Player Discussion Marc Staal

[AdamBanks99]

Why can't they?

Staal is most valuable to this team when he isn't playing.

better to buy him out than have that $5.7 in the press box though.

 

[Sayba]

pining for the days Staal would own Ovie.

He really did at one point, he was a top defensive defenseman no question but now he isn't good at anything, quite the fall. To me he seems to lack strength and stamina. I know his injuries are a factor but have to wonder if he didn't put in maximum effort in his training.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

better to buy him out than have that $5.7 in the press box though.

You won't get a disagreement from me on that.

 

[HFBS]

Marc Staal. The only stiff left standing.

 

[eco's bones]

How could Staal end up on the top pair unless McDonagh is dead or something?

AV isn't going to permanently pair McDonagh and Staal, two righty's, not after they just went out and completely revamped their right side.

I feel like this is peoples frustration showing and they're making wild assertions. Staal can't play the right side for ****. McDonagh has only done small stints on the right and is far more valuable on the left.

I'm not going to say that they'll never ever see the ice together (could see them PKing or something) but the Rangers top pairing is not going to be McDonagh-Staal for any vaguely notable period of time and I will just outright ban myself from this board and delete my account if it happens.

It's questionable that Staal has enough vision in the one eye that he wouldn't be a sitting duck if played on the right side. I certainly wouldn't play McDonagh on the right-- and not with two right handed puck movers like Shattenkirk and DeAngelo.

FWIW Staal is another guy training at the Prentiss camp.....so he apparently is intent on giving it his best shot. That said I see him in the way and IMO Holden (who is not great) is easily the better player of the two and if given my druthers I'd rather have Holden (a lefty) as the 3rd LD--rather than play him on his off side.

One way or another even if Staal bounced back his cap hit for what he can do is too much even as a third pairing guy and IMO McDonagh and Skjei are so far ahead of him as two way players it's ridiculous. We're better off just buying him out.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I agree that a buyout is not good. Especially the long term cap problems combined with G's buyout. Id rather loose some picks trying to move him (not 1st rounders).

Lose some prospects. I'd hate to do it, but we can afford to tack two of Pionk, Graves, Day, Zborovskiy onto Staal or instead of two of those prospects, DeAngelo.

 

[Boruto]

When is the exact period of the 2nd buyout period? I know it has something to do with the arbitration for Zibanejad/Fast*.

edit: As explained in Section 13(c)ii of the Standard Player Contract (SPC) [Exhibit 1 of the CBA], clubs are permitted to perform a buyout outside the regular period during the 48 hour period beginning on the third day after the final of a) settlement of the Club's final arbitration case. b) receipt of the Club's last arbitration award

So it could drop 3 days after we sign Zib?

 

[eco's bones]

Lose some prospects. I'd hate to do it, but we can afford to tack two of Pionk, Graves, Day, Zborovskiy onto Staal or instead of two of those prospects, DeAngelo.

What if the team that would take Staal off our hands didn't want DeAngelo or the other prospects you mention? What if the price to take Staal's remaining 4 years worth of $22.8 mil cap hit (which is a lot of cap hit to take) was Pavel Buchnevich?

IMO it's the wrong way to go. And the above list that includes Pionk--the Rangers start looking not so attractive for undrafted college free agents when you start dealing the same before they even take a shift for your organization.

 

[charliemurphy]

When is the exact period of the 2nd buyout period? I know it has something to do with the arbitration for Zibanejad/Fast*.

edit: As explained in Section 13(c)ii of the Standard Player Contract (SPC) [Exhibit 1 of the CBA], clubs are permitted to perform a buyout outside the regular period during the 48 hour period beginning on the third day after the final of a) settlement of the Club's final arbitration case. b) receipt of the Club's last arbitration award

So it could drop 3 days after we sign Zib?

Window opens on the third day after the team's last arbitration is concluded (or settled, if it doesn't make it to a hearing) and is open for 48 hours. There are also restrictions on which players can be bought out.
1. The player has to have been on the reserve list as of the last trade deadline (so no buying out that off-season signing you regret until the next trade deadline).
2. There is a minimum cap value for a contract to be eligible for this - $2.75m AAV initially, but the value goes up based on the average league salary each year. Any player who meets those two restrictions can be bought out.
3. Buyouts can only be done three times by each team. Not three times per year - three times over the entire length of the current CBA.

Staal would be the 3rd behind Girardi and Richards... if it happens.

 

[Mikos87]

I think the buyout isn't the Rangers best interest.

Cripples the cap the next two years.

If they can't move him, they'll play him to allow him to redeem himself.

Let's see how it goes.

I'm not opposed to a left side of

McD
Skjei
Staal

But the guy needs to show up every night. If he doesn't, then the onus is on the coaching staff to hold players accountable.

This years team is deeper on defense, they can do that.

