even when he wasn't producing, he still looked good by my eye.

 

[nabob]

Well he's +1 and 3 pts in 5 GP on a team who is a -10 atm. Not too bad so far.

Better than -2 and 0 points in 4 GP on a team that is a -5 atm.

 

[GMofOilers]

Hes going to have a better season than Gagner.