Marc Staal

[ReggieDunlop68]

Probably because it's a sports team and this is a sports forum. Throughout history, all GM's have made bad decisions, especially Glen Sather in his NYR tenure. Not everything they do is the correct/right decision.

Yeah well if those same fans were running the organization, this franchise would have folded a long time ago.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Would rather keep Hags over MSL if it came down it. MSL's career is almost over, while Hags still has a long career ahead of him.

Poppycock. MSL is vastly more important to this team's contention in the next few years. We have roughly a 4-year window.

 

[Cassano]

Yeah well if those same fans were running the organization, this franchise would have folded a long time ago.

I think some fans could've done better than Sather in the early part of this millennium TBH.

 

[Raspewtin]

Rapetwin's argument on Girardi is exactly why I roll my eyes when people rely solely on "advanced" stats.

But I don't solely rely on advanced stats.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I think some fans could've done better than Sather in the early part of this millennium TBH.

After Smith's terrible end to his tenure and the mismanagement with Checketts group, Dolan wanted an "all star team" in the capless NHL. I'm not sure what Sather could have done. Aside from the decade with the oilers prior to the dismantling by Pocklington and 2006-today with the Rangers, Sather Sucks

 

[DanielBrassard]

Rapetwin's argument on Girardi is exactly why I roll my eyes when people rely solely on "advanced" stats.

Why, because you don't agree with them that means they aren't working? How come a guy like Ken Hitchcock, one of the best coaches in the NHL, to use this argument, who didn't believe in them at all, now realizes how important they are? He knows more about the game than all of us.

Here's relative scoring chances for for Rangers defenseman since 2011-12, notice there's only 2 guys on here who is below average? Del Zotto and Girardi.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Why, because you don't agree with them? How come a guy like Ken Hitchcock, one of the best coaches in the NHL, to use this argument, who didn't believe in them at all, now realizes how important they are? He knows more about the game than all of us.

Here's relative scoring chances for for Rangers defenseman since 2011-12, notice there's only 2 guys on here who is below average? Del Zotto and Girardi.

That really the best example to use though? Girardi's facing the toughest competition and getting the least offensive zone starts. I'm sure if you put him where Staal or Stralman are in regards to those two variables, you'd see a better scoring chance ratio.

 

[DanielBrassard]

That really the best example to use though? Girardi's facing the toughest competition and getting the least offensive zone starts. I'm sure if you put him where Staal or Stralman are in regards to those two variables, you'd see a better scoring chance ratio.

If the argument is that Girardi is a good top-pair defenseman, then I don't see what the problem is. Playing tough minutes is one thing, but it's what you do with them that matters. Plus that's just scoring chances, he's also not been good at possession and GF% either. Even if you compare him to players in all the NHL who play similar minutes he's still not good.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Girardi is an overpaid 2nd pairing d-man at this point in his career.

He's a great dude in the locker room, and he's a warrior, and it's awesome having dudes like G put on the sweater for almost a decade now. But he's not a top pairing d-man and because of the bad contract trading him will unfortunately be the best course of action in the upcoming years.

 

[charliemurphy]

Do you think we are going to keep just one of those 3 if we give that contract to Staal?
Then how do you all feel about trading Zucc at the deadline? What return would you demand?

I'm okay with signing Staal at that term even with the cap problem because our prospect pool is so much deeper in forwards than in Ds. We would lock our defense for the years to come, and adding Skjei to the last pair with Klein our D will look awesome.

The only way 2 of the 3 in Zucc, Hagelin and MSL come back is if both Zucc and MSL takes a huge cut. And even at that point I don't know if its worth it to sign them long term. Both Buchnevich and Duclair will push for top 2 line minutes out of camp.
The only way Hagelin comes back next season is on an all Swedish 4th line with someone like Lindberg (who believe it or not can do what D. Moore does) and perhaps Fast.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The only way 2 of the 3 in Zucc, Hagelin and MSL come back is if both Zucc and MSL takes a huge cut. And even at that point I don't know if its worth it to sign them long term. Both Buchnevich and Duclair will push for top 2 line minutes out of camp.
The only way Hagelin comes back next season is on an all Swedish 4th line with someone like Lindberg (who believe it or not can do what D. Moore does) and perhaps Fast.

