Value of: Marcus Foligno

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't get why the Wild would trade him for a 2nd. Foligno is a really good bottom 6 player who fills a specific role on the team that no one else does as well. Big, tough, consistent, reasonably fast, and hits like a mutha. When he is on the ice, you know it. Any good team needs a player or three like this. Also is well liked, and leader who bridges the gap between the penthouse(Suter, Parise) and the outhouse(Greenway, Ek, Soucy).

A 2nd is just something that you use and hope that you get a player in 4 or 5 years that turns out to be....Foligno. I'm all for acquiring draft picks, but at some point you have to ask yourself what you are gaining.

I'm waiting to see what the Brodin deal is, then Jesus Brodin and I are going to make some digital house calls and bring a little pain to those involved.

Because he's almost 29 years old, we're overloaded with LW's, he doesn't factor into any of our plans as soon as 1.5 seasons from now, and has played his way up to probably 2nd round compensation range from what probably was 4th-ish round a year ago.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'd give you Sabres 2nd...easily.

I would accept the Sabres' 2nd... easily.

 

[57special]

Foligno is the sort of guy who will show players like Greenway, Kunin, and other young, grinderish players how to play. He also makes us harder to play against. We need more, not less of those types. I get that we also need some high end, skillsy types that put the puck in the net, but you also need players who will support them, do the dirty work, and if necessary, punish those who are taking advantage of our skill players. We can't afford to have Dumba, Fiala and Zucker out there fighting. Greenway looked kind of silly out there when he tried, if a 6'6", 240 lb. guy can look silly.

I just don't see that a 2nd does much for MN as a team. If Marcus gives signs that he wants to move on next year at the TDL, AND the team is not in contention, then you move him.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Foligno is the sort of guy who will show players like Greenway, Kunin, and other young, grinderish players how to play. He also makes us harder to play against. We need more, not less of those types. I get that we also need some high end, skillsy types that put the puck in the net, but you also need players who will support them, do the dirty work, and if necessary, punish those who are taking advantage of our skill players. We can't afford to have Dumba, Fiala and Zucker out there fighting. Greenway looked kind of silly out there when he tried, if a 6'6", 240 lb. guy can look silly.

I just don't see that a 2nd does much for MN as a team. If Marcus gives signs that he wants to move on next year at the TDL, AND the team is not in contention, then you move him.

He showed them last year and is showing them this year. We don't need him to walk them through all the way to their mid-20's.

So you're saying that if he didn't give any signs of wanting to move on, that you'd try to re-sign him after next year?

 

[rynryn]

what are our plans and who do we have that we're confident is as effective in his role? What's available where we'd need the extra million or so we'd save by grabbing a "get them anywhere" replacement player. There are scenarios, sure, but he's better at his job than the guys we have taking turns developing on the third and fourth line and Greenway, Kunin, and Ek are all better than any of our prospects that are being held back right now. Boldy isn't ready at all and if Kaprizov is playing in the bottom six we're completely done.

 

[rynryn]

I do not think he's untouchable by any stretch. But straight up for a 2nd right now wouldn't help us much at all now or likely in the future UNLESS that 2nd get's added to something for a better deal. and if we're going that route, we could probably get more by adding Foligno to something in a bigger deal now if the cap for both teams works out.

 

[Prior]

I think a late second that would come from a playoff team is not enough.

When you start talking about the Sabres 2nd which would be at the beginning of the 2nd, I think that’s more in line with what it would take to move him in my eyes.

Given what he provides on a nightly basis, honestly, a late first shouldn’t be out of the question. But teams just aren’t going to part with that for a Foligno-type player.

I go back and forth between ‘the you’re not going to get the value back that he really provides to the team’ and the mentality that ‘you need to sell high when the team is not in a great position to make waves’.

I think an early second is the point where I would move him even though he has been a revelation for this team.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think a late second that would come from a playoff team is not enough.

When you start talking about the Sabres 2nd which would be at the beginning of the 2nd, I think that’s more in line with what it would take to move him in my eyes.

