March 2nd TDL Part 2

Navin R Slavin

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Jan 1, 2011
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That's not an awful idea, I'm sure they won't adopt it but it would fix some things. Very few will tank a whole season, this way we actually see who's bad.

Serious question:

Why shouldn't there be a weighted playoff for draft picks?

1. More games = more revenue.
2. More meaningful games = more fan excitement.
3. Teams that miss the playoffs still have reason to play their best hockey at the end of the year, so they're peaking.
4. Weighting gives the bad teams a better seed, but no guarantee.

I really am honestly surprised that this idea isn't more popular. Seems like a win for everybody.
 

Anton Dubinchuk

aho
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Jul 18, 2010
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Serious question:

Why shouldn't there be a weighted playoff for draft picks?

1. More games = more revenue.
2. More meaningful games = more fan excitement.
3. Teams that miss the playoffs still have reason to play their best hockey at the end of the year, so they're peaking.
4. Weighting gives the bad teams a better seed, but no guarantee.

I really am honestly surprised that this idea isn't more popular. Seems like a win for everybody.

Don't player not get paid for the playoffs? The reasons that a player will pay basically for free in the playoffs are pretty obvious, everyone wants the Cup. I doubt you'd get rosters full of players to commit to MORE games after the season in a tournament to play for a draft pick. A player might risk injury and play for free for the Cup, but no one's going to do it for a draft pick. That's just one reason right there. I like the idea, and I'd totally watch, but I'd imagine there are too many obstacles to actually making it a thing.
 

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
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Dec 6, 2011
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Serious question:

Why shouldn't there be a weighted playoff for draft picks?

1. More games = more revenue.
2. More meaningful games = more fan excitement.
3. Teams that miss the playoffs still have reason to play their best hockey at the end of the year, so they're peaking.
4. Weighting gives the bad teams a better seed, but no guarantee.

I really am honestly surprised that this idea isn't more popular. Seems like a win for everybody.

Plenty of players on those teams have no incentive to give a rip if they are free agents or don't know for sure they will be on the team the next year or by the time the prospect they pick comes up. Also, players don't get paid during the playoffs. So while the revenue would trickle down to the players in the form of the revenue split between the players and owners, can't imagine players wanting to not get paid when they don't have the incentive of the Stanley Cup or the playoffs in general.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Sep 6, 2006
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Chip Alexander @ice_chip · 4m 4 minutes ago
Francis didn't indicate the Canes would make major changes in the offseason but said the defensive corps likely would be addressed.

I thought this was the year to give this group 1 more chance?
 

Navin R Slavin

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The point of the draft is to ensure that bad teams have access to good players.

And yet, we have a situation where we're scrambling the lottery anyway, because everyone is racing to the bottom.

The bottom three teams could each still be guaranteed a pick in the top six, which is likely where we are going to end up anyway.

Paying players could be done from the gate, right? Players from the winning team get a big chunk of the gate, players from the losing team get a smaller chunk. Players incentive to win could be straight cash, homey.

Marketed properly, I've got to think a tourney like this, done over two weekends at three different venues -- hell, make 'em Canadian -- would make crazy bank.
 

Chan790

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I really am honestly surprised that this idea isn't more popular. Seems like a win for everybody.

I'd be in favor of it but it would require two more teams or a change to how the Stanley Cup playoffs are done...there's currently 30 teams and 16 make the playoffs.

There's really no good way to do a tournament with 14 teams...you'd need wait for a two-team expansion so you had 16 teams for a loser playoff. Alternately, they could have a 8th/9th play-in for the playoffs in both conferences...that would drop the number of teams for a loser playoff to 12. It's easier to have 12-team tournament.
 

GoldiFox

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
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Wisniewski + 3rd for 2nd + Karlsson + Bourque

Not a huge price to pay but the Canes probably couldn't have matched if Karlsson was the main piece.
 

garnetpalmetto

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Jul 12, 2004
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And yet, we have a situation where we're scrambling the lottery anyway, because everyone is racing to the bottom.

The bottom three teams could each still be guaranteed a pick in the top six, which is likely where we are going to end up anyway.

Paying players could be done from the gate, right? Players from the winning team get a big chunk of the gate, players from the losing team get a smaller chunk. Players incentive to win could be straight cash, homey.

Marketed properly, I've got to think a tourney like this, done over two weekends at three different venues -- hell, make 'em Canadian -- would make crazy bank.

Yet we're not. I think this whole thing is fairly overwrought and is the current bête noire of the hockey media and fans of teams like, oh, Toronto. They see teams like Edmonton get multiple first overall picks and instantly start kicking and screaming about it when the Oilers don't become overnight Stanley Cup champions. That expectation is, IMO, asinine. One, I wouldn't call any of the first overall picks the Oilers have gotten in this last stretch generational talents capable of taking a team on his back and, second, if your management resembles a cross between the Keystone Cops and a dumpster fire, of course you're going to piss away talent.