I'm still seeing teams with holes on defense that Holden can fill. He's far more tradeable.

Get a guy that's had an AHL breakout as a center that can skate for Holden, and make that deal. Retain if you must on Holden.

For a cap strapped team, Holden at 50% should get you a real good utility bottom sixer.

 

[TheTakedown]

Window opens on the third day after the team's last arbitration is concluded (or settled, if it doesn't make it to a hearing) and is open for 48 hours. There are also restrictions on which players can be bought out.
1. The player has to have been on the reserve list as of the last trade deadline (so no buying out that off-season signing you regret until the next trade deadline).
2. There is a minimum cap value for a contract to be eligible for this - $2.75m AAV initially, but the value goes up based on the average league salary each year. Any player who meets those two restrictions can be bought out.
3. Buyouts can only be done three times by each team. Not three times per year - three times over the entire length of the current CBA.

Staal would be the 3rd behind Girardi and Richards... if it happens.

Girardi was a compliance buyout. Richards was an amnesty buyout. Neither count against the 2nd buyout window

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Any ideas on how Ruff is going to influence this new D? Parings? minutes? Zone? Man?

This is not someone who is just there to open doors on the bench.

Thoughts?

 

[nyr2k2]

I'd much rather keep Staal on the team than use the buy out.

If he's used properly he can be okay. Drastically overpaid but okay.

 

[Nickmo82]

I'd much rather keep Staal on the team than use the buy out.

If he's used properly he can be okay. Drastically overpaid but okay.

IMO the worst thing about Staal is him taking a spot in the lineup another guy could have. He's done as a player of any worth. He isn't helping the team in any way at all. As much as it sucks, I'd be happier seeing him in the press box than on the ice, even if it's 5.7m doing nothing.

 

[Boruto]

IMO the worst thing about Staal is him taking a spot in the lineup another guy could have. He's done as a player of any worth. He isn't helping the team in any way at all. As much as it sucks, I'd be happier seeing him in the press box than on the ice, even if it's 5.7m doing nothing.

^^ This is the final nail in the coffin for any "Staal is fine as a third pairing guy even if he's making $5.7M" argument. With his ice time, Bereglazov or Graves can develop into a top 4 defenseman that can help the team during any cap crunch with a $2.2M bridge deal or become the type of young top 4 defenseman that Colorado is currently coveting. The 100 game sample size last year of Staal combined with the past 2 seasons, the multiple major injuries, and his age, anything short of buying him out if we can't find an appealing deal to move his entire cap would be lingering on the sentiments of his legacy as a New York Ranger.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What if the team that would take Staal off our hands didn't want DeAngelo or the other prospects you mention? What if the price to take Staal's remaining 4 years worth of $22.8 mil cap hit (which is a lot of cap hit to take) was Pavel Buchnevich?

IMO it's the wrong way to go. And the above list that includes Pionk--the Rangers start looking not so attractive for undrafted college free agents when you start dealing the same before they even take a shift for your organization.

This team is win now, given how Gorton has acted the last week or so, so I don't think giving up big pieces from the NHL team is really such a good idea, unless there actually is no strategy, and you just make rash decisions whenever you feel like it.

With McDonagh, Skjei, Smith and Shattenkirk, you have what figures to be the top 4. Obviously we aren't talking about 4 Bobby Orr's, and those prospects could replace at least 1 or 2 of those players if they reach their potential, but if Gorton has decided that his top 4 is that, we can afford to lose some of our defensive depth that will likely start in the minors or would be like a 6th D in the NHL.

Lets just say for arguments sake they wanted Pionk and Graves, Staal, Pionk and Graves for like a 7th round pick. That would leave us with McD, Shattenkirk, Skjei, Smith, Bereglazov, DeAngelo and Holden as the 7 defensemen in the NHL. Holden could start in the press box, Kampfer could be first call up from Hartford, and then maybe if Zborovskiy or Day develop well this season, they are options towards the end of the 2017-18 season or instead the 2018-19 season.

I think we are in a corner due to Staal and some other decisions Gorton has made, I obviously don't want to trade any of those players, but if the team has made up its mind in a sense with the top 4 like it seems this GM has, we probably could allocate those assets in an effective way by using them to get rid of Staal.

 

[eco's bones]

This team is win now, given how Gorton has acted the last week or so, so I don't think giving up big pieces from the NHL team is really such a good idea, unless there actually is no strategy, and you just make rash decisions whenever you feel like it.

With McDonagh, Skjei, Smith and Shattenkirk, you have what figures to be the top 4. Obviously we aren't talking about 4 Bobby Orr's, and those prospects could replace at least 1 or 2 of those players if they reach their potential, but if Gorton has decided that his top 4 is that, we can afford to lose some of our defensive depth that will likely start in the minors or would be like a 6th D in the NHL.