Given what he provides on a nightly basis, honestly, a late first shouldn’t be out of the question. But teams just aren’t going to part with that for a Foligno-type player.

I go back and forth between ‘the you’re not going to get the value back that he really provides to the team’ and the mentality that ‘you need to sell high when the team is not in a great position to make waves’.

I think an early second is the point where I would move him even though he has been a revelation for this team.

Never say never. Ryan Reaves got a 1st from somebody.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I do not think he's untouchable by any stretch. But straight up for a 2nd right now wouldn't help us much at all now or likely in the future UNLESS that 2nd get's added to something for a better deal. and if we're going that route, we could probably get more by adding Foligno to something in a bigger deal now if the cap for both teams works out.

We need to lose probably 2 LW's before next year (at least 1). Which two do you choose? Can't be Parise and sure as hell shouldn't be Fiala.

 

[Prior]

Never say never. Ryan Reaves got a 1st from somebody.

I mean I’d take Foligno over Hanzel but I’m guessing teams are learning from these types of moves...

 

[Hockeyfan200]

I mean I’d take Foligno over Hanzel but I’m guessing teams are learning from these types of moves...

Ryan Hartman who is on wild right now got a 1st. Simmonds last year got a 1st

 

[rynryn]

ughhh distracted right now. will reply later but

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Ryan Hartman who is on wild right now got a 1st. Simmonds last year got a 1st

Simmonds was traded for Hartman and a 4th. Not a 1st.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Kaprizov presents problems for sure but problems regardless of Foligno's presence. Is Parise or Fiala going to play third line minutes? Is Kaprizov going to? If we are ****canning the season and going for futures anyone think maybe trading Fiala (as stupid as it assuredly sounds) while he's at his most valuable would have the best chance of gaining us a top six center. Then of course we're counting on Kaprizov to come in and perform at least as effectively as Fiala.
Worried about parise and the frustration that'll set in when he's playing third-fiddle.

We aren't getting the top 6 center that we want for Fiala.

Parise is about to be 36 years old. If he pouts about being a 3rd liner, he can f*** right off.

 

[rynryn]

We aren't getting the top 6 center that we want for Fiala.

Parise is about to be 36 years old. If he pouts about being a 3rd liner, he can **** right off.

I'd agree with you about that f***ing off but he holds a little power with that cap recapture thing. at the very least a sulky Parise is gonna be the catalyst for constant talk of "the room" being fractured and lack of team identity. He could be okay with it, too, though if we're performing poorly the scales for him might tip into the "not worth it" zone.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'd agree with you about that ****ing off but he holds a little power with that cap recapture thing. at the very least a sulky Parise is gonna be the catalyst for constant talk of "the room" being fractured and lack of team identity. He could be okay with it, too, though if we're performing poorly the scales for him might tip into the "not worth it" zone.

It's not like our 3rd line plays only 10 minutes a game. He can play 3rd line at even strength, and still do his thing on the power play. He'll stay in the ~15 minute per game range doing that. Foligno is sitting at 14:27 per game right now, and that's counting plenty of time on the 4th line.

I mean, is he going to hold us hostage as a top 6 player until he's 40 years old? It seems a little far-fetched.

 

[rynryn]

As for Fiala as a trading chip...absolutely the player i'd least like to lose at the moment. But then again this could be the high point in his career with his contract situation and how he' performing right now, to a playoff team that might be more inclined to give up better assets. If we had any aspirations to make the playoffs though no way. Would be nice to have two $7m + wingers in Fiala and Kaprizov if everything shakes out. this Center problem is going to haunt us forever.

 

[rynryn]

It's not like our 3rd line plays only 10 minutes a game. He can play 3rd line at even strength, and still do his thing on the power play. He'll stay in the ~15 minute per game range doing that. Foligno is sitting at 14:27 per game right now, and that's counting plenty of time on the 4th line.