I disagree with literally all of this.

 

[charliemurphy]

I disagree with literally all of this.

Well, thats deep BRB. Very deep.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Girardi is an overpaid 2nd pairing d-man at this point in his career.

He's a great dude in the locker room, and he's a warrior, and it's awesome having dudes like G put on the sweater for almost a decade now. But he's not a top pairing d-man and because of the bad contract trading him will unfortunately be the best course of action in the upcoming years.

I just RME when I see stuff like this.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I just RME when I see stuff like this.

Is RME a new lingo? I get that it's "roll my eyes", but I've never seen RME before.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I couldn't possibly care less about Girardi's offensive vs defensive stats.

 

[NYRangerFan*]

This is getting ridiculous. Every thread has a group of people trying to **** on a certain player because their advanced stats aren't as good as Sekera's or whoever the overrated dman is this year. Can we have a thread with advanced stats about every player so every thread doesn't turn into one? Its very annoying

 

[Raspewtin]

This is getting ridiculous. Every thread has a group of people trying to **** on a certain player because their advanced stats aren't as good as Sekera's or whoever the overrated dman is this year. Can we have a thread with advanced stats about every player so every thread doesn't turn into one? Its very annoying

Yeah. People having discussions is just terrible.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Is RME a new lingo? I get that it's "roll my eyes", but I've never seen RME before.

I didn't think it looked right.Have mercy on me I just spent 4 days in the hospital with vertigo and am still dizzy.

 

[Baby Punisher]

This is getting ridiculous. Every thread has a group of people trying to **** on a certain player because their advanced stats aren't as good as Sekera's or whoever the overrated dman is this year. Can we have a thread with advanced stats about every player so every thread doesn't turn into one? Its very annoying

I don't mind the advanced stats, but they are the not the be end end all to a player. It's just another tool to rate a player on a full scale.

 

[NYRangerFan*]

I don't mind the advanced stats, but they are the not the be end end all to a player. It's just another tool to rate a player on a full scale.

I know but every thread has guys saying "no, he is no good because his advanced stats are this and that". It gets a bit old

 

[haohmaru]

There's a guy in net that did his fair share of that work. And a 2nd pairing that you could argue was the best in the league. And one of the most underrated defensive forwards in the league going against the top centers night in and night out, effectively neutralizing them.

I'm not taking anything away from them at all. The point I'm making is that Girardi was a key part of that defense and those statistics regardless of what his Corsi is.

They're called scoring chances, lol. I can't find SCF/A anywhere but I'm sure it exists somewhere.

What I can find though, is that players take a lot of shots and attempts while Girardi is on the ice. Over time, more shots against means more goals. It's a regression to the mean kind of thing. In the long run, quality of shot doesn't matter much, as if you're going keep playing with fire, you'll be burned eventually. That "eventually" can greatly vary in risk though.

Having played for years I can tell you that shots against can be a deceiving stat. I'll take one shot in the slot for every 5 at the point and quality of shot ABSOLUTELY matters. A lot.

I'm discussing his abilities as a player.

It was MY point and I'm discussing benefits to the team.

And, in my opinion, he's average and we would be more successful with a better option there.

1st pairing RD's are very hard to find which is part of his value and part of the reason he could've signed for quite a bit more had he gone UFA. He's getting the same $ as Orpik...

Still wasn't what I was discussing before.

Again, it was MY point about his value to the team.

I mean I really wanted to retain Stralman and if I had it my way I would trade Girardi (if we still had Stralman). But having an opinion on how the team should be changed doesn't correlate to "oooooh shiny new toyz". That would be like making a trade for no purpose other than make a trade. If I suggest a trade or roster move, it's because I think it'll improve the team.