Lets just say for arguments sake they wanted Pionk and Graves, Staal, Pionk and Graves for like a 7th round pick. That would leave us with McD, Shattenkirk, Skjei, Smith, Bereglazov, DeAngelo and Holden as the 7 defensemen in the NHL. Holden could start in the press box, Kampfer could be first call up from Hartford, and then maybe if Zborovskiy or Day develop well this season, they are options towards the end of the 2017-18 season or instead the 2018-19 season.

Let's say for arguments sake the team that takes Staal off of our hands doesn't want a defenseman--they want a forward comparable to say DeAngelo--someone young with a big future just like DeAngelo and that forward's initials turns out to be P.B.--not J.V. (because they don't think he's good enough) and the Rangers won't give them J.T.--what say you then? I'm thinking you'd say no--if only because I don't think you'd be happy trying to figure out your new user's name here. And if we're to take you seriously on all the bias that AV has for JV and against PB who do you think the coaching staff is going to want to keep anyway if given the choice?

And let's say that after getting Buchnevich they do exactly what we were afraid to do--that is buy out Staal--so then they don't have Staal either but they do have Buchnevich. I don't know about you but I say bull **** to that.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Let's say for arguments sake the team that takes Staal off of our hands doesn't want a defenseman--they want a forward comparable to say DeAngelo--someone young with a big future just like DeAngelo and that forward's initials turns out to be P.B.--not J.V. (because they don't think he's good enough) and the Rangers won't give them J.T.--what say you then? I'm thinking you'd say no--if only because I don't think you'd be happy trying to figure out your new user's name here. And if we're to take you seriously on all the bias that AV has for JV and against PB who do you think the coaching staff is going to want to keep anyway if given the choice?

And let's say that after getting Buchnevich they do exactly what we were afraid to do--that is buy out Staal--so then they don't have Staal either but they do have Buchnevich. I don't know about you but I say bull **** to that.

I don't even get what you are trying to do here.

I said no. I wouldn't trade Buchnevich. I think thats pretty clear. I think almost any Ranger fan would say no to giving up Buchnevich along with Staal, and would be much more willing to give up lesser prospects at a position they are currently blocked at the NHL level, although I'm not claiming every fan would agree to that, but I think nearly every fan would be more willing to give up those players than Buchnevich who you are insisting needs to be a main subject in this conversation.

Of course you've presented no actual argument against why what I'm saying is so horrible, even though you were the one who responded to me, not the other way around, yet you want to frame this as I hate those defensemen and just want to let them go for free. Not true, I go to bat for many of them against some people here who aren't fair to them, but I must hate them because of my user name, nice logic there.

 

[17 others]

If we take Staal off the books what are we using the money for? Obviously the need is a 1C, but if Gorts can't/is unwilling to pull off a trade with what we have to offer then we may as well keep his cap hit on the roster and re-evaluate next summer, right?

My understanding is that even once Zibs is signed we'll still have a couple million in space.

 

[Levitate]

I think it'd be a little weird for a team to trade for 3 defensemen.

Guys like Pionk and Graves don't really have much value right now either

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

If we take Staal off the books what are we using the money for? Obviously the need is a 1C, but if Gorts can't/is unwilling to pull off a trade with what we have to offer then we may as well keep his cap hit on the roster and re-evaluate next summer, right?

My understanding is that even once Zibs is signed we'll still have a couple million in space.

depending what he signs for 4 to 5M or so.. could be even more if they do the smart thing and move Holden for a picks or prospect, nhl player, whatever.

 

[Irishguy42]

If we take Staal off the books what are we using the money for? Obviously the need is a 1C, but if Gorts can't/is unwilling to pull off a trade with what we have to offer then we may as well keep his cap hit on the roster and re-evaluate next summer, right?

My understanding is that even once Zibs is signed we'll still have a couple million in space.

Right now, with Klein retired, the Rangers have ~$8.4M in cap space.

Zibanejad will probably come somewhere between $4.75M and $5.5M.

So, a few million and change after he's signed.

 

[NYRFAN218]

If we take Staal off the books what are we using the money for? Obviously the need is a 1C, but if Gorts can't/is unwilling to pull off a trade with what we have to offer then we may as well keep his cap hit on the roster and re-evaluate next summer, right?

My understanding is that even once Zibs is signed we'll still have a couple million in space.

That's pretty much my issue with buying him out. If you shelter him he can be alright in the 3rd pairing role and there's no pressing need for cap space so just ride it out for the year and look to buy him out next year or see if there's potential trade options when the NMC flips to a limited NTC.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

I am ok with #18 being our 6 - if you ignore cap implications that is

 

[Vitto79]

I am ok with #18 being our 6 - if you ignore cap implications that is

That is true plus if he moves it's likely next yr w more options. No trade give and erik is ufa again . May go to same spot ?