I mean, is he going to hold us hostage as a top 6 player until he's 40 years old? It seems a little far-fetched.

it does seem far fetched and i suspect he'll retire before then. more worried about hastening the decision and suffering the consequences early. He seems even more competitive and focused on how he's performing on the ice than the average NHLr and i'd be surprised if he doesn't expect to perform like a 27 year old Parise every single year whether it's realistic or not.

that's all worst-case and (i hope) it's not in his character to retire as a "screw you" but if it happens it could be a quality of life thing. if he feels frustrated about his efficacy, coupled with the body wearing down, it'll boil down to the "this is the best thing for me and my family" and you can't really fault him for it because it'll be true.

 

[Bazeek]

I doubt Parise thinks about retiring until his real salary drops from $6m to $2m in 2022, and at that point a buyout is an unappealing but valid option.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

As for Fiala as a trading chip...absolutely the player i'd least like to lose at the moment. But then again this could be the high point in his career with his contract situation and how he' performing right now, to a playoff team that might be more inclined to give up better assets. If we had any aspirations to make the playoffs though no way. Would be nice to have two $7m + wingers in Fiala and Kaprizov if everything shakes out. this Center problem is going to haunt us forever.

I am not trading fiala! Sorry bye Zucker! Trading a young player like fiala to a contender is laughable

 

[rynryn]

I am not trading fiala! Sorry bye Zucker! Trading a young player like fiala to a contender is laughable

i doubt BG would either. just thinking through our Winger situation though with kaprizov ready. Hope Khovanov is ready for NHL at the end of juniors because i thought i saw he said he'll play in russia if he doesn't make the NHL right away. not the idea attitude though there's no harm in developing in russia unless it's a contract that eats up a lot of time he could be centering in our top six.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

it does seem far fetched and i suspect he'll retire before then. more worried about hastening the decision and suffering the consequences early. He seems even more competitive and focused on how he's performing on the ice than the average NHLr and i'd be surprised if he doesn't expect to perform like a 27 year old Parise every single year whether it's realistic or not.

that's all worst-case and (i hope) it's not in his character to retire as a "screw you" but if it happens it could be a quality of life thing. if he feels frustrated about his efficacy, coupled with the body wearing down, it'll boil down to the "this is the best thing for me and my family" and you can't really fault him for it because it'll be true.

If it's body thing then he'll go LTIR and still get paid.

The guy isn't going to retire out of spite just because he's playing 14:30 minutes per game instead of 16:30 minutes per game. If he got press boxed? Maybe.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

i doubt BG would either. just thinking through our Winger situation though with kaprizov ready. Hope Khovanov is ready for NHL at the end of juniors because i thought i saw he said he'll play in russia if he doesn't make the NHL right away. not the idea attitude though there's no harm in developing in russia unless it's a contract that eats up a lot of time he could be centering in our top six.

He didn't say that. His former coach said it, but I don't think he can. He has signed his contract with us already. Same reason that Kaprizov can't just up and leave Russia and come here until his contract is over.

 

[rynryn]

He didn't say that. His former coach said it, but I don't think he can. He has signed his contract with us already. Same reason that Kaprizov can't just up and leave Russia and come here until his contract is over.

NHL and KHL have movement rules again that prohibit this? They used to but i though Kap could come over if he wanted to burn bridges over there and buy out his own contract, not that there were rules that would keep him from playing in one league if he moved out of another before his term was up.

 

[rynryn]

If it's body thing then he'll go LTIR and still get paid.

The guy isn't going to retire out of spite just because he's playing 14:30 minutes per game instead of 16:30 minutes per game. If he got press boxed? Maybe.

body thing...i don't mean a sudden equipment allergy or anything that would technically prevent him from skating, but the accumulation of injuries and the fear that acquiring more will lead to long term suffering where the reward of playing a reduced role wasn't worth it. like "i don't feel like i'm contributing like i should, and my back is starting to feel like i'm a dozen chrosschecks from another surgery". rather than hit that point and go out a rich crippled guy he might decide to leave with what health he has if he's not getting as much out of playing as he used to.