Trade Girardi when? Over the summer after the Final that he just helped you get to? You would've got next to nothing at that point. Did we "trade" Stralman after the season when he wouldn't sign here? No. Hey, I liked Stralman. He just wasn't part of the puzzle here after the season, where we had to address the PP QB situation. Signing Stralman to play the right side isn't the best option, either, for Stralman or the Rangers.

And not for nothing, but Stralman was on our team for 3 years......hardly a shiny new toy.

See above.

The difference between Detroit and the Rangers is that Detroit retained superstar players, while the Rangers are just retaining above average players + Lundqvist and McDonagh. Obvi it's no coincidence Detroit has 4 stanley cups over the span of 11 years.

The Wings try to retain ALL of their players, not just their superstars. Look at their roster over the years and all of the role players that they've kept and kept. It's not just about Datsyuk and Zetterberg. It's also about Cleary and Kronwall.

It's a silly comparison imo.

Comparing the teams that have been the most successful at making the playoffs since the lockout is silly? Okay. It's a metric that most teams use to judge their success. But not you, I guess.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The balance of this team is better with Boyle than Stralman. Klein's defense has replaced Stralman's and we have a renewed powerplay with Boyle on it.

 

[Raspewtin]

I know but every thread has guys saying "no, he is no good because his advanced stats are this and that". It gets a bit old

Your posts about advanced stats being stupid are pretty old too.

The balance of this team is better with Boyle than Stralman. Klein's defense has replaced Stralman's and we have a renewed powerplay with Boyle on it.

Klein's having an excellent year but to say he has replaced Stralman is a total fallacy.

 

[Raspewtin]

I'm not taking anything away from them at all. The point I'm making is that Girardi was a key part of that defense and those statistics regardless of what his Corsi is.

Girardi gets totally outplayed when he's on the ice but he's a key component to winning series'? Because that's essentially what you're saying.

Having played for years I can tell you that shots against can be a deceiving stat. I'll take one shot in the slot for every 5 at the point and quality of shot ABSOLUTELY matters. A lot.

I didn't say it doesn't matter. But in the long run, giving up a lot of shots will result in more goals. Those goals can be anything from perfect shots in the slot, to a flukey bounce.

It was MY point and I'm discussing benefits to the team.

Okay, but Girardi is somehow a better player because he's a good guy? Otherwise, I don't see why this matters.

1st pairing RD's are very hard to find which is part of his value and part of the reason he could've signed for quite a bit more had he gone UFA. He's getting the same $ as Orpik...

Girardi isn't a 1st pairing defenseman in my twisted evil world, and I don't care about the money Orpik is getting. I think Girardi is overpaid now, let alone getting anything more.

Trade Girardi when? Over the summer after the Final that he just helped you get to? You would've got next to nothing at that point. Did we "trade" Stralman after the season when he wouldn't sign here? No. Hey, I liked Stralman. He just wasn't part of the puzzle here after the season, where we had to address the PP QB situation.

Would've traded him before we re-signed him, especially if Sami Vatanen was the piece we would get back, like rumored.

Signing Stralman to play the right side isn't the best option, either, for Stralman or the Rangers.

Why not?

The Wings try to retain ALL of their players, not just their superstars. Look at their roster over the years and all of the role players that they've kept and kept. It's not just about Datsyuk and Zetterberg. It's also about Cleary and Kronwall.

Kronwall is one of the most underrated defensemen in the league so that's not a great example.

And yep, Wings fans are thrilled that totally useless Daniel Cleary, and turnover machine Jonathan Ericsson are still on the team, despite them having done nothing since losing in the SCF in 2009.

Comparing the teams that have been the most successful at making the playoffs since the lockout is silly? Okay. It's a metric that most teams use to judge their success. But not you, I guess.

Comparing the two rosters of players the teams have historically had is silly.

 

[nevesis]

“@PLeonardNYDN: Marc Staal's contract is done. Wait 4 #NYR official release. Report of 6yrs, $34.2M ($5.7per), 3yrs no-move, then modified no-trade accurate”