Marc Bergevin: We want to compete Edition

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BehindTheTimes

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Jun 24, 2018
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Hmm...used to think? Bergevin signed Alzner last year and thought he'd make us better.

You're right, the stay at home big Dman who isn't that good of a skater is an old man's player. However, Tinordi was drafted almost a decade ago. At the time, teams were still using these guys quite a fair bit.
People didn't expect him to develop puck handling abilities. People wanted him to be a better version of O'Byrne. More sound and intelligent defensively, with better skating abilities, strong on the PK and a presence in his end. That's essentially what people were looking at when speaking of Tinordi. It wasn't about puck handling, passing, skating the puck up, or any offensive aspect of the game.

There is no reason to believe he couldn't have become that better version of O'Byrne. The problem is they either put pressure on him, or let him put that pressure himself, on having to fight all the time. He would literally engage in fights like he was an enforcer, from the faceoffs, with no purpose whatsoever. I remember @Whitesnake was particularly vocal about how stupid it was for him to fight all the time and then this happened:


A lot of posters here don't understand development. You speak with them and they think being a good development coach would be turning Galchenyuk into Guy Lafleur or making Jacob De La Rose into Kopitar, and because no coach can obviously do that, well darn, development ain't all that important in the end. It shows how ignorant some posters are.

Development is about proper guidance, leading them towards their potential, that's it in a nutshell. It isn't about sending out a voodoo spell and suddenly making a 4th liner into a 1st one.
For Tinordi, there is no reason to believe he could not have made it as a regular bottom pairing Dman. He might have remained in the NHL for just a handful of seasons considering the shift the league has had, but he could have definitely made it imo.
Had management told Tinordi, forget fighting, it's a dying occurrence in the NHL anyways, instead focus on improving your positioning, work on the ability of cutting down space and directing players into the areas you want them in. Don't waste time practicing balance skills for when you fight or doing boxing lessons. That's time wasted on a completely unimportant aspect of the game and it takes it away from other areas of need. Furthermore, mentally, it is way way way less demanding knowing you don't have to get into scraps where you can get your face bashed in at any moment.


O'Byrne was terrible too, so a better version of O'Byrne was not much better than the current version of Tinordi. Drafting players like Tinordi in the first round is a joke. The pick was horrible and we traded up for it too. His upside was a better O'Byrne lol, I think you've proven my point.

I don't believe he was asked to fight, he was trying to make up for his short-comings as a player. He knew he didn't have the skills to play, so he was trying to get there any way possible (gooning) but usually not doing too well in that aspect either.

Not everyone drafted in the first round is a lock to make the NHL if only they are nurtured and protected well enough by the developmental coaches, some just don't have enough skill to get there. Tinordi never did anything particularly well. The only good thing he had on his side was his height and height is not a skill.
 
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theghost1

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Why the hell would you sign a veteran coach to a long term deal....a veteran goalie to a long term deal...acquire a veteran D-man on a long term deal.....and then do nothing to build around them....do not sign Radulov or Markov a...do not bring in centers....and once again do not spend your cap space.
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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O'Byrne was terrible too, so a better version of O'Byrne was not much better than the current version of Tinordi. Drafting players like Tinordi in the first round is a joke. The pick was horrible and we traded up for it too. His upside was a better O'Byrne lol, I think you've proven my point.
A better version of O'Byrne could have made the NHL.
Hal Gill was a better version, and slower, still managed to play over 1000 games. Yes, I am aware, different era, but I already brought this up. In 2010 the Tinordi types were still popular in the NHL, but they were slowly dying off. As I said, he could have had a regular spot for a handful of years.
You didn't really address anything I brought up about Tinordi's development.
 
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BehindTheTimes

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A better version of O'Byrne could have made the NHL.
Hal Gill was a better version, and slower, still managed to play over 1000 games. Yes, I am aware, different era, but I already brought this up. In 2010 the Tinordi types were still popular in the NHL, but they were slowly dying off. As I said, he could have had a regular spot for a handful of years.
You didn't really address anything I brought up about Tinordi's development.

I didn't really think there was anything to address. We simply disagree, I think our developmental staff has been mostly bad, but I don't/can't blame them on Tinordi, he was never going to amount to anything imo.