All the fiddling with the system is, to me, fixing something that's not really broken. It seems that some of the loudest voices won't be happy until the draft system in the NHL is abolished entirely. Do we really need to return to those bad old days? Leave it as is, have a lottery if it's really that necessary to discourage "tanking" (which I feel to be an imagined problem) but the NFL gets by just fine with a system where the worst team each year gets the first overall pick.
 

Navin R Slavin

Fifth line center
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Yet we're not.

Oh, we're not? Okay. Maybe we're not. But Toronto and Buffalo and Arizona and Edmonton sure are.

I think this whole thing is fairly overwrought and is the current bête noire of the hockey media and fans of teams like, oh, Toronto. They see teams like Edmonton get multiple first overall picks and instantly start kicking and screaming about it when the Oilers don't become overnight Stanley Cup champions. That expectation is, IMO, asinine. One, I wouldn't call any of the first overall picks the Oilers have gotten in this last stretch generational talents capable of taking a team on his back and, second, if your management resembles a cross between the Keystone Cops and a dumpster fire, of course you're going to piss away talent.

Well, one of the reasons I'd like to see it is because I'd like to know that the season isn't over in April. As a fan, I'd like to see a few more games. I think a Draft Tournament would be a fun way to solve two problems.

All the fiddling with the system is, to me, fixing something that's not really broken. It seems that some of the loudest voices won't be happy until the draft system in the NHL is abolished entirely. Do we really need to return to those bad old days?

Gosh, that's a really nice straw man you've got there. It really could use a hat, though.

Leave it as is, have a lottery if it's really that necessary to discourage "tanking" (which I feel to be an imagined problem) but the NFL gets by just fine with a system where the worst team each year gets the first overall pick.

A lottery is boring. Playoffs are exciting.
 

cptjeff

Reprehensible User
Sep 18, 2008
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Washington, DC.
Serious question:

Why shouldn't there be a weighted playoff for draft picks?

1. More games = more revenue.
2. More meaningful games = more fan excitement.
3. Teams that miss the playoffs still have reason to play their best hockey at the end of the year, so they're peaking.
4. Weighting gives the bad teams a better seed, but no guarantee.

I really am honestly surprised that this idea isn't more popular. Seems like a win for everybody.

Because the teams that need the best players the most wouldn't be able to get them. While you want to avoid tanking, remember that the whole purpose of the draft is to help legitimately bad teams get better. The reason it's not a more popular proposal is because it's a moronic idea with more flaws than you can even begin to describe.
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
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Durham, NC
Oh, we're not? Okay. Maybe we're not. But Toronto and Buffalo and Arizona and Edmonton sure are.



Well, one of the reasons I'd like to see it is because I'd like to know that the season isn't over in April. As a fan, I'd like to see a few more games. I think a Draft Tournament would be a fun way to solve two problems.



Gosh, that's a really nice straw man you've got there. It really could use a hat, though.



A lottery is boring. Playoffs are exciting.

Likewise, those are some mighty fine rose colored glasses you're wearing. Except it's not a strawman. There's a concerted effort by sports agents and media mouthpieces to do away with entry drafts across all sports and go back to the system where entry-level players were considered UFAs free to sign with whomever they please.
 

Navin R Slavin

Fifth line center
Jan 1, 2011
16,250
63,922
Durrm NC
Because the teams that need the best players the most wouldn't be able to get them. While you want to avoid tanking, remember that the whole purpose of the draft is to help legitimately bad teams get better. The reason it's not a more popular proposal is because it's a moronic idea with more flaws than you can even begin to describe.

Leaving aside the ad hominem attack, let's enumerate some of these flaws.

1. A draft playoff would not help bad teams get better.

It's trivially easy to set up a system where the worst team gets a bye to the final, guaranteeing them a 2nd pick at worst. Exactly like the current lottery.

It's also trivially easy to give the second-worst team a bye to the semi-final, and the third-and-fourth worst teams a bye to the quarterfinals, thus guaranteeing them worst picks of 4th, 7th and 8th, respectively. (Or even 3rd, 5th and 6th.)

Teams that are better than 4th worst are not much different from one another, but suddenly have chances to work their way to better picks by actually winning games.

Let's move on to the next:

2. Players would have no incentive to play in such a game.

What incentive is there for players to play out the last 30 games of a season when it's evident that they're not playing for the Cup?

But ok. Let's throw in some sugar. 25 players on a roster. At $50 average ticket price for 15,000 fans, that's $750k. Take a third of that for the venue. The remaining $500k goes to the winner of each game, so $20k for each player for each win. That's more than the losers of a first round series take home in bonus money, BTW. More than 15,000 fans? More money on the table.

Any other evident flaws, cptjeff? Consider it an intellectual exercise -- the education of a moron.
 

Navin R Slavin

Fifth line center
Jan 1, 2011
16,250
63,922
Durrm NC
Likewise, those are some mighty fine rose colored glasses you're wearing. Except it's not a strawman. There's a concerted effort by sports agents and media mouthpieces to do away with entry drafts across all sports and go back to the system where entry-level players were considered UFAs free to sign with whomever they please.

Oh, okay. When you think that's anywhere close to happening, you let me know.
 

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