I don't care if you think maybe he could have been a bottom pairing guy for a few years. It doesn't take away from the point I was making. Even if he was, who gives a shit about that, is it really a failure that it didn't happen. If the margins are that close then we made a bad pick.
 
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BehindTheTimes

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Why the hell would you sign a veteran coach to a long term deal....a veteran goalie to a long term deal...acquire a veteran D-man on a long term deal.....and then do nothing to build around them....do not sign Radulov or Markov a...do not bring in centers....and once again do not spend your cap space.

He has a plan, he just can't tell you what it is. Imagine if he told you and other GM's heard about this blueprint he put together, the Habs would be in deep trouble. :sarcasm:
 

417

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Feb 20, 2003
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You mean like DD being a midget?
Also, not every critical post about Bergevin is about his appearance. Btw, the more in depth and intelligent discussions about our GMs were happening a few years ago, you were just on the other side of the debate.
I can always tell when your position is weak...that's when you start throwing veiled personal attacks.

I also love how you insinuate that comments about his appearance can be considered "critical" though...just reinforces my point.

Just goes to show you how terribly annoyed people are with the Habs, and rightfully so.
I don't blame them. I think you're missing the point.
I don't blame people either, again, I'm critical of him too.

I just don't look for issues that don't exist to reinforce my position.
 
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DAChampion

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Another article that doesn't look too good on MB. The guy seems like a total *****e towards his players. I've never been Pacioretty biggest fan but how can you expect a good lockeroom when you're an *******.

Bergevin a ignoré Pacioretty pendant des mois

For those who don't read French, this article is critical of MB and mostly recycles known content. However, there is one piece of information that I had not heard about before:

Paul Statsny was considering the Habs. He contacted his friend Max Pacioretty one he found out that he would not be staying with the Winnipeg Jets, and then decided not to negotiate with the Habs. The unclear sentence is as follows:
Il a décidé de regarder ailleurs quand Pacioretty l’a informé qu’il ignorait son propre statut avec l’équipe en marge de la prochaine saison.

Any volunteers to elaborate on what that means?
 

DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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I strongly doubt that. As good as Tavares is, he's not on McDavid level. CM will bring a cup to Edmonton, or at least lead them to Finals, top 4.

McDavid is already a top-two player in the world, and he's not leading the Oilers to much at all.
 

GordonGraham

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Sep 12, 2009
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For those who don't read French, this article is critical of MB and mostly recycles known content. However, there is one piece of information that I had not heard about before:

Paul Statsny was considering the Habs. He contacted his friend Max Pacioretty one he found out that he would not be staying with the Winnipeg Jets, and then decided not to negotiate with the Habs. The unclear sentence is as follows:
Il a décidé de regarder ailleurs quand Pacioretty l’a informé qu’il ignorait son propre statut avec l’équipe en marge de la prochaine saison.

Any volunteers to elaborate on what that means?

It means

He decided to look elsewhere when Pacioretty informed him that he knew nothing about his own status with the club for the upcoming season
 

DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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It means

He decided to look elsewhere when Pacioretty informed him that he knew nothing about his own status with the club for the upcoming season

I got that, but I'm not sure I believe it. Among other things, how could Pacioretty possibly know, given that the negotiation period would only begin on July 1st? Or by upcoming season, did they mean 2019 rather than 2020?
 

Belial

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Oct 22, 2014
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I don't know where exactly to post this but this is more important than all this BargainBin bickering.

This city needs this machine yesterday!

 
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Cobra Commander

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Sep 30, 2017
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I don't know where exactly to post this but this is more important than all this BargainBin bickering.

This city needs this machine yesterday!


It would be great but it would take away many jobs. Either way something has to be done, we need at least two to three times more efficiency at getting the potholes fixed.
 

BehindTheTimes

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Jun 24, 2018
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I got that, but I'm not sure I believe it. Among other things, how could Pacioretty possibly know, given that the negotiation period would only begin on July 1st? Or by upcoming season, did they mean 2019 rather than 2020?
I think it's highly likely that Pacioretty and his Agent had an understanding of where this was all heading prior to 1 July.
